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Full width or not?

1K views 24 replies 13 participants last post by  NotQuiteSane 
#1 ·
I've been having a tough time with a decision, and need opinions.

right now my 78 is stock, more or less. I'd like to do a SOA on it. now I know that cross over steering would be the best choice, but that isn't in my budget right now.

also, this is my daily driver, not hard core rig, so I'm shooting for 33's, and using it on moderate trails.

I see 3 ways of going. one is to SOA the stock axles. add in some fender trimming, and i should be ok. my drag link is bent, so I was gonna chop 6" or so off either end, have a tube bent, slip the ends in and weld. this would probably be cheapest.

option 2 is to take the 6 lug chevy I have, narrow it, and use scout outters and shafts. this one is a wash. I don't have to grind a perch, but I do have to narrow it.

option 3, and I'm really leaning this way, is to put the scout knuckles on the chevy front, then go find a 5 x 5.5 rear of approxamently the same width and regear one or both.

so whats the best choice?

NQS
 
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#2 ·
if you do soa on the scout axles youll have to cut and turn it, which is a pain in the ass, and 33's will look small on a soa application which everyway you go , My suggestion is find a 14 bolt for the rear or dana 60 and use the six lug for the front, parts will be cheaper and the pinion angle wont be as jacked up. Find tires off of ebay motors or here on the pbb. eitehr way you go there will be grinding and welding and youll be much happyier with wider longer springs.
 
#3 ·
SnowScoutII said:
if you do soa on the scout axles youll have to cut and turn it, which is a pain in the ass, and 33's will look small on a soa application which everyway you go , My suggestion is find a 14 bolt for the rear or dana 60 and use the six lug for the front, parts will be cheaper and the pinion angle wont be as jacked up. Find tires off of ebay motors or here on the pbb. eitehr way you go there will be grinding and welding and youll be much happyier with wider longer springs.
Wait, are you saying keep the front 6 lug, then find a matching rear? I considered that, but how do i deal with steering? The only way i can think on the cheap side is either swap steering boxes or connect the drag link to the tie rod.

I'm half way through pulling the passengers knuckle off, got stopped by the hub nut. socket I borrowed is for a 60.

I think I can get the most with a full width. I don't care how it looks, more how it works.

trimmed some fat earlier today:



NQS
 
#4 ·
if you dont have access to a hub nut socket, you can ust a screwdriver and hammer to turn it by hitting the socket right before the point of the hex, and drive it around.

but this is not good to do constantly, as you knarl up the nut and you cant measure torque when putting them on.

i hope you dont really think you are halfway done getting the knuckle off and youre just at the hub nut.

im guessing the chevy fron you have is a D44 or a 10 bolt from a 1/2 ton?

there isnt really a matching rear axle, unless you get another 44, 10 bolt or 12 bolt

if it were me, and i were wanting to do it cheap, id forget the whole bolt pattern thing, and get whatever rear i find, then get some junkyard wheels for front and rear
 
#5 ·
offroader1006 said:
if you dont have access to a hub nut socket, you can ust a screwdriver and hammer to turn it by hitting the socket right before the point of the hex, and drive it around.

but this is not good to do constantly, as you knarl up the nut and you cant measure torque when putting them on.
Wait, are we talking about the same part? round nut with 4 slots in it?

i hope you dont really think you are halfway done getting the knuckle off and youre just at the hub nut.
well, more or less half way. if I picked up the socket, I don't think it would take that much longer. besides, I need to fix my transmission before I can actually do any thing.

im guessing the chevy fron you have is a D44 or a 10 bolt from a 1/2 ton?
blazer. I think 44, but looking at the pictures over on CK5, I'm not 100% sure. i need to print them out and bring that to the axle

there isnt really a matching rear axle, unless you get another 44, 10 bolt or 12 bolt
What about a 9" or 8 3/4"? I'm sure a 9" would work. and they're fairly common. if I use the scout knuckles/hubs it would match. I'd like to find one thats close to the front width and decently geared.

if it were me, and i were wanting to do it cheap, id forget the whole bolt pattern thing, and get whatever rear i find, then get some junkyard wheels for front and rear [/B]
2 bolt patterns? i've considered it. could use a adapter, or carry a plug kit and tire irons.

NQS
 
#7 ·
offroader1006 said:
if you dont have access to a hub nut socket, you can ust a screwdriver and hammer to turn it by hitting the socket right before the point of the hex, and drive it around.

but this is not good to do constantly, as you knarl up the nut and you cant measure torque when putting them on.

i hope you dont really think you are halfway done getting the knuckle off and youre just at the hub nut.

im guessing the chevy fron you have is a D44 or a 10 bolt from a 1/2 ton?

there isnt really a matching rear axle, unless you get another 44, 10 bolt or 12 bolt

if it were me, and i were wanting to do it cheap, id forget the whole bolt pattern thing, and get whatever rear i find, then get some junkyard wheels for front and rear
I guess you have never seen a Jeep J truck with 5 lugs, or a fullsize IH 1/2 ton. I think Ford made a few rear ends with 5x5.5, their pretty rare though:flipoff2:
 
#8 ·
Wait, are we talking about the same part? round nut with 4 slots in it?
maybe not, i was thinking of the hub nuts the ih use

I guess you have never seen a Jeep J truck with 5 lugs, or a fullsize IH 1/2 ton. I think Ford made a few rear ends with 5x5.5, their pretty rare though
he's got a 6 lug full width front. not a 5 lug

i was saying there arent many matching(stronger than the front) rears with 6 lug pattern, for the rear i would go 3/4 ton or bigger, and 6 lug is only 1/2 ton.

as for the fords with 5x5.5, ive heard of a guy whos known a guy who 's dad had one:flipoff2:
 
#11 ·
For 33's you could use a 14 semi float rear with your 6 lug front. Should be able to find one for $100 or less.

Most people that start out with 33's end up going bigger so maybe you should sell your current axles and buy a 8 lug dana 44 flat top front and a 14 bolt FF rear. Shouldn't be too much trouble to find a front 44 for under $300. The rear will run $100.
 
#14 ·
I would recommend a fullsize IH half ton rear, or an f150 9inch out back if you want to keep the 5on5.5 pattern, Some 75 half ton IH's came with a SF rear 60, but it runs d44 shafts. If you want to run the six lug shiat, I would go for a 12bolt ot a 6 lug SF 14 bolt (available in some Light duty 2500 chev's) For 33's I think that half ton stuff will stand up quite well.
As far as steering goes, I would try to keep the z link as a temparary setup, meaning that you either need to go with the chevy knuckles (if they are flat tops),can be re drilled to take scout 8 bolt spindles, or find a pair of IH fullsize knuckles. This kinda points in the direction of going six lug to save $$ (IF the knuckles are flat tops and IF you care about matching lug patterns and IF you eventually want to dich the z link)
HTH
Dan
 
#15 ·
Hammerlock said:
For 33's you could use a 14 semi float rear with your 6 lug front. Should be able to find one for $100 or less.

Most people that start out with 33's end up going bigger so maybe you should sell your current axles and buy a 8 lug dana 44 flat top front and a 14 bolt FF rear. Shouldn't be too much trouble to find a front 44 for under $300. The rear will run $100.
I realize 33 is a bit "short" by local standards, and I may go higher later. but as I orginally said, this is not for hard core wheeling. I'm building the 800 for that. i want to be able to do 3 rated and easier trails with it. the 800 will be built for 3+ and better.

my big problem with keeping the 6 lug is steering. it looks like $2-300 in parts to convert it. I do plan on this upgrade, but it's not gonna happen soon.

as to sales, I approached Donnelly about trading my front housing and 304 for a SD33 runner. he was acceptive, but had no runners, but i'd like to keep that open. but I might end up selling the axles to some jeeper to finance my engine swap.

NQS
 
#16 ·
Klasick68 said:
I would recommend a fullsize IH half ton rear, or an f150 9inch out back if you want to keep the 5on5.5 pattern, [/quote

I'm also looking at 69-75 dodge 8 3/4" axles.

For 33's I think that half ton stuff will stand up quite well.
thats my thought too. with a diesel up front and not being stupid, I probably could do 35's with half ton axles

As far as steering goes, I would try to keep the z link as a temparary setup,
that is the plan

(IF the knuckles are flat tops and IF you care about matching lug patterns and IF you eventually want to dich the z link)
HTH
Dan [/B]
not flat top, otherwise I'd have gone that way. I will likely see what Ben wants to re-drill a set, his price for a pair drilled and tapped is decent, I can't see re-drilling adding an extreme amount more

NQS
 
#18 ·
NotQuiteSane said:


Wait, are we talking about the same part? round nut with 4 slots in it?



well, more or less half way. if I picked up the socket, I don't think it would take that much longer. besides, I need to fix my transmission before I can actually do any thing.

NQS
Web wheeler hu? You can still do the screw driver trick on the slotted nuts. Just getting the hub off is about an 1/8th of the way into it. You dont think it would take much longer? Have you EVER done this?

I probably would have sold the Chev axle, minus knuckles. Bought a cheep waggy axle. JY'd some f-150 rotors, copy the stud pattern from the other knuckle, drill and tap the holes, and been done. Be carefull trimming all that fat:rolleyes: No matter how much you take out of a scout its still 'big boned'
 
#19 ·
I stopped reading through all the crap when I read that you should throw a 14 bolt under your rig after you clearly said this will be a dd and part time wheeler on 33"s.

Just spring it over using stock axles, cut and turn the knuckles (really not that hard), and get a z-link and flipcert from Snoopy. You'll be very happy with the look and performance on and off road. Little bump steer from the z-link, but it's tollerable.
 
#20 ·
JoshC said:
I stopped reading through all the crap when I read that you should throw a 14 bolt under your rig after you clearly said this will be a dd and part time wheeler on 33"s.

Just spring it over using stock axles, cut and turn the knuckles (really not that hard), and get a z-link and flipcert from Snoopy. You'll be very happy with the look and performance on and off road. Little bump steer from the z-link, but it's tollerable.
I'd have to agree with that (even if this is a 2-month old thread.


Either narrow/cut-n-turn the Chevy front to use SII stuff (like mine, Hoopers and couple other guys run) or SOA your Scout housing (about the same amount of work, with the exception of more perch work). Run a "Z" link and your on your way. No convertions, no buying new axles, no miss matched parts. With the exception of the steering you have all the parts you need.

Use the chevy axle (if its a 44) and sell the Scout housing to some sucker jeeper to fund your steering :)D) and go out and play. 33's and D44 are just fine for just about anything you can do with a Scout, you will probably need to weld he u-joint in the front eventualy if you start playing too hard. 35's should be fine as well, expecialy with the SD33.


Build it and run it. You can always upgrade later.
 
#21 ·
offroader1006 said:


maybe not, i was thinking of the hub nuts the ih use



he's got a 6 lug full width front. not a 5 lug

i was saying there arent many matching(stronger than the front) rears with 6 lug pattern, for the rear i would go 3/4 ton or bigger, and 6 lug is only 1/2 ton.

as for the fords with 5x5.5, ive heard of a guy whos known a guy who 's dad had one:flipoff2:
Way up at the top he stated option #3 was to put Scout outers on the Chev axle, that would give him 5 lugs and crossover steering. Between the Jeep, Dodge, IH, and Ford rears he shouldn't have a problem finding a width close to the Chev front with Scout outers. A new drag link, Z, and tierod and he is good to go.
 
#22 ·
ChiScouter said:
Way up at the top he stated option #3 was to put Scout outers on the Chev axle, that would give him 5 lugs and crossover steering. Between the Jeep, Dodge, IH, and Ford rears he shouldn't have a problem finding a width close to the Chev front with Scout outers. A new drag link, Z, and tierod and he is good to go.

Chev housing with SII outer would be 67" (same as chev 6-lug outers). F-150 9" Rears are usually around 65", about right.


With just 33" tires however, I think SII width, or maybe IH PU width looks the best.... but thats just me. W/ 3" BS wheels should give a nice over-all look, and retain some turning radius.
 
#23 ·
First, 33s and SOA doesn't look too bad.. 31s actually fit, so if anything you should look like you USE the rig, instead of cruising the mall. :D

Of course, no lift and 35-38s would indicate an even stronger desire to (ab)USE the rig.

Joe - you're saying this is a DD, but you're also going to run a cut and welded draglink?

If you want FW up front.. cheap but right..

Assuming you have some 5 on 5.5 wheels and tires already that you want to keep..

If you have a Dana 44 6-lug with the small spindles, convert the front to 5 on 5.5 using F150 wheel hubs and rotors. You should be able to use the rest of your Chevy stuff, locking hubs included.

Drill and tap the knuckle and buy a PartsMike steering arm and stud kit for ~$100.

If you really want to go cheap on the draglink, get a Chevy tie-rod and shorten it.. ream the pitman arm to take the Chevy TRE.. or just order a custom draglink of appropriate length.

Out back, easiest swap is a 1/2T Travelall Dana 44. You can even swap your current drum brakes over if you want to. Driveshaft length won't change vs. SOA with stock axles.

A Dana 60-2 would be better, and you could probably skip the driveshaft lengthening you'll need with any Dana 44 in the "stock" location but SOA.
 
#24 ·
binderbound said:


Web wheeler hu? You can still do the screw driver trick on the slotted nuts. Just getting the hub off is about an 1/8th of the way into it. You dont think it would take much longer? Have you EVER done this?
never disassembled a chevy. during my breif mecanical career, prior to my injuries that ruled out such activity, I never worked on the small stuff, except what I owned

NQS
 
#25 ·
RustoleumWhite said:
Either narrow/cut-n-turn the Chevy front to use SII stuff (like mine, Hoopers and couple other guys run)


yeah, i've read Hoopers report on his, nothing too complicated.

right now, my thought is don't hurry the front, and keep my eye open for a sutible rear. If I don't find a rear after a while, I'll narrow. only things that worry me about that is it's been a couple years since I weled, so before hand I'm gonna do some practicing, and I've never done gears, but I think Sean will help me with that. may have to offer him a case of something, but no biggie.

NQS
 
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