So I have been searching for a while now and have not found any good write ups on running 2 d20's in my Scout. I have looked in both Jeep and Ford talk but have not found any homegrown info on doing this. I keep finding pictures of the "cold duck" but no other info. Anybody have pics and info on installing a second t/c infront of or behind the stock 20? I have found that for about $2000 I can install some really good 4:1 stuff in my stock case (Jack O'brien gears great guy by the way) or buy an atlas II. I know about Teralow stuff but don't like the rumors and stories. Atlas and Klune sound like more money and work than necessary. I also know a little bit about the Mr Scout box (sounds too weak to me tho'). What I am really looking for is a way to do it myself without starting from absolute zero in the info dept. Any help would be appreciated. Worst case we are gonna build a range box from scratch :crybaby2:
The only really cheap way I know of to put 4-1 into a Scout is to use a NP205. If you do a search on Dooley you might find the thread. Basically he cut the front output section off the D20 and connected a divorced NP205 to the D20 rear output. This is definitely not an ideal setup, but it worked for Dooley.
It's not hard or 'machining intensive' to get the front output out of the way. You just cut the case off just outboard of the intermediate gears and weld a plate over the end. It's the mating of the two boxes together that's the hard part.
The only really cheap way I know of to put 4-1 into a Scout is to use a NP205. If you do a search on Dooley you might find the thread. Basically he cut the front output section off the D20 and connected a divorced NP205 to the D20 rear output. This is definitely not an ideal setup, but it worked for Dooley.
I didnt think an Atlas would mate up to an IH tranny.
Ken, scrap the clutch. Install an auto->jeep tailshaft->klune-> NP205. Great low range, great selection of gears, very drivable...especially with your bum leg. Wiltfong (binder) is running that identical set up.
It's not hard or 'machining intensive' to get the front output out of the way. You just cut the case off just outboard of the intermediate gears and weld a plate over the end. It's the mating of the two boxes together that's the hard part.
This is more along the lines of what I want to do. Yea if I was rich I would do all kinds of stuff IE atlas/klune etc. I don't want to give up on my 4 speed just yet and I would really like to build something like this. There is no doubt that you guys made the rocks look easy with your auto's but I'm stubborn.
So you would suggest omitting the output of the 20 and running off the 205? I had imagined it the other way around. Is that to make it easier to mate to the t-19 and the adaptation of the 205 to the t/c would be custom anyway? Anybody have any pics of something similar or a write up? The reason I mentioned the idea of mr scout's box bein' weak is that with all that reduction and torque multiplication I wouldn't think the stock gears would hold up?(is the 205 stronger for that?)
Thanks for the response so far. I want to start this project and want an idea of where to start......I'm gettin' closer
Right, since the 20 already bolts up to the T19, you just leave that there, and add 205 behind it. You want the last case to be the strongest because it sees the most torque multiplication. The 20 wouldn't see any more stress than normal, because it is seeing the same torque input as it does stock.
Lots of people have talked about doing this, but I don't know of anyone who has done it. I would start by looking at the D20 output shaft. See if it is going to be possible to respline it. Measure it and figure out if it will be best to go to 23 spline, 27 spline, 31 spline or 32 spline for the 205 input. Another possibility, if you have an old 10 spline D20 output, see if that matches a 10 spline 205 input. That would eliminate the need to respline the shaft. Also look at how the bearings in the output housing support the output shaft, you are going to have to duplicate that in the adapter housing.
Thanks Ben. Those are exactly the kinds of things I wanted to hear. So (not knowing anything about the 205's) I assume those are the different input options available w/ a 205, so by figuring out which will be easiest to convert the 20 output to will kinda govern which 205 I need to look for. I am going to start playing with this idea and collecting the parts. I will keep you posted and take some pics of the progress. I think this gives me the best place to start without throwing money around needlessly.
Thanks a bunch Ben,
The 23 spline input is from a Dodge, and is the same spline size as a Jeep 300 input. The 31 spline input is from a Ford. The inputs can be mix and matched between the cases, but some have a larger input bearing, so maching the case is required for some swaps.
Late D20's have a 26 spline output (same as a Dana 44 pinion) Early 20's have a 10 spline output. I'm going to guess you are going to want either a 23 spline Dodge 205, or a 10 spline Chevy 205.
I have 10 spline, 27 spline, and 31 spline inputs I can measure to help you get started.
One more Dana 20 option would be a divorced Dana 20. They came with a divorced kit from AA? and were used in the 70's for 4x4 conversions on the mini trucks like a chevy luv.
One more Dana 20 option would be a divorced Dana 20. They came with a divorced kit from AA? and were used in the 70's for 4x4 conversions on the mini trucks like a chevy luv.
Ken, I think with your longer wheel base you should look more into the devorced 205 setup. It should fit. Married would be nice but devorced would be much easier.
Oh yeah, no texas pattern 205's.
I have a divorced dana 20 behind a toy transfercase if it would help I can send pics with some tech. It does take some machining and some trany parts to build. the only hard part is heat treating the shaft.
I have a divorced dana 20 behind a toy transfercase if it would help I can send pics with some tech. It does take some machining and some trany parts to build. the only hard part is heat treating the shaft.
Again thanks for the response. I am going to attempt this. I really like the idea of fabricating a married set up, but won't rule out divroced just yet. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and small write up as I get going. I am going to start buying the bits and pieces so this may turn into a winter project afterall. Thanks for the pics and great info guys.
I used a divorced 205 in my scout from a travell. all you need to hook them together is a ujoint. take the adapter off the back of the t19 ad you'll see that it has a few holes that are circular turn the adapter one bolt hole so that the front output goes up. use locktite and set screws to plug off old holes in t19 to prevent the oil from leaving the tranny. then drill and tap new holes for bolts that don't line up some grinding will be neccesary on the adapter. you'll see where when you hold it up. the 20 has a wide mount for the shifter, because they used to be twin sticks in the old scouts. you'l have to cut it down so that it will only fit 1 stick. test fit it and you'll see where to grind on top of the t19. The old vent on the 20 will need to be plugged off and relocated to a higher spot. all of this required me to modify the passenger side of the transmission tunnel. It may clear if you have a body lift i don't know for sure. make a mount for the 205 and rout the shifters to your liking.cutting off the front out put onthe 20 will work also like in the previous posts, i have a friend that has done his that way. I may have missed something on all of this because i did this about 8 years ago. so maybe i'm getting too old to remember. It's not really pretty, but it's a cheap way to do it.
Basically my setup is a divorced dana 20. the front transfercase front output is cut off and plated over. I chose the divorced setup so I could clock the 20 flat. You can use a ujoint or polyurethan(sp) coupler to mate the two together. Both will work. the adapter is 1" plate with a 4"dia.x3/4" round welded to the front with a seal installed in it. looking at the back of the plate, it has a hole bored for a bearing that sits right next to the seal. on top of tha bearing sits the stock transmission rear mainshaft bearing and carrier( the part that indicates the transfer-x to the transmission). The stub shaft is made from a mainshaft out of a jeep t150. I used the splines and threaded end to match my drive gear. The rest of the shaft is turned down to match the bearings and seal, and has a snapring groove between the two bearings.. The one inch plate is machined flat on both sides and contoured to the shape of the transfer-x. On the protruding end of the shaft you can weld on a driveshaft yoke or weld a bolt flange plate for using rubber bushing coupler. The coupler helps for missalignment between the two cases. It is about 5" in diameter and 1.5" thick. one 1/4" round plate welded to the rear output of the front case and another welded to the input of the rear case. Rubber inbetween. four bolts with the heads counterbored into the rubber,go through and bolt to the front case flange. Then four bolts go through the rubber and into the rear case input flange. Kinda sandwitched to gether but not bolted hard together. It sounds kinda cheesy but it works very well. I've seen this done in one other crawler but never heard of anyone else doing it. I don't know if someone makes a kit to do this because the other one I saw the adapter plate was cast iron????? didn't look custom at all???
I can send pics but can't post them. Anyone want them to post?
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