Just had this conversation with "someone", although it shouldn't be hard to figure out who.
the ratings were by memory as i learned them, so i may be wrong there.
but I gotta give him credit, his solution is "unique" to say the least
the ratings were by memory as i learned them, so i may be wrong there.
but I gotta give him credit, his solution is "unique" to say the least
NQS(21:16:34) Joe: most people think "custom" = impossible
(21:16:37) : yeah
(21:19:28) Joe: heck, I bet most of the BB still think a springover is too expensive to do correctly (<>)
(21:20:29) : I just think a lot of people who do them shouldn't
(21:20:46) : a lot of people don't put enough money into them too though.... but other's just don't know how to do it
(21:21:01) : and some others just don't need to it and do it in a way that only compomises safety
(21:21:25) Joe: they don't require a lot of money. if you discount labor, you can do a SOA for under $50.
(21:21:49) : assuming you know what you're doing and have the neccesary equipment
(21:21:57) : I've seen SOA's that were downright scary
(21:22:15) Joe: true. but the equipment is a grinder and a welder
(21:22:33) : I saw an SOA that made me nervous just looking under the scout while it was parked, I was worried that it might come loose on me just sitting there!
(21:22:46) : there are a lot of people who don't have reasons to do it who do too
(21:23:00) : no point to do an SOA on something when it is *only* going to see pavement
(21:23:13) Joe: when I do mine, i'll tack everything using the mig, then take it to my neighbor to weld up with his 220 arc
(21:23:31) Joe: that I'll agree with. heck, for pavement only, get a body lift
(21:24:16) : I wouldn't want my scout any taller than it is for daily driver duty
(21:24:37) : I have enough to do what I want, but it still handles good on the highway
(21:24:54) Joe: i dunno, Clyde's supposed to be my DD, and I do want 33's on him, with a soa, so i can do some wheeling.
(21:25:23) : how many wheeling rigs do you want though?
(21:25:32) Joe: heck I can get some decent flex if I drive in the back way from Keno
(21:26:05) Joe: dunno. 2, maybe 3 for myself. we wont include future family members trucks for now
(21:26:39) : but don't you want at least one that still handle's good on the road?
(21:26:44) Joe: clyde, the 800, and maybe an "expidetion" travelall/travelette w/ camper
(21:27:23) Joe: sure. clyde will be used on teh road, as will the travelall.
(21:27:36) : what I mean is
(21:27:43) Joe: and the 800, will be setup to be able to drive to local trails.
(21:27:56) : every scout I've seen SOA'd etc drives horrible compared to mine
(21:28:04) : I just think it might be nice to have at least one rig
(21:28:07) : that isn't heavily modified
(21:28:28) : so you can use that sometimes instead of always having a vehicle which doesn't handle all that wonderful
(21:28:42) Joe: i've been in 3 SOA scouts, none were unstable
(21:28:51) : I didn't say they were unstable
(21:28:56) : just that they didn't drive nearly as well
(21:29:03) : and I wouldn't want one for a long trip
(21:29:05) : at least not all the time
(21:29:19) Joe: justin riches full width, Seans, and Jims. all handled fine
(21:30:05) Joe: if you mean it doesn't handle liek a sports car, well of course not.
(21:30:51) : My friend Ed had another reason for me as far as not modding a single scout
(21:30:58) : he's going as far as to convert a 4x4 into a 2wd
(21:31:01) Joe: so you can't corner at 60mph. big deal.
(21:31:20) : he wants one scout that handles good and gets decent milage for daily driving
(21:31:30) Joe: why does he want to convert to 2wd?
(21:31:32) : and also he won't be taking on the tough trails
(21:31:43) : he wants a 2wd so he won't be tempted to do any of that stuff
(21:31:56) : so he'll have a stock scout he can keep handling well
(21:32:01) : he already has a trail scout
(21:32:07) : so figures he'd like one that he can just use
(21:32:08) Joe: ok. i live 3 miles from a paved road. i need 4wd
(21:32:28) : but do you need every truck you have to be sitting on 33s?
(21:33:10) Joe: nah. i figure i'll stop at 49's for the 800
(21:33:15) : heh
(21:33:21) : seriously though
(21:33:33) : there are some cases where it's nice not to be really tall
(21:34:12) Joe: i may stick 33's on the 73 to get a "poor mans OD". but for a tow rig it's usually best to stay around 31's or so
(21:37:22) Joe: besides, I have a good reason why not to go lower: with my leg, it's a lot less painful to climb into/out of a rig than lower myself into a "short" vehicle
(21:37:49) : you consider the way your scout sits now to be short?
(21:38:54) Joe: actually, in the scout, i need to move the seat base back and down about .5" in both directions
(21:39:17) Joe: but no the scout isn't "short", not liek the escort we have here
(21:39:33) Joe: but I've beel in scout with what looked like 25" tires
(21:39:40) Joe: and that was hard to get into
(21:40:07) Joe: remember, my right ankle has only 15% of normal movement
(21:40:24) Joe: and i've got 3 steel peices in the leg
(21:42:04) : but we're not talking about a scout with 25" tires right now
(21:42:24) : I'm just saying I think you could better use the resources devoted to making the one scout bigger, to make the trail scout better
(21:42:44) Joe: clyde has 30's, but I'm giving them to the roommate for the cost of mounting 33's
(21:43:03) : I thought it already was sitting on a lift?
(21:43:12) Joe: nope, it's stock
(21:43:30) Joe: i trimmed the front, thats it so far.
(21:43:32) : my scout sits on 4" triangles and 31s, and I think it's perfect for a daily driver
(21:44:53) Joe: got the d-44 chevy stripped and ready to narrow as soon as I get the time
(21:45:37) Joe: but how does it flex? when I do the SOA, I don't want to gain "lift", just flex. i can doa sawzall lift to fir the tires
(21:46:22) Joe: BTW, you can fit 33's on a stock scout, although it's real tight, so why 31's and 4" lift?
(21:46:32) : I can flex the 31's until they rub
(21:46:43) : ton of articulation
(21:46:50) : if I can rub 31's, why put 33s on?
(21:47:00) : 33's on a stock scout? I dunno about that
(21:47:10) : my scout actually came from the factory with 31's already on it is the funny thing
(21:47:16) : they didn't rub before the lift
(21:47:20) : but I gained enough articulation
(21:47:22) : that they rub now
(21:47:36) Joe: i'm just saying you could have had 31's with the stock springs. and probably the same flex.
(21:48:04) Joe: 33's will fit. but you'll have no flex. none, as in don't hit that pothole
(21:48:11) : heh
(21:48:15) : I had 31's with stock springs
(21:48:21) : I didn't even change tires when I put the lift on
(21:48:27) : originally it was becuase the tires were simply too new
(21:48:35) : 31's didn't rub at all
(21:48:46) : I don't see the point of putting 33's on when it'll just limit my articulation
(21:48:59) : the 31's do what I need, I have a lower CG
(21:49:07) : and I can articulate more than most other people
(21:49:16) : but my suspension is still stiff enough
(21:49:21) : that I don't lean in corners
(21:49:48) Joe: well, I think back there you don't have some of the stuff thats out here
(21:50:29) : I think that you don't need a daily driver to be able to go though dedicated trails when you have a trail scout
(21:51:26) Joe: ah, but i'm not building clyde to do that. he's being built to do "3" and easier trails. the 800 is gonna be used on 3+ and harder
(21:51:43) Joe: the travel all i'll probably build for "4" trails
(21:51:44) : don't use numbers, they don't mean anything to me
(21:51:56) Joe: 1= paved road
(21:52:06) Joe: 1+ bad paved road
(21:52:18) Joe: 2= dirt road
(21:52:57) Joe: 2+ bad dirt, but still can use 2wd car
(21:53:38) Joe: 3= dirt road, requires a truck
(21:53:48) Joe: 3+ requires 4wd
(21:53:59) : ok, so you want an SOA for something that you can do now?
(21:54:08) Joe: 4= 4" lift /soa
(21:54:19) Joe: 4+ lift/soa, lockers
(21:54:29) Joe: 5 and higher= purpose built vehicle
(21:55:15) Joe: because some of the dirt roads around i've taken the 2wd ford on, I've dragegd the body on. lost a muffler getting those river pics
(21:55:35) : what does that have to do with the scout?
(21:55:41) Joe: clearance
(21:55:42) : scouts have everything tucked up in the frame
(21:55:44) : bah
(21:55:54) : if you scrape anything, it's probobly just going to be the frame
(21:55:55) Joe: except the diffs and driveshafts
(21:56:23) Joe: mostly though, It's cheap to do and I like how a SOA scout looks
(21:57:01) : I'm just saying that 4" would probobly give you better daily driver qualities
(21:57:18) Joe: for about what, 6 times the cost?
(21:57:22) : SOAs tend to have too soft of a suspension for daily driver
(21:57:53) Joe: sorry, that is a myth. a soa is as soft as one builds it
(21:58:21) : you start buying add-a-leafs
(21:58:24) : and then you up the cost
(21:58:24) Joe: i can make a soa so stiff you'll have to wear a kidney belt
(21:58:30) : and it gets to a 4" spring set quick
(21:58:43) Joe: add a leafs have almost no flex
(22:02:28) : I need to get to bed real soon
(22:02:36) Joe: lets see, $100 chevy 44 or 10 bolt. strip, sell outers, and axles shafts = "free". grinding discs = 3/$5. wire, about .25 worth. box tubing for rear mounts, about $5. arc welding rods, about $5. so far we're in $10 and change
(22:03:02) : you're in over $100
(22:03:08) : you won't sell parts immediately
(22:03:10) : and that's not guaranteed
(22:03:33) Joe: add materials for a zlinks, and what, another $10
(22:03:38) Joe: well, my 44 was free
(22:03:44) : don't forget shocks
(22:03:49) : and you can't get around that
(22:04:14) Joe: no, although i can reuse stock shocks with a soa
(22:04:23) Joe: but mine need replacing anyhow
(22:05:32) : the costs get pretty close
(22:06:07) : new triangle lift springs are only $50 more than stock springs
(22:06:20) : and if you get them, you can save your old springs and reuse them or sell them
(22:06:27) Joe: aren't triangles like $600 a set?
(22:06:33) : $450
(22:06:50) : for the springs with poly bushings
(22:07:10) Joe: ok, it's still $400 more than doing a soa
(22:07:16) : no it's not
(22:07:28) : you said you have a 44 sitting there
(22:07:32) Joe: right
(22:07:33) : but you could also use that 44 in something else
(22:07:49) : so you still eat that cost in the next project if you use it now
(22:09:37) Joe: sure. I could grind the stock scout axle housing. the thing is If i use it in something else, since it was 6 lug, i'd actually have to stick money into it. since I'm narrowing it and using sII outters, i'm not spending more
(22:10:02) : uh-huh
(22:10:12) : you could use scout II outters in another project too
(22:10:15) : or just keep it 6 lug
(22:10:55) Joe: nah. 800 + PU/travelalls will all be 8 lug, and by using the sII outers i can get away with only carrying one spare