Ok, I was kicking this around last night and I thought I would run it past you guys.
A 30 spline rear steer 60. I would tube the 60 so it had the same dimensions as my waggy 44 front. Seeing as how 30 spline is 30 spline. Then, all my stuff could be interchangable. Same hubs, rotors, shafts, etc... on all 4 corners. The reason I used this axle is the fact I already have the detroit. I'm thinking of cheep here. All I'd have to buy is a R&P, tubes, shafts, and related outer parts. If I used Superiors, CTM's, and limited the turning radius, I should be OK. 40" tire max, 37" is more likely.
Also, its going in a 63 Scout. Stock 90hp 152. I'm just gonna gear it. Ford gears in the 18, 3.15 in the D18, and 5.89's in the axle. Thats why I wanted the 60, 5.89 is a weak gear.
I never thought of that. I dont know if I'd use hi-steer or not. I was picturing a double ended ram but to steer, I dont know. I guess I could build a skid plate over the ram. I would love to use the 60 knuckles but cost would be through the roof. Cause if I had 60 knuk's I want to run 35 spline stuff, which would mean; locker, shafts, outers, and because I say 60 to the guy on the phone, the price goes up.
Also, can I tube the 60 to run the smaller diameter knuckles? Arent 44's 3 1/2" tube while 60's are 4" tube?
19 spline are 1.25" at the splines, 1.125" in the neckdown portion. 30 spline stub shafts would be custom (probably just shorten some inners) they would be 1.31" at the spline.
Double ended ram is not necessary in the rear, because you are just using a spool valve, you don't notice it being unbalanced left to right. Just build a beefy tie rod, use a normal ram and call it good. I would build a way to lock the tie rod if you are going to street drive it at all.
I don't know what size tubes most 60 rears have, I would look at boring the 44 C's to fit, or make a sleeve to drop the tube size down to fit the C's. Don't forget you are going to have to figure out a way to add inner axle seals to the 60 rear.
19 spline are 1.25" at the splines, 1.125" in the neckdown portion. 30 spline stub shafts would be custom (probably just shorten some inners) they would be 1.31" at the spline.
Double ended ram is not necessary in the rear, because you are just using a spool valve, you don't notice it being unbalanced left to right. Just build a beefy tie rod, use a normal ram and call it good. I would build a way to lock the tie rod if you are going to street drive it at all.
I don't know what size tubes most 60 rears have, I would look at boring the 44 C's to fit, or make a sleeve to drop the tube size down to fit the C's. Don't forget you are going to have to figure out a way to add inner axle seals to the 60 rear.
You know, I wasnt too sure about you when I met you, but I think I'm starting to like you :flipoff2: I never thought about the axle seal. I'll have to look and see if there are provisions for seals like a 60 front. I was gonna try and copy Brent from Rock Equipment (orange sammy buggy). He has a little arm that rests in a notch in the tie rod that keeps it centered. Push a button and the arm lifts, letting the rear end move.
Will 30 spline shafts fit in the stock chev spindles? Also, I have a line on a place here in portland that can do heat treating pretty cheep and also cryo treating. I wonder if its cheeper to have a stock shaft cut down, re-splined, then treated. Still have weak ears though. What to do.
I wouldn't use stock shafts, go Superior, Warn, Yukon, or Moxer Max 4340 shafts. Yukons are $250 a pair from Dutchman. I don't know if the 30 spline will fit stock spindles, I think its close, they may need opened up a little. The bearing surface on a stock stub is 1.315, so the 30 spline should fit. You are going to need 30 spline hublocks or slugs also, they are $$ from Warn.
I wouldn't use stock shafts, go Superior, Warn, Yukon, or Moxer Max 4340 shafts. Yukons are $250 a pair from Dutchman. I don't know if the 30 spline will fit stock spindles, I think its close, they may need opened up a little. The bearing surface on a stock stub is 1.315, so the 30 spline should fit. You are going to need 30 spline hublocks or slugs also, they are $$ from Warn.
I would use slugs in the rear, and probably Superior shafts. Also I thought about how I would make the 44 knuckles fit on the 60 tubes. I'll just order some 4" 9/16's wall DOM and turn the outer ends down in the lathe until its the factory 'press fit' dimensions. Should work, right?!??
I more thing. How much caster should I give this thing? 0* :laughing: I was thinking 3*
Not until Red parts get sold. I could probably have the housing done pretty quick, but shafts, R&P, and outers might take a while. Whats the best way to get 44 knuckles off the tubes? I was thinking I'd grind off the weld, chop the knucks off in the chop saw, press out the remnants, and clean them up with a die grinder. Lathe the tubes down, heat the knuckes to 400* then slide 'em on with 3* of caster. High nickle rod to be safe. I asked in Gen4x4 but nobody wants to help, how do I get the tubes out of the center section?
To get the 44 C's off, just chop them off w/ a chopsaw or bandsaw then grind whats left of the weld and knock the piece of tubing out.
I don't know if you need to go to all the trouble of retubing the housing. Just use the lathe and make an adapter that presses into the 60 tube a few inches, then steps up to the size needed to press the 44 C's onto. Then weld the C to the 60 tube on the inside and to the adapter on the outside. Basically a stepped sleeve that has the 60 tube ID on one half and the 44 C ID on the other half.
Ben. I want to make the rear end and front end identical, excluding the R&P. To get the shafts the same im gonna have to re-tube. Why shouldnt I run high steer again? It works in the front, and all the weight is there.
High steer puts more stress on the top balljoint. You'd be more likely to rip the top of the knuckle off (like Rick's 60 knuckle). There is tons more stress on a rear axle than a front, because of the weight transfer to the rear when you are climbing.
While this has been a fun discussion, after thinking about it you'd be better off to just buy a 60 front, swap/shorten the tubes and shorten the shafts. By the time you buy Superior shafts and CTMs for the 44 you are close to the cost of the 60 front, so you aren't going to save much money. I think you can buy new side gears to convert your 30 spline detroit to 35 spline so you don't need a whole new locker.
Why wouldn't you open up the 44c's to accept the 60 tubes. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the tube you leave in the c because you have to bore it out anyways.
While this has been a fun discussion, after thinking about it you'd be better off to just buy a 60 front, swap/shorten the tubes and shorten the shafts. By the time you buy Superior shafts and CTMs for the 44 you are close to the cost of the 60 front, so you aren't going to save much money. I think you can buy new side gears to convert your 30 spline detroit to 35 spline so you don't need a whole new locker.
Ben, your missing the point. I want to run IDENTICAL parts front and rear, except R&P. Fewer spares to carry, more parts to scavenge in the event of failure. The only reasons I even started with the 60 was 1) I had the locker, 2) 5.89 in a 44 is really weak, 60 would make that up in R&P size.
If I bought a 60 front I might as well run it in the front and build a run of the mill wheeler. I'll just narrow my 60 rear to match. I wanted something different, cool, and done myself.
Yes and no. Everything has service limits and design limits. i'm sure the hybrid wont hold up to everything but it would hold up to most. If built right. I'm still in it more if I bought the 60F, had the shaft shortened, bought the R&P, Bought the locker, bought the slugs. If I build the hybrid and it doesnt work, all the hard stuff is done. I can just replace parts to upgrade, and I'll have lots of HD spares for the front or lots of stuff I can sell.
I'm hoping the lighter weight (yes, its going on a diet), lower HP, and bling parts add up to a cool, unique, competant scout.
Also, the tubes on my 60 are only 3 1/4". I'll only have to bore the spindles a little. Plus, I'll only need 1 tube pressd out. Hopefully I can start this project soon. I'll keep you posted.
This may have been said...but how are you going to have "the same shafts" in the back? Are you going to use an offset t-case or a centered diff? If the diff is centered, then the rear inner shafts will not be the same as the front inner shafts ~
This may have been said...but how are you going to have "the same shafts" in the back? Are you going to use an offset t-case or a centered diff? If the diff is centered, then the rear inner shafts will not be the same as the front inner shafts ~
If he's starting with an 80, then he probably has a d18, offset taken care of.
However, even with a centered t-case, having the shaft run at an angle isn't a big deal.... It runs at an angle all its life, adding another angle isn't a big issue if things are set up properly
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