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Divorced Duck? Colder Duck?

7K views 29 replies 13 participants last post by  MochaMike 
#1 ·
I don't know where the word duck comes into things... :confused: :)

Here is what another member made:





That wasn't exactly what I needed. So I did something else. Notice how smaller it is. Also, I can pull the idler gear out with no trouble.



Dirty Duck?



Little Duck?

The above picture: Cuts made on a suaru sized lubricated bandsaw. I post beveled the edges to get them ready for welding.



Thats the plan. I got a little carried away making the slot to pull the gear out of.

 
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#2 ·
Left over parts.





Part of this divorced duck transfer case system involves the intermediate shaft. This unit will have a 1510 flange yoke. :cool: The two small ones are the stock 26 spline scout yokes and the big one is from an NP205/202/200, specifically a 200.

Close with plasma, closer with grinder, finish with lathe. The rest will be described in detail later. :D
 
#3 · (Edited)
So if I understand this correctly, you're going to build a 20/200 doubler? Keep us posted. I've got two 20's and a neighbor who will machine stuff for me. Hurry up and give me some ideas.:D

:edit: Actually what I want to see is what you do for oiling in the 20? Anything special?
 
#4 ·
I'm not marrying the two transfer cases. I am taking the front wheel drive part off the first D20 so that the NP200's front output can pass it.

The cut up yokes are the beginning of some home made 2.5 ton size flange yokes. Tonight they get finished further with a grinder, and possibly finished with a lathe. The next step is welding a disc on them, then the next step is turning out a female pilot, and the final step is throwing in the 4 .5" bolt holes.

I'm using a 1510 drive shaft to go between the D20 and NP200. Overkill, but at least it isn't under kill. :p :D

12" from flange face to flange face:



Here is a 1510 compared to a scout front stock shaft:

 
#5 ·
Hey guys, made some progress today.

Here is the 1510 intermediate shaft, two yokes hacked by plasma, one that has been in the grinder, and two that have been turned down by a lathe.



I'm not going to worry about the drive shafts on this scout. :D :eek:







The little log wouldn't quite make a dry fit. I havn't cut 1/2" on the cnc table very often so I didn't get the kerf width perfect enough.

Any suggestions before I go any further? :)
 
#6 · (Edited)
Logjam-grant said:
Any suggestions before I go any further? :)

I don't know if I should say :beer: or :eek:



:flipoff2:


Just a thought however: with that HUGE 1510 joint/shaft, and that little 21-spline D20 output... I see carnage. Just the mass of that 1510 stub shaft spinning seems WAY too much for the D20's little output.


I know over kill is good, but since your making a doubler, so the front t-case will see 1/2 the force of the rear case.... *might* be better to for the life of the D20 do just use a 1310, or maybe a 1350 joint set-up from case to case... plus it would be off-the-shelf parts ("factory" yokes).... or a shared U-joint (even less parts to fail).


Not to critique your welding abilities, but the less fabricated/welded parts between components, the less chance for failure...



Also, do you have a separate detailing of how you made your plasma table.... I want one!! (miss the one at my old work)
 
#7 ·
Grant...

I see the need for a one piece here...



The torque loading from the Bolt Circle dimension alone centered upon the diameter of that spud will spin your welds....this is a given with the amount of loading and unloading that is going to occur with your big ass fucking tires and accompanying drive shafts.

Spin that fucker out of a billet...if possible add a secondary shoulder, and lead both faces in with a gratuitous radius.

Other than that...

FAB ON...
 
#8 ·
I'm not too worried about spinning a weld off. I plan to bevel the hole and get complete joint penetration. The only reason I use 1/2" steel on the disc is because I feel 3/8 might be too soft. I can't see how a little shaft spinning at a few hundred RPM is going to make enough of a kinetic force to spin the scout splines off.

Factory joints? They're all gone. :eek: :D

I guess the only thing I have to say, Alaska is bigger than Texas. :p

I don't have any money to do this too many other ways. The cost of steering is really going to kill me. I would attempt to do it off of a billet, I have a few chunks big enough to do it. But I don't have any cheap way to do splines.

Thanks for the reality check guys, I will make sure to build it as best as possible. :) I will have a spare, so as long as the stock scout splines hold up, we're good to get home! ;)
 
#9 ·
I don't see the weld spinning, but with the reduction I think you are beyond overkill to your detriment. As already mentioned 1310 would probably work fine and maybe a fuse for the D20 output shaft. It can't be very expensive or hard to find a 1310 shaft to shorten. I admire your ingenuity, but you are off the deep end here.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thanks for the compliment. Beyond overkill... :cool:

I guess I could downgrade to a 1310, but this setup (the entire 1510 short shaft thing) only cost me $50. For another, just $50. I can get complete 1510 and 1410 shafts at $50 a piece. I would have used 1410s, but I saw this short one and I picked it up. :)

I could use lower grade bolt to connect it to the flange, that could provide a fusing effect I guess, but I had considered the 196 to be somewhat of a fuse. ;)

This weld will be here long after the splines are gone and the flange base metal is warped. 100% penetration. single bevel weld on both sides, roots tig welded, the rest Esab Dualshield 70 Ultra 2. (wire name might be in a different order, there are so many of them. :p )

While I was working on it the instructor offered to cut the 5 remaining discs on a water jet machine as well as do the double beveling. There are only two weeks of school, 4 class periods, and I have 4 flange yokes to make and finish welding up the transfer case! He hated my base metal too. So do I. While I was facing the flange surface I uncovered tons of pitting in the base metal. As well as a 1/8" deep by .75" long section of underfill :mad: but this is the spare. :D



This next one is after sandblasting, and then after welding. The smoke from the dualshield and the metal discoloring from heat made some artwork! I also wrote the e-mail address on it where I need to send the dxf file. ;)



Got carried away with the grinder on some of them. but thats all right.

Well, I won't have anything more to add to the thread until next wednesday. The tooling was poor, so the pilot diameter will get thrown on tuesday.

 
#11 ·
If you get into something like this again and want to prevent the welds from shearing off, instead of cutting the entire gear/yoke off the spline, remove most of it, leaving a square of material around the spline.
Then make your flange with a similar square that's a "net" fit and weld it up.
You'll have a square drive with the weld only keeping it from falling off, rather than having the weld take all the torque.

Just a thought.
 
#12 ·
If a complete joint penetration weld with a 45 degree bevel angle doesn't hold, then I don't deserve to be doing this. :D

Seriously, it would be a lot harder to fabricate and add a bevel to the disc if it had a square hole. It would also be a more complex weld, and the finished product wouldn't look as good.

I've used that method for keying things together, but for this project there really is no better way. I shoud stick something in there to demonstrate the size of the flange. Its a little bigger than the output gear in the D20 I think. Serious beef. 1/2x6"
 
#13 ·
Weird things to do in order to fit both a 1500 and 1410 flange yoke.



Tight fit.



Cleareance is good. But I'm going to use a spacer between the flange and bearing.



Big compared to stock. :)



And even bigger. :grinpimp:


When should I start taking bets? :eek:
 
#14 ·
Is the front/rear splined shaft tapered? Are the yokes tapered? Whats the deal with my yokes being smooth sliding a little ways and then hard the rest? I'm not talking about the one that I welded on, I'm wondering about the one I haven't touched yet. Well, touched very much...

Even though its a bad idea, I might have to use one u-joint instead of my cool little 1510 shaft. Scout isn't that long...
 
#16 ·
Well, I did one of the 200 yokes and it wasn't very weldable. I might not be able to do the 200 yokes.

I called jesse and it was about $500 for three NP200 1410 yokes, a 1350 yoke for the D20, and a 7.75" long drive shaft with a 1350 on one end and 1410 on the other.

Not sure what I'm going to do yet. First thing monday I'm going to turn the weld out of the 200 yoke and try the weld again.

At least I've got some cool pictures out of it. ;)

Its possible the weld cracking won't affect the weld enough to cause a problem. I might X-ray the weld area before I mess with the weld. Nice digital 48 micron resolution x-ray too. :)
 
#17 ·
Grant, what are you welding those NP200 yokes with? What are they doing? cracking? Can you hear them cracking, or was the weld just not going in like it should? have you done any preaheating to try and burn some of the 30 years of gear lube out of them?
 
#18 ·
All the welds are out now. I rewelded one and its perfect. They were very fine hydrogen cracks and near the surface. Caused from old Dual Shield wire. :(

I got rid of the whole weld and put in a 45* bevel. Preheat to 250* in an oven, welded with L-56 hardwire and 75/25. :)

The only one I'm worried about is the D20. I'll just cary an entire output shaft assembly in the spare parts box and use it to limp out. :D

I also used a hack saw to cut and peel the remains of tube of my tube yokes. Sand blasted and cleaned the slip yoke and tube spline too. :cool2:

Maybe I'm crazy, but 1410s look small and the 1500 isn't looking all that beefy either. :grinpimp:

I'll take some pictures Thursday. Taking out a 80ksi weld isn't fun. :evil:
 
#21 · (Edited)
Yes. Plenty of room. If I break one, then my spare will limp me out. Then I get home and swap the drivetrain. :) Keeping the 200 of course... Or I could swap in the even stronger 202... Or both. I could use the 200 in front of the 202 with a 2wd engine/trans combo. Hmmm, I have a 2wd 727 behind a 345 in the travelall. :)

Someone said my base metal for the fist disc was stupid...and that plasma cutters are bad. So he offered to give me some spanking new metal, after it had been through a waterjet machine. :)





I tried a 30* bevel on each side and 045 dual shield, but it didn't work. So buch bead cracking I didn't look at it.







The second time I tried 035 L-56 with 75/25, 3 passes, worked perfect. 45* bevel instead of the previous 35. I chewed a signifigant amount of the hub off to get all of the dual shield weld out of it. I also machined it out from the back into the new front weld and rewelded it there too. I'll x-ray them on monday or tuesday.



There is something on the left, and something near the spline section on the bottom. These are NOT cracks.



Time to get out the hand file and fix my splines. :)
 
#23 ·
Not hard at all. Tougher than the A36, but not too hard. I guess it was about like doing 100ksi steel. There is a huge difference between the D20 and NP200 yokes. D20 yokes wet out a ton better and feel a lot stronger.
 
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