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Old 10-24-2005, 07:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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newb question 304 vs 345 vs 392

**binderbulletin isnt working for me right now** ive searched quite a bit but i cant figure out what the difference is between the international v-8s. does the 304 have the same block as the 345, just different stroke/bore? and where does the 392 fit in. can i get these cubes from a 304 motor by using a 392 or 345 crank and boring it out?
BTW, im looking at buying a 77 scout its got the 304 im pretty sure and a 727 auto. front and rear d44s. me and my dad are going to crank it up tomarrow and talk prices w/ the owner
thanks, jake
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Old 10-24-2005, 07:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_dodge
**binderbulletin isnt working for me right now**
It isn't working for anyone right now.
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ive searched quite a bit but i cant figure out what the difference is between the international v-8s. does the 304 have the same block as the 345, just different stroke/bore?
same bore, different block, different stroke.
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and where does the 392 fit in.
It's bigger than a 345 or 304
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can i get these cubes from a 304 motor by using a 392 or 345 crank and boring it out?
No. Keep trying the BB, and look in the FAQ for a list of interchangable parts. The block of a 304 has a shorter deck height than the 345/392 block.
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BTW, im looking at buying a 77 scout its got the 304 im pretty sure and a 727 auto. front and rear d44s. me and my dad are going to crank it up tomarrow and talk prices w/ the owner
thanks, jake
Well, when you get it figure out what you are going to do with it and post up.
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Old 10-24-2005, 07:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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so what your saying is, the 345 and 392 are the same blocks but the 304 is different...that kinda sucks. im sure a 304 is stout enough to be built up to have some decent hp and tq though.....right..?
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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All three blocks are different, and can not be realisticaly turning into any of the others.


They are stout and good for most needs in stock(ish) form. You can add a certain amount of hi-po parts if you really want to build it.

If the 304 works, leave it for now. If it needs to be replaced, unless you go with some other brand, look for a 345, the extra "seat of the pants" power is noticable. A 392 could be swapped in as well, and if you find one why not, but it is not *required*.


Like UW said... get it and figure it out, then figure out what you want to do with it and post back.
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_dodge
im sure a 304 is stout enough to be built up to have some decent hp and tq though.....right..?
@ 700lbs it's a overweight pig.
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_dodge
so what your saying is, the 345 and 392 are the same blocks but the 304 is different...that kinda sucks. im sure a 304 is stout enough to be built up to have some decent hp and tq though.....right..?
The IH SV engines (266, 304, 345, 392) are a family of truck engines that were designed for high torque low reving engines. Heavy suckers too. A 304 is about 700 lbs. They can be made to rev higher but to what end?

These engines are built to run 200+K miles easy if you take decent care of them. My 345 has about 180K on it and it is still going strong.

The folks that race IH rigs often run built up 304's. I have a buddy with a '79 304/727 w/ 4.10's and it is one capable rig in mud.

You will be surprised how much torque a 304/727 can put out. My oldest has a '75 SII 304/727 w/ 3.07's even and he twisted a stock rear drive shaft with it. Had to drive home in FWD.

What do you plan on using the SII for?
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Old 10-24-2005, 09:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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this page might help you out...

http://www.binderbulletin.org/faq/7.htm
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Old 10-24-2005, 10:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
@ 700lbs it's a overweight pig.
For most of us that play in the rocks 225+lbs off the nose from a sb chevy is always



The 304 is on its own when it comes to performance and the 345/392 have an ok following. I hear you can put 345 heads on a 392 (or is it the other way?) :scratching head: and get power their
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Old 10-24-2005, 10:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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A little tip, when youíre looking at the engine from the driverís side. Look at the base of the carb and locate the throttle return spring, the spring will be attached to metal tab. You will most likely have to rub it to see the engine size. It's a lot easy to look here then the on the other side of the block near the motor mount for the engine size stamp.
These engines have a lot of low end power, but they are not a GM350. They are heavy duty truck engines.
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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For most of us that play in the rocks 225+lbs off the nose from a sb chevy is always

But some of use would never think of chebby power and go mopar!
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS
The IH SV engines (266, 304, 345, 392) are a family of truck engines that were designed for high torque low reving engines. Heavy suckers too. A 304 is about 700 lbs. They can be made to rev higher but to what end?

These engines are built to run 200+K miles easy if you take decent care of them. My 345 has about 180K on it and it is still going strong.

The folks that race IH rigs often run built up 304's. I have a buddy with a '79 304/727 w/ 4.10's and it is one capable rig in mud.

You will be surprised how much torque a 304/727 can put out. My oldest has a '75 SII 304/727 w/ 3.07's even and he twisted a stock rear drive shaft with it. Had to drive home in FWD.

What do you plan on using the SII for?
I see the BS BB line has made it's appearance.

It's been discussed here at great length here before.
A 345 only produces 5 ft lbs more torque than a ford/chevy/dodge of 5.xx Liter displacement. It tips the scales at over 200 lbs more so it actually makes far less power.
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Old 10-25-2005, 03:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustoleumWhite
All three blocks are different, and can not be realisticaly turning into any of the others.
Well, what I meant was that they are the same in that they share the same deck height and intakes. The bore is different, something like 0.125 bigger.
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Old 10-25-2005, 10:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Sooo, when it's all said and done, the IH 345 is the same as the other big 3, except they have 225 more pounds of steel. Thats some serious (BEEF)
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Old 10-25-2005, 01:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Sooo, when it's all said and done, the IH 345 is the same as the other big 3, except they have 225 more pounds of steel. Thats some serious (BEEF)
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Old 10-25-2005, 01:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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How about a view from another angle? The IH motor is in the way!
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Also, instead of mounting the nitrous bottle between the seats, I'd install a cheese toaster.
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Old 10-25-2005, 03:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R290
Sooo, when it's all said and done, the IH 345 is the same as the other big 3, except they have 225 more pounds of steel. Thats some serious (BEEF)
..with a deep skirt high-nickel block, forged crank and rods, etc.

The short history.

304 is a bored 266. SIMILAR block, but different.

345 is a stroked 304. Taller deck. Again, SIMILAR, but DIFFERENT.

392 is a bored 345. Block was cast with the bigger bore in mind. SIMILAR, but DIFFERENT.

You certainly can't make a 304 into a 392, since even if you could punch it out (going from a 3 7/8" piston to 4 1/8" is a LOT of overbore!) and/or drysleeve it, you'll have a hard time adding to the deck height to get the stroke to fit.

304 can be a very snappy engine, but it's still a heavy pig as everyone else mentions... and for the weight, my 392 makes more power.

If I were smarter, I'd toss my 304 aside and put in a built 401.. still pretty "correct" for the chassis, but lighter.

But while I like to think I'm pretty smart, the stubborn seems to be winning.. so I run a 304.
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Their all three variations of the same boat anchor.
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Old 10-25-2005, 06:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well that makes my boat anchor way over priced.

IH SV vs. chev, ford, mopar argument would have to one of the biggest waist of time sine whatís the best color

Eric
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Old 10-25-2005, 06:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If I were smarter, I'd toss my 304 aside and put in a built 401.. still pretty "correct" for the chassis, but lighter.
your talking about an AMC motor, right?
btw, if i get the scout i will use it as an all around trail rig. no type of terrain inparticular. although we do have a lot of pavement around here, thats what the jeeps for
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Old 10-25-2005, 09:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dirty_dodge
your talking about an AMC motor, right?
btw, if i get the scout i will use it as an all around trail rig. no type of terrain inparticular. although we do have a lot of pavement around here, thats what the jeeps for
Yessir, AMC 401.. aka the "IH" V-400 as installed in the Light Trucks. IH only put the 232/258 I-6 in the Scouts (800 and II), but they used the 401 in the T'all and pickup.

Technically, they never put the 392 in a Scout, but the 152/196/266/304/345 found their home.. so a 401 is almost as "correct" as a 392 swap. ("Correct" in this case just means I can argue it's use for purposes of making a racing class that prevents "non-OE" engine swaps)
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Old 10-25-2005, 09:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yessir, AMC 401.. aka the "IH" V-400 as installed in the Light Trucks. IH only put the 232/258 I-6 in the Scouts (800 and II), but they used the 401 in the T'all and pickup.

Technically, they never put the 392 in a Scout, but the 152/196/266/304/345 found their home.. so a 401 is almost as "correct" as a 392 swap. ("Correct" in this case just means I can argue it's use for purposes of making a racing class that prevents "non-OE" engine swaps)
I'v seen a few trucks with a 258.
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:03 PM   #23 (permalink)
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heres anothing newbie question. so are you saying a 401 amc will bolt up to the 727 in the scout? that would mean that all amc bellhousings are the same as IH v-8 bellhousings
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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No. There were two different tranny cases.... one with the IH pattern and another with the AMC pattern.
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Old 10-26-2005, 08:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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heres anothing newbie question. so are you saying a 401 amc will bolt up to the 727 in the scout? that would mean that all amc bellhousings are the same as IH v-8 bellhousings
The RangeRover V8 should bolt in. To the auto anyway.

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