My motor is over heating and I cant figure out why - Page 2 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > International Harvester
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2017, 10:27 AM   #26 (permalink)
"All Weeee Drive!"
 
MochaMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6450
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 5,794
Haven't read every post but sound like clogged glow.
Either block or radiator (or bad pump).

Disconnect return line to radiator & run it to bucket.

Run garden hose to radiator.

Observe output from engine. Test water temp coming out. (Could your engine gauge be wrong?)

If good, reconnect radiator & run hose to water pump inlet & watch radiator outlet.

Try above with & without thermostat (you can try old school flow reducer plate with holes as well.)

EDIT: how big is radiator?
__________________
62 IH Scout, Built to wheel.

Last edited by MochaMike; 06-13-2017 at 10:29 AM.
MochaMike is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2017, 11:45 AM   #27 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
the freeak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Member # 41185
Location: In the garage
Posts: 3,338
Can you post some pics of the current arrangement: Radiator/ Fan/ Shroud/ Trans coolers/ Etc?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
the freeak is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 06-14-2017, 07:18 PM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Today I connected the new Volvo 2 speed fan up directly to the battery and had the BMW temp switch all hooked up. Started the engine and let it idle. Climbed up to 210 and sat there for a little. The fans then turned on and the temp went below 210. Then with the fan running the temp climbed above 225 then (i assume the high speed kicked on) and the temps went down to below 210. Then assuming the high speed turned down to the low speed, the temp went back up to 225 and then back down below 210 again. It did this about 5-6 times. I revved it up for a few seconds and let it idle. Then while sitting at idle the temps just began to slowly climb up to near 250 then back down to just below 225. Then once again back up, and down. But it never got below 210 ever again. Just hovered around 225. After awhile longer, temps went up near 250 on gauge and then back to 225 back and forth. The fan never turned itself off. I said screw it and turned off the truck ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by MochaMike View Post
Haven't read every post but sound like clogged glow.
Either block or radiator (or bad pump).

Disconnect return line to radiator & run it to bucket.

Run garden hose to radiator.

Observe output from engine. Test water temp coming out. (Could your engine gauge be wrong?)

If good, reconnect radiator & run hose to water pump inlet & watch radiator outlet.

Try above with & without thermostat (you can try old school flow reducer plate with holes as well.)

EDIT: how big is radiator?
Mike, I'm assuming you mean clogged flow not glow. I believe its either that or two other options, cracked motor, or head.

When you say disconnect return line, you mean the upper radiator hose right? I replaced the old sending unit (which was new when I installed gauges not too long ago, thinking it could be bad) Still reads the same temps as before. I installed a new high flow (reverse rotating) aluminum water pump thinking that could be the issue.

I was thinking about disconnecting radiator all together and put the garden hose in the t-stat housing and flushing it back out of the engine that way. And doing the same for the radiator as engine crap may have blocked that also.

The core is 28" wide x 16" tall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak View Post
Can you post some pics of the current arrangement: Radiator/ Fan/ Shroud/ Trans coolers/ Etc?
Pics are below.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls

Last edited by ih4ever; 06-14-2017 at 07:48 PM.
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2017, 07:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-14-2017, 08:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
"All Weeee Drive!"
 
MochaMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6450
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 5,794
Yes, disconnect return & run a hose to radiator fill port.
Next try hose in that flex line to h20 pump.


Looking at the pics, that radiator is plenty big (could it be plugged from the factory?).

I'd run the hose (it will be cooler than normal return) & watch the gauges/return volume & temp.

Things to eliminate/confirm are working correctly:
Radiator
H20 pump
Temp gauge (accuracy)
Termostat
Flow

Last thing, would be clogged passages or cracked motor.
Are you sure all passages/connections are clear in the intake? (I've seen gaskets that cover ports that need to be open... But this is mainly on universal kits for 350/327/305 SBCs).

EDIT: Almost forgot.... Double check the timing.
__________________
62 IH Scout, Built to wheel.

Last edited by MochaMike; 06-14-2017 at 08:11 PM.
MochaMike is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 12:39 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by MochaMike View Post
Yes, disconnect return & run a hose to radiator fill port.
Next try hose in that flex line to h20 pump.


Looking at the pics, that radiator is plenty big (could it be plugged from the factory?).

I'd run the hose (it will be cooler than normal return) & watch the gauges/return volume & temp.

Things to eliminate/confirm are working correctly:
Radiator
H20 pump
Temp gauge (accuracy)
Termostat
Flow

Last thing, would be clogged passages or cracked motor.
Are you sure all passages/connections are clear in the intake? (I've seen gaskets that cover ports that need to be open... But this is mainly on universal kits for 350/327/305 SBCs).

EDIT: Almost forgot.... Double check the timing.
Mike, I think I'm over thinking this but if I disconnect the upper hose from the radiator and then ran a garden hose into the radiator instead of the radiator hose. Then the next step would be to put a hose down the H2O tube. Wouldn't the second step be a duplicate of the first? Water is just taking a longer route to get there through the radiator? Instead of directly pumping water in the H2O hose. Or is the first step to see if the radiator is clogged?

The radiator is new and with the t-stat out I saw pretty good flow. But that was a little while ago and since put in a t-stat. I will have to let it run and spill a little fluid out the cap to see if there's flow once the t-stat opens up.

I have the intake manifolds for a reverse style water pump. The back ports/passages are blocked for that style of water pump.

Timing has been checked and rechecked. Set at zero with engine warmed up and then disconnected timing wire at dash.

I'm not sure if it matters but today while running, I had a check engine light on for a few minutes and then it just turned off while the engine was running. I spaced on checking the computer for codes, but I restarted the engine afterwards when it was over heating and the light never came back on.

Also the check engine light stays on with the ignition on (car not running), it never turns off.
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 08:55 AM   #32 (permalink)
"All Weeee Drive!"
 
MochaMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6450
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 5,794
Yes, sort of.

Although its new, is there a chance radiator is restricting flow?
Doing both, you can compare flow.
__________________
62 IH Scout, Built to wheel.
MochaMike is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 11:37 AM   #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scouty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Member # 681
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 606
What's the story with your fuel pump? Went back and reread your posts and starting to think the motor is running lean. Have you looked at the plugs to see what they look like? Pump should be pushing at least 12lbs, might want to test the fuel pressure and check the plugs. Fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator might be going bad. Also not sure what emissions you have on it, but the coolant temperature sensor could be failing causing the ECM to adjust a lean fuel mixture. If you have a CTS you might want to replace it, they are cheap. Didn't you say it was throwing some codes?
__________________
"Anything Less is Just A Pile of Chit"

Last edited by Scouty; 06-15-2017 at 02:24 PM.
Scouty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 12:22 PM   #34 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
the freeak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Member # 41185
Location: In the garage
Posts: 3,338
If you are leaning toward a cracked head/ block, there's a test kit out there that shows whether there are combustion gases in the coolant system.

Napa sells them.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
the freeak is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 11:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by MochaMike View Post
Yes, sort of.

Although its new, is there a chance radiator is restricting flow?
Doing both, you can compare flow.
Possibly... Its a new radiator but that doesnt mean shit from china crap. Ill have to look. Maybe something broke free from the engine and now is stuck in the radiator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouty View Post
What's the story with your fuel pump? Went back and reread your posts and starting to think the motor is running lean. Have you looked at the plugs to see what they look like? Pump should be pushing at least 12lbs, might want to test the fuel pressure and check the plugs. Fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator might be going bad. Also not sure what emissions you have on it, but the coolant temperature sensor could be failing causing the ECM to adjust a lean fuel mixture. If you have a CTS you might want to replace it, they are cheap. Didn't you say it was throwing some codes?
Fuel pump is pretty much overkill for the system. The TBI engines have a built in regulator at the TBI unit. So I'm good there. I pulled the plugs when I took apart the heads. They looked fine. Fuel pump is brand new with build. Not sure if I replaced the CTS or not with the engine rebuild or not. But I believe I replaced it. I'll have to look into that.

I was throwing some codes earlier, once was my knock sensor I forgot to plug in. The second set of codes had to deal with either 42 or 43. Ignition control system. That code was thrown shortly after adjusting the timing after I found the timing had changed. I haven't had that code since. The check engine light was on yesterday after starting it with a kinda dead battery. Then went away after a few minutes of idling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak View Post
If you are leaning toward a cracked head/ block, there's a test kit out there that shows whether there are combustion gases in the coolant system.

Napa sells them.
I used the blue fluid test kit thing when I was trying to diagnose the suspected blown head gasket. Didn't work worth a darn for me.
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2017, 08:32 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Member # 499793
Location: Winlock, WA
Posts: 52
I am no kind of expert but I think I would be taking the temperature sender out and testing it to see what temps the gauge is reading with hot water you know is a certain temperature.

I have always questioned the accuracy of electric gauges and prefer the mechanical in order to get accurate measurements. Once you know how inaccurate an electric gauge is you will know what is normal for that particular gauge and you can proceed on.

I would hate to think that you have been chasing your tail all these weeks due to a gauge that reads higher than what is actually going on.

I had a Suburban with a transmission fluid temperature gauge. It would go way up into the scary temperature levels on a grade. When I stopped and immediately used my infrared thermometer no where in the system was the temp anywhere close to scary levels.

Seeing a gauge reading 270* is a bit disconcerting but when I know it is only actually about 180* I know I am still okay.
MarkObtinaro is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2017, 12:29 AM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkObtinaro View Post
I am no kind of expert but I think I would be taking the temperature sender out and testing it to see what temps the gauge is reading with hot water you know is a certain temperature.

I have always questioned the accuracy of electric gauges and prefer the mechanical in order to get accurate measurements. Once you know how inaccurate an electric gauge is you will know what is normal for that particular gauge and you can proceed on.

I would hate to think that you have been chasing your tail all these weeks due to a gauge that reads higher than what is actually going on.

I had a Suburban with a transmission fluid temperature gauge. It would go way up into the scary temperature levels on a grade. When I stopped and immediately used my infrared thermometer no where in the system was the temp anywhere close to scary levels.

Seeing a gauge reading 270* is a bit disconcerting but when I know it is only actually about 180* I know I am still okay.
Ive done the test with the temp sender in the engine block tested ok with the ohms the company gave me. But the kicker is the BMW fan switch I have starts at 195, but the gauge showed around 210.

The temp gun I have seems to be pretty accurate when compared to the gauge readings when pointing it at the engine block near the sensor.
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2017, 06:25 AM   #38 (permalink)
Rock God
 
jemarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member # 50690
Location: Rainier, OR
Posts: 1,266
Send a message via MSN to jemarshall
Quote:
Originally Posted by ih4ever View Post
Ive done the test with the temp sender in the engine block tested ok with the ohms the company gave me. But the kicker is the BMW fan switch I have starts at 195, but the gauge showed around 210.

The temp gun I have seems to be pretty accurate when compared to the gauge readings when pointing it at the engine block near the sensor.
Depending on location of the gauge sender and the fan sender, that's not that big of a difference between them
__________________
For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
What ever you do, please do not suck start a shot gun.

Stick it up your ass...that way you're likely to hit something vital.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jemarshall is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2017, 04:38 PM   #39 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by jemarshall View Post
Depending on location of the gauge sender and the fan sender, that's not that big of a difference between them
That's what I was getting at. 210 on the gauge isn't that far off from 195. The temp gauge is in the front of the driver side block and the fan switch is on the passenger side rear of the motor.
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-18-2017, 12:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Bo185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Member # 48545
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,235
Blog Entries: 1
What temp does the ECM say? You can see it with a pc and usb port and winaldl. If ecm reading is not the same as the gauge then gauge or sender is bad. Easy to check. If they are same then you know its motor etc.
__________________
'73 Scout II Vortec 6.0L 4L65e np241
'73 1210 Travelette SV392, T-34, 60/14bff 4.56's 35's
'01 VW Beetle TDI-50mpg or better!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bo185 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-19-2017, 03:50 PM   #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo185 View Post
What temp does the ECM say? You can see it with a pc and usb port and winaldl. If ecm reading is not the same as the gauge then gauge or sender is bad. Easy to check. If they are same then you know its motor etc.
Other than the laser temp gun, I havnt measured the temp of the ecm. It's an OBDI system, I don't have an OBDI reader, and would need an adapter to read it, through the OBDII. There's no USB plug in the system.

I just finalized the Volvo fan wiring and tranny cooler fan wiring. Now at this point in going to see when my buddy can fit me in the shop. I'm over it and it's 110 out right now.
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-21-2017, 11:25 AM   #42 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Think I figured out my problem.... Water flow, or lack there of...

https://youtu.be/A0424YR07Do

Next step is to put high flow t-stat in. If that doesn't work then back flush the engine. If that doesn't work. Throw away the engine and buy a new one...
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-21-2017, 12:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
"All Weeee Drive!"
 
MochaMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6450
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 5,794
Try that without thermostat in.
__________________
62 IH Scout, Built to wheel.
MochaMike is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-21-2017, 04:59 PM   #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35721
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by MochaMike View Post
Try that without thermostat in.
I put the 180 high flow in and this is the radiator flow now...

https://youtu.be/9c6M7tdxduE

Seem good enough? It defenitly seemed like it flowed more than with the 195 t-stat in. I ran out of time to test it without the t-stat installed.
__________________
73 Scout II,350tbi,700r4,twin sticked np205,4:1klune,60f,14b,4link fr/rr,coilovers fr,42"pitbulls
ih4ever is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2017, 01:33 PM   #45 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Bo185's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Member # 48545
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,235
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ih4ever View Post
Other than the laser temp gun, I havnt measured the temp of the ecm. It's an OBDI system, I don't have an OBDI reader, and would need an adapter to read it, through the OBDII. There's no USB plug in the system.
Correct make or buy one. Plug it into OBD I port. Connect to lap top down load WINALDL real time data and code reading/delete. OBD Diagnostics
But Hamilton Fuel injection sells them for like $30.
__________________
'73 Scout II Vortec 6.0L 4L65e np241
'73 1210 Travelette SV392, T-34, 60/14bff 4.56's 35's
'01 VW Beetle TDI-50mpg or better!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Bo185; 06-23-2017 at 01:35 PM.
Bo185 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.