All-Purpose Scout 80 Build - Page 6 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > International Harvester
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2014, 01:42 PM   #126 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Sully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Member # 12121
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 3,735
Send a message via MSN to Sully Send a message via Yahoo to Sully
Quote:
Originally Posted by just4cuz View Post
That is the way they used to do the dual rear shocks on the Stroppe Broncos.
Between the tire and frame. For the upper frame mount they used an old Ford pickup upper mount. It had a triangular shaped base with the shock shaft built into it. Originally they are riveted to the inside of the Ford pickup frame. I think the mount was the same from around 65 to 79. Stroppe turned them around and mounted them on the outside of the frame rail.
I have a couple and can send a picture if needed.
Is there room between the tub and the top of the frame to put an early Jeep upper shock mount in there? It looks tight from the pictures and the body has that lip that drops down below the top of the frame.
Why am I having such a hard time visualizing that?
__________________
[COLOR=skyblue]Live Free or Die[/COLOR]
[COLOR=BLACK]Why is mankind the only species that attempts to preserve the shallow end of its gene pool?[/COLOR]
Sully is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2014, 07:00 PM   #127 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Member # 207565
Location: Pasco WA
Posts: 92
There's maybe 3/4" between the bottom of the bed and the frame so long as you aren't at one of the floor braces. With the support rail that hangs down it'd be a pain to get anything through it without cutting the support away.

Since you're looking at angling the shocks if you go inside the frame what about moving your hoops back and making a mount that allows you to angle them and be on the outside? Would that let you keep the long shocks?

Are you staunchly opposed to cutting the body? I know you didn't want to poke up through the bed but what about a little bump out in the side. You could then have your mounts move over about an inch (width of the support rail) and be even with the outside of the frame. It'd probably end up close to where the seat would hide it and with some sheet metal work you'd hardly know it was there. Might not be worth it though is it appears the shock body may be too long at full stuff anyhow.
__________________
1967 "Scout 800" 4cy Isuzu Diesel, 4L80E, NP241 D44/D60

Last edited by Pascoscout; 12-02-2014 at 07:10 PM.
Pascoscout is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 12-02-2014, 07:43 PM   #128 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
why not put the shock behind the rear axle, but outboard of the frame? As its the top portion of the tire that is contacting the the shock, if you moved rearward, would it clear? Could tilt the top of the shock back some to clear. Basically put it just rearward of where your tube for the mount is, and use the ford upper shock brackets if the tube style you are making wont work


best pics i have of what I am talking about


1961 International Scout 800 Rear 4 Link picture | SuperMotors.net

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2014, 08:12 PM   #129 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Harvester of Sorrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Member # 11615
Location: In the recording studio
Posts: 3,217
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to Harvester of Sorrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoDave View Post
Not doing wheel spacers. Looking at them as an engineer they are basically an exercise in how much of a stress concentration you can design into a part - no thanks. If anything I'd find some wheels that have less backspacing, but these are already pretty minimal.

Wider axles would make a lot of things easier for sure, but its not what I want to do for now. The rear is spring under, so the spring pack is already hanging down below the axle. I agree that its not ideal to have shock mounts below, but I don't feel like I am giving up THAT much in terms of clearance. The setup I drew is ~2" below the axle.

A friend suggested running the short Bilsteins on roughly the same mounting location but outside the frame, which is a good idea. Might be low enough that the upper mount misses the tire as it arcs in, and I'd rather have something hanging down next to the tire than next to the differential. I'm going to mock that up and see how it looks.
I hear ya...I was just curious. I too dislike spacers...but was just thinking that it was the lesser of the evils.

If you tucked your mounts flush to the body...as it looks like in one of you mock-up photos you have about 3/8" gap) and put the shock to the rear of the axle on a small angle rearward....would you clear?

The stability afforded by outboarding the shocks is completely worth the extra look.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Harvester of Sorrow is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2014, 10:38 PM   #130 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
I took some more pictures tonight to show what I'm working around right now, hopefully it makes it a bit clearer. The top shock mount is 6" behind the axle centerline - it could definitely be moved back more but the tire will still hit the shock hoop unless I move it a lot, in which case I'll end up with worse angles on the shocks than putting them under the bed.





Here's how the spacing of the shock hoop to the inner fender sit right now - obviously just mocked up. There's ~1/2" between the hoop and the inner fender right now, I'll probably bring that in some.


I'm going to cut off my tacks and move the hoop down so that the shock mount is around where the top of the frame is, and see how that works. At that point it'll just be sidewall to hoop clearance that I need to check out.

The 10" short body Bilstein shock is a full 6" shorter than the 12" Fox (and 2" shorter than a 10" fox shock) at the middle of travel, so it should make packaging easier. If I can fit the 10" Fox I do have the option of buying bodies and shafts and rebuilding mine into 10" shocks, which would be nice.

Working around that flange on the bottom of the inner fender is pretty annoying, I may just notch it out around where the shock mounts want to go.

Doing a mini-tub in the fenders isn't out of the question, but I'll see where this goes first. I could go about 1 1/2" narrower per side and still fit the TJ rear seat I'm planning to use. Frame might have to be notched as well, which i'm not crazy about.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2014, 12:41 AM   #131 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
you have a few options.
1.make a wider hoop that the tire can tuck into.
2.if making a rear cage section, make a spreader between C and D posts that would mount to the top of the inner fender. Then use a piece of plate on the bottom of the inner fender and use that as your upper shock mount. It owuld require hardmonting the body, but might solve your issue.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2014, 10:43 AM   #132 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by plug ugly View Post
you have a few options.
1.make a wider hoop that the tire can tuck into.
2.if making a rear cage section, make a spreader between C and D posts that would mount to the top of the inner fender. Then use a piece of plate on the bottom of the inner fender and use that as your upper shock mount. It owuld require hardmonting the body, but might solve your issue.
With the shock mount high like it is, unless the axle gets wider the tire will contact the shock even if its hard up against the inner fender. Cant move it far enough backward (within reason) to avoid it. I think the solution is to get the shock mount lower so its inside the arc of the tire as it travels, which I should be able to do and keep the shocks outboard of the frame.\

Have not decided 100% on how I want to do the cage, but tying into the shock mounts is a good idea especially in the front to tie them together.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2014, 10:35 PM   #133 (permalink)
Registered User
 
just4cuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Member # 98655
Location: Alta Loma, Ca.
Posts: 2,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoDave View Post
I came across these a while ago, same idea?
Rear Double Shock Mounts - WILD HORSES Early Ford Bronco Parts
Stupid engineer in me doesn't like shocks mounted in single shear.

You got it right, there's a flange that overhangs the frame rail. I don't remember if there's much space between the frame rail and the body but I don't think so.
Yes that's exactly what I was referring to.
just4cuz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2014, 10:39 PM   #134 (permalink)
Registered User
 
just4cuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Member # 98655
Location: Alta Loma, Ca.
Posts: 2,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully View Post
Why am I having such a hard time visualizing that?
Gee Sully, I don't know, but Dave got it and it's his Scout.
just4cuz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2015, 10:38 AM   #135 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Gotta love those projects you spend a ton of time on for what seems like something stupid simple.

So after about 4 iterations, some on the computer and some in metal, here's where I ended up. I finally conceded that cutting the body flange that hangs down over the frame was the way to go, it gains me over an inch of clearance between the shock body and tire where I really need it most. I'll make a bolt on piece to cover the opening on the inside of the tub, and allow me access to the nut on the backside of the shock mount. The lower mount hangs down from the axle which isn't perfect, but its less than the thickness of the spring pack, and it is tucked next to the tire. I hope its not too much of a rock anchor.

To head off the comments, the shock in the pictures is a 12" travel shock, set at the length of the 10" version at ride height (50% of travel). I'm ordering a new body and shaft to rebuild them into 10" versions, rather than buying new Bilstein shocks as i said earlier.






With the axle articulated as much as I think it will, there's 1/2" between the shock eyelet and the tire sidewall. I think a rear disc conversion will push the wheel mounting face outboard a bit more which will help.


The bolt will be replaced with a flange head version that will allow the shock spherical to articulate without binding on the hex head. There's a spacer between the mount and eye that I can tweak to fine tune the spacing a bit more.

Glad to be done with this part and I can move onto other things. Next up will be lifting the body off the frame somehow, finish welding all the suspension bracketry, and generally cleaning up the frame and underside of the tub. Then assembly can finally start for good.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2015, 02:10 PM   #136 (permalink)
Addicted to Gear Oil
 
guidolyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56050
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 5,832
Motodave- looking good, your PS box mount looks like mine. I used F250 front shock mounts front and rear for mine, but my axles are wider (fool sized D60/14BFF) so I don't have tire clearance issues. The fronts are stock length, but I added about 3" in length to the rear mounts that bolts to a C-channel bracket to clear the bed channel. Top eye on the shock sits about 1/4" from the inner fender.

Name:  20140824_180812b.jpg
Views: 1423
Size:  60.1 KB
__________________
1965 Scout 80 7.3PSD/ZF/203/205 D60F/14BFF
Member: 4 Jackstand Wheeler's Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Dwight D. Eisenhower
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by guidolyons; 01-20-2015 at 02:12 PM.
guidolyons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2015, 02:26 PM   #137 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Yup, wider axles would have made pretty much everything on this a ton easier, but I'm stubborn
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2015, 01:06 PM   #138 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by plug ugly View Post
How do those bump stops work out?

I keep getting recommended some rubber ones off a pathfinder, but I cant find a source for them other than junkyards, and I haven't had time to make it to ours.

I'm calling the rear shock mounts done for now. Everything clears when I cycle it as much as I can with a floor jack in the garage, we'll just have to see how they do in the real world.

The pictures don't look much different, but I remade the upper mounts using 3/16" plate, and configured them so I have more room for a washer and lock nut on the backside of the bung.







Yes there's rust


The mounts ended up ~1.5" inside of the body, I'll make some cover plates that can be removed for access to the nut. Hex head bolt will be replaced with a flange bolt, and the length will be such that no thread is inside the bung, i.e. proper grip length to avoid a shear load on a threaded section of bolt. It as good as I can make a single shear mount in this case.

The tire cycles about 6" of bump for 5" of shaft travel due to the angle of the shock, which I'm happy with. Droop doesn't seem great with these springs (56" Chevy) but we'll see how it does in the rear world. A custom spring pack is likely once I figure out what exactly I need.

I think I'm close to pulling the body off the frame, or at least lifting it up enough to get to all the welds that need finishing on the top side. I'm going to deal with the surface rust on the tub, as well as the frame at the same time. Not really looking forward to grinding/sanding/painting, but at least it'll be a change of pace.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2015, 01:36 PM   #139 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
i ended up going a different route with chevy pickup rear bumps. Cheap at like 7 bucks a piece through rock auto, and a little simpler to mount. So far Im happy with it. Its not super awesome air bumps, but helps a lot.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2015, 02:48 PM   #140 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Member # 483882
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA USA
Posts: 82
Looks like a fun build!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USE CODE: PIRATE4X4 FOR 10% SAVINGS ON YOUR NEXT ORDER!!!
EMAIL:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/ PHONE: 805-783-2060


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
//
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
//
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PolyPerformance is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2015, 05:48 PM   #141 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyPerformance View Post
Looks like a fun build!
Thanks, its got a bunch of your parts on it
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 06:25 PM   #142 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Anyone have a lead on a 1 1/8" bore master cylinder meant to mount on an angle?

I'm sorting out the mounting for the hydroboost setup, and to clear the inner fender I need to angle the whole deal upward. Not a big deal, but so far all the master cylinders I'm finding with angled reservoirs are 1" and smaller mustang stuff.

I'm slowly making progress on the rest of this stuff, hope to have an update worth sharing soon.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 06:32 PM   #143 (permalink)
Rock God
 
jemarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member # 50690
Location: Rainier, OR
Posts: 1,266
Send a message via MSN to jemarshall
I used the hydra boost and MC out of a 96 chevy 3500. If you cut and angle your mounting plate to sit flat it will fit without hitting. My biggest suggestion would be to get the bolt on the pedal as high or higher than stock by making the MC as flat as possible. I didn't and the extra leverage it has will 4 corner lock the stock drum brakes so fast is almost scarry.

You can see what I am taling about here.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/inter...out-800-a.html
__________________
For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
What ever you do, please do not suck start a shot gun.

Stick it up your ass...that way you're likely to hit something vital.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jemarshall is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 06:42 PM   #144 (permalink)
Registered User
 
binderbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Member # 18592
Location: Redmond, Oregon
Posts: 3,793
Send a message via AIM to binderbound
Don't astro vans have 90* brackets? Or maybe that's the full size vans, I can't recall. Can you live with it pointing at the valve cover?

BTW, still live this build and can't wait to see it in person on the trail some day.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
binderbound is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 06:53 PM   #145 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jemarshall View Post
I used the hydra boost and MC out of a 96 chevy 3500. If you cut and angle your mounting plate to sit flat it will fit without hitting. My biggest suggestion would be to get the bolt on the pedal as high or higher than stock by making the MC as flat as possible. I didn't and the extra leverage it has will 4 corner lock the stock drum brakes so fast is almost scarry.

You can see what I am taling about here.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/inter...out-800-a.html
Scout 800 inner fenders look to be a few inches lower than the 80's, or I would do that. I also looked at notching or lowering the top of the inner fender but the master cylinder would hit the shock tower. Good planning there, genius.

I'm working up the calcs for the pedal ratio I want, I'll take that into consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binderbound View Post
Don't astro vans have 90* brackets? Or maybe that's the full size vans, I can't recall. Can you live with it pointing at the valve cover?

BTW, still live this build and can't wait to see it in person on the trail some day.
If I point it toward the engine it runs into the steering column, away from the engine is the clutch MC. Tilting it up is really the easiest answer, it won't be a big deal to modify the mounting plate. Option #2 is to build a bellcrank setup that raises the HB and MC ~3", but it won't be an insignificant amout of work and its a lot more complex.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 08:02 PM   #146 (permalink)
Registered User
 
binderbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Member # 18592
Location: Redmond, Oregon
Posts: 3,793
Send a message via AIM to binderbound
Early broncos go 45* I think. Any better?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
binderbound is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 08:50 PM   #147 (permalink)
Addicted to Gear Oil
 
guidolyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56050
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 5,832
Chop the shit out of the mounting plate and sink the HB into firewall a little bit.
__________________
1965 Scout 80 7.3PSD/ZF/203/205 D60F/14BFF
Member: 4 Jackstand Wheeler's Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Dwight D. Eisenhower
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
guidolyons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2015, 09:44 PM   #148 (permalink)
Rock God
 
jemarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member # 50690
Location: Rainier, OR
Posts: 1,266
Send a message via MSN to jemarshall
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidolyons View Post
Chop the shit out of the mounting plate and sink the HB into firewall a little bit.
This, just move it in as far as you need too, there should be more than enough shaft on the HB that you can shorten it up to compensate
__________________
For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
What ever you do, please do not suck start a shot gun.

Stick it up your ass...that way you're likely to hit something vital.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jemarshall is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-14-2015, 09:59 AM   #149 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member # 137726
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidolyons View Post
Chop the shit out of the mounting plate and sink the HB into firewall a little bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jemarshall View Post
This, just move it in as far as you need too, there should be more than enough shaft on the HB that you can shorten it up to compensate
I'll lay it out today, not sure that's going to work though. Ill try to get some pictures to show the issues better.
MotoDave is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-14-2015, 10:14 AM   #150 (permalink)
Rock God
 
jemarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member # 50690
Location: Rainier, OR
Posts: 1,266
Send a message via MSN to jemarshall
This is a pic from before i recessed the bottom to level it. Thought I had one from after but cant find it. I did have to shorten the shaft a little more but there was still allot left hat could have been taken out if needed.

__________________
For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
What ever you do, please do not suck start a shot gun.

Stick it up your ass...that way you're likely to hit something vital.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jemarshall is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.