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Old 07-31-2016, 10:22 PM   #151 (permalink)
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I finally got off my ass and ruffed in the rear mounts today before work. Took me longer to get to it than I wanted, but there was crap that just kept getting in the way. On top of that, I cant find the second bag of misalignment spacers, it was on the cowl area of the tub and it has totally up and disappeared, so I had to pull the ones out of the front to use for moch up on the rear. Going to order a full set of 5/8" ones instead of the 1/2" ones I got with the ORI's, and then add weld washers to all the boltholes to re-enforce them anyways. I did get the dual fill rig made up last week and picked up two 40 chf bottles for $50 so I should be good to go on that for a while. . Now I need to start filling some of the cage and getting it lined out, hoping that the momentum sill pick up a little bit now.







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Old 08-01-2016, 08:38 AM   #152 (permalink)
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nice toes.
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Old 08-01-2016, 02:39 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Ain't they sessy.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:24 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Looks good.

One note: Your rear struts should be angled in at the top. This will prevent the spring rate from going negative when flexed out. if you run them straight up and the axle flexes the strut will start loosing spring rate and will make the rig kinda flop around. You want the strut vertical and fully compressed when the other side of the axle is at full droop.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:24 AM   #155 (permalink)
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Looks good.

One note: Your struts should be mounted angled in at the top. This will prevent the spring rate from going negative when flexed out. if you run them straight up and the axle flexes the strut will start loosing spring rate and will make the rig kinda flop around. You want the strut vertical and fully compressed when the other side of the axle is at full droop.
In your front flex pics you can see what I am talking about. Once the struct is past vertical and leaning outward it is no longer holding that side up and the rig will flop.

Last edited by 01BlackOffroad; 08-03-2016 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 08-04-2016, 01:28 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01BlackOffroad View Post
Looks good.

One note: Your struts should be mounted angled in at the top. This will prevent the spring rate from going negative when flexed out. if you run them straight up and the axle flexes the strut will start loosing spring rate and will make the rig kinda flop around. You want the strut vertical and fully compressed when the other side of the axle is at full droop.
In your front flex pics you can see what I am talking about. Once the struct is past vertical and leaning outward it is no longer holding that side up and the rig will flop.
ya, I have mulled that over to no end, I run into a issue with the amount of room I have. If I was running full width axles, I would have 3" per side to push the lower mounts out.

thread for reference
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...en-flexed.html

In the front I am pretty much stuck with what I have. I got the misalignment spacers in yesterday and was finally able to get the rear flexed to check how it did and the clearances. I am going to be able to move the rear upper mounts in about 2.5 inches which will help there allot, but still not be perfect.

It's kinda hard to see here, but in this pic, the outer coupler pieces on the cross tube are where the upper mounts would have to be i order to get them to 90 deg and full bump. It's a total of 9" in the front. There is just too much in the way. its not so much where it would be on the compressed side, but where the shocks would end up on the extended side I run into the problem.







Here are the rear clearances. the string in the one pic shows where it would make contact with the frame. I have about 2.5 inches to move it over, which will also give me some more clearance on the tire side. To get them to the 90 deg point they would have to move over 8.5"

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/...psupkwtpvy.jpg






Any ideas would be very welcome.
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:25 PM   #157 (permalink)
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I see you have already looked in to this. With the struts mounted at 90 at ride height the rig will flop over on the smallest incline. You defiantly want to get some angle on the struts. The front is almost always constrained by the axle/knuckle and the frame.

I would look in to notching the frame and in-boarding the upper mounts. Have you thought about brackets that go up and out over the knuckles? Possibly move the lowers out 2-3" front and rear like that.Looks like you have the room to move the upper mount up and not have to change much. Some mount the shock/strut to the steering arm to help with this issue.
Check out the pic in this thread for mounting over the knuckle.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...0-knuckle.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...knuckle-2.html

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Old 08-05-2016, 12:25 AM   #158 (permalink)
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Well thanks I was planning on going to sleep over an hour ago.

Thanks for the links, that had never even crossed my mind. I had decided before not to notch the frame because it wouldn't give me enough in of itself to help, but the farther out the bottoms are, the more it would help. Reading into that, I am going to have to go sit and stare at it with a tape measure, a jack and coke, and with the music turne all the way up some more.

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Old 08-05-2016, 10:56 AM   #159 (permalink)
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I am going to have to go sit and stare at it with a tape measure, a jack and coke, and with the music turne all the way up some more.

I prefer Gentleman straight for my thinkin sits..........

Great work so far, someday after we move I will have the room to do what I want.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:28 AM   #160 (permalink)
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I prefer Gentleman straight for my thinkin sits..........

Great work so far, someday after we move I will have the room to do what I want.
I usually just pick up black label, but the other day the store was having a sale on the GJ with glasses for $15 a piece. There are now a couple bottles of GJ sitting on ice in the freezer. I had to stop drinking it straight a while back, to shitty to fast.

I was sipping some of the Sherry Wood from Westland Distillery up in Seattle the other night sitting around a nice fire. Some really good whisky.

Westland Distillery ? Thoughtfully Made



On the lower mounts side of things, I am really not liking the idea of mounting to the steering arm. Not that its a bad location, but with my arms I cant seem to figure out how I would be able to do it with getting around the 5 mounting bolts and not covering up the adjuster for the spring less conversion and the grease zerk. Making a mount that extends up over it also seems like it would be in the way of removing the steering arm when I needed to. Still got allot of thinking to do on it though.
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:45 PM   #161 (permalink)
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I had to stop drinking it straight a while back, to shitty to fast.

I was sipping some of the Sherry Wood from Westland Distillery up in Seattle the other night sitting around a nice fire. Some really good whisky.

Westland Distillery ? Thoughtfully Made

GJ is "SIPPIN" whiskey...........your sposed to take your time with it!

My kid turned me on to Pendleton whiskey when I was in Oregon....pretty good stuff.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:30 PM   #162 (permalink)
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are our frames the same width? Im trying to wrap my head around whats different between us. My upper shock mounts are inboarded as compared to yours I think, but mine dont 'invert' like that.....


just went back and looked, and mine are not tilted in more. Is your axle shorter? frame wider? Just the difference between the 3 and 4 link?
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Last edited by plug ugly; 08-05-2016 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:51 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Off the top of my head, Scout II and 800 frames are the same. My axles are not full width. I am running a C&C 14 bolt and narrowed the front 60 to match it at 63", so you have about 3" per side for width over mine.

Right now, I think I am going to get the rears finished up and out of the way while thinking on the front. I am not opposed to notching the frame, its just not something I wanted to do to get the tops moved over that little bit, wouldn't help as much as moving the bottoms out. I am pretty sure I can do it, I was just not paying much attention to that issue. I had honestly forgotten about them needing to be at a 90 deg angle until it was brought back up, was thinking only of keeping them off the tires. I can get them moved out, I just have to come up with a way that I can honestly accept and live with.

Will see what I can do a little at a time over the next couple of days. My next day off isn't until next Friday, and the wife and her sister left for NM last night for a family issue, so our kids and the SIL are all at my house until they get back around Wednesday. When I get home, the oldest is probably going to take off running from them to try and save her sanity. I do need to get this section finished up pretty quick though, I have to get the 800 in and take care of a few issues so it is ready to go on the trip, and then she wants it in NM with her......
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Old 08-06-2016, 01:27 AM   #164 (permalink)
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This is defiantly the right time to sit back with the measuring tape and a notepad. You fab work looks great, would hate to see you have to hack it all up down the road. I would not worry about the struts breaking over as much if you still had leafs in the rear. With struts all around the flop will be more noticeable.

While 1-2" does not seem like much to move a shock mount it will make a huge difference.
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:15 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Got a little time to play with it last night, this is what I have for the lower rear mounts for now, I cant get them out farther without going up more, and I really need to keep them down as much as possible. This will end up having me within about a quarter of an inch of the brake bracket and will move the bottoms out 2.5 inches. I got them cut out with the plasma last night and will see if I can get them cleaned up and tacked in place tonight.





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Old 08-06-2016, 08:40 AM   #166 (permalink)
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Looks good. Get those tacked up and check your angles. Think that will help a lot with the stability of the rig.
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:00 AM   #167 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01BlackOffroad View Post
This is defiantly the right time to sit back with the measuring tape and a notepad. You fab work looks great, would hate to see you have to hack it all up down the road. I would not worry about the struts breaking over as much if you still had leafs in the rear. With struts all around the flop will be more noticeable.

While 1-2" does not seem like much to move a shock mount it will make a huge difference.
Thanks. Its killing me how long this is taking. Its all I can do just to not start throwing everything at it just to get it done.

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Looks good. Get those tacked up and check your angles. Think that will help a lot with the stability of the rig.
Thanks
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:13 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Lowers cleaned up and in, uppers are plasma cut. I have to stay up late tomorrow so I should easily be able to get them cleaned up, tacked in and get it flexed to check clearances.

Showing where they should be with the upper mounts





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Old 08-06-2016, 11:38 PM   #169 (permalink)
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The lowers look good. Still room on the lowers to drill for adjustable positions. I'm ready to see it flexed out in the rear with the new mounts.

I didn't see it in the thread, what length ORI's are those?
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:54 AM   #170 (permalink)
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14's
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Old 08-07-2016, 09:45 AM   #171 (permalink)
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Jon, one of the things I am really struggling with is how much original structure I kept. Granted I think my intent was a little more tame than what yours is, but what about just back halfing it? Hell, cut the front off also. Its going to be a lot easier now and will fix all of your clearance probs on your struts.
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:34 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Jon, one of the things I am really struggling with is how much original structure I kept. Granted I think my intent was a little more tame than what yours is, but what about just back halfing it? Hell, cut the front off also. Its going to be a lot easier now and will fix all of your clearance probs on your struts.
I really don't have a good answer to this besides I don't want to . Originally I was envisioning there being some more to the need for using more of the original frame, not so much right now. I think I am going to be good on the rear of it now, the front I really don't know yet. Even If I move the lowers out to directly over the king pin they wont clear the frame without some notching. Loosing some of the front frame is an option, I just have to figure out how I am going to make it work with how I had the radiator mounts and everything I had already been figuring out in my head.
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:49 PM   #173 (permalink)
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going over the kingpin will be a pita if you need to adjust shims or pull the knuckles off. You will have to support the frame and drop the axle. that doesnt sound like much fun if you ever had to do a booney fix.

just get some 2x3 by 12" or so, weld it on the inside of the frame, and then notch out what hits the strut. I cant explain it any better but could explain better on the phone or via pic.
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Last edited by plug ugly; 08-07-2016 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 08-07-2016, 01:20 PM   #174 (permalink)
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going over the kingpin will be a pita if you need to adjust shims or pull the knuckles off. You will have to support the frame and drop the axle. that doesnt sound like much fun if you ever had to do a booney fix.

just get some 2x3 by 12" or so, weld it on the inside of the frame, and then notch out what hits the strut. I cant explain it any better but could explain better on the phone or via pic.
Ya, I really don't like the idea of mounting over the knuckles, especially since even doing that I would still probably have to notch the frame. The box inside the frame is where I am at now, I am just trying to figure out of I just want to carry the narrowed section all the way forward, or just notch a sort section where I need it. I really cant move the lowers on the front any farther out because they only have about a 1/4" of clearance right now at full lock, so anything I do will have to be at the top. That is going to start making it very tight up there though.
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Old 08-07-2016, 01:27 PM   #175 (permalink)
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it does get tight. Clearances I had, I no longer have. My crank now hits my truss at full stuff, requiring me to pull the axle and mod the truss.



I havent done it yet.





I would create as much room as possible now, when its easy to see.
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