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Old 01-03-2006, 02:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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IH 727TF to Ford NP205....?

Has anyone ever tried or successfully mounted a Ford 205 t-case behind the Scout 727 auto? I'm swapping in a Ford High Pinion 60 and going with 39.5 Boggers so I am going to need to upgrade from the Dana 20. From what I gather, Advance Adapters has discontinued the Atlas for the Scout (Texas style mounting).

Sean
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Old 01-03-2006, 02:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Why not just build a IH/jeep-dodge TF727 hybrid and get the Atlas?

Have you asked STAK about a Texas pattern 3 spd case?
http://www.stak4x4.com/
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Old 01-03-2006, 02:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipscomb
Has anyone ever tried or successfully mounted a Ford 205 t-case behind the Scout 727 auto? I'm swapping in a Ford High Pinion 60 and going with 39.5 Boggers so I am going to need to upgrade from the Dana 20. From what I gather, Advance Adapters has discontinued the Atlas for the Scout (Texas style mounting).

Sean
I take it you're talking about a married 205?
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Old 01-03-2006, 03:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 01-03-2006, 04:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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IH 727 to Ford 205? First you would want to change the 727 output to the jeep one mentioned above. Then you would have the right pattern but wrong clocking so you now need a clocking ring. Then you have a 23 spline female to a 31 spline male. Don't know how you can make that work short of a custom shaft or input gear so I would just drop the 205 and get a atlas to fit the Jeep 727.
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Old 01-04-2006, 01:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
Why not just build a IH/jeep-dodge TF727 hybrid and get the Atlas?

Have you asked STAK about a Texas pattern 3 spd case?
http://www.stak4x4.com/
The problem I'm having is that the IH 727 case seems to have the Texas style bolt pattern molded right into the housing. I prolly could get the output shaft in but wouldnt have the round bolt pattern. And Staks is just out of the budget.

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Old 01-04-2006, 01:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binder
IH 727 to Ford 205? First you would want to change the 727 output to the jeep one mentioned above. Then you would have the right pattern but wrong clocking so you now need a clocking ring. Then you have a 23 spline female to a 31 spline male. Don't know how you can make that work short of a custom shaft or input gear so I would just drop the 205 and get a atlas to fit the Jeep 727.
Same problem as I described above......changing the output doesnt change the bolt pattern on the housing. The Jeep Atlas wont bolt to the Texas style bolt pattern. I thought about using a Dodge output FOR a 205 and making my own adapter from the Texas style bolt pattern to the round Ford pattern and using a dodge 205 input in the Ford 205 case. This perhaps my best option?

Sean
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:11 AM   #8 (permalink)
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you need an output shaft and adapter from a jeep or dodge 727, then you need a dodge 205 input. should bolt it all together then.
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Old 01-04-2006, 11:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipscomb
The problem I'm having is that the IH 727 case seems to have the Texas style bolt pattern molded right into the housing. I prolly could get the output shaft in but wouldnt have the round bolt pattern. And Staks is just out of the budget.

Sean
727 hybrids 101.

The 727 is a two piece case and you can build many different combos by swapping the front housing and the rear housing. There all compatible! Each rear housing has it own corresponding output shaft, so a complete tear down and rebuild is required.

So you have:
Front housings:
BB Chrysler
SB Chrysler
Jeep
IH SV
Land Rover V8 ( factory built adapter for IH pattern bell housing)

Outputs:
IH Texas pattern
Jeep round pattern 23 spline
Dodge round pattern 23 spline
Land Rover LT231
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Old 01-04-2006, 02:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
727 hybrids 101.

The 727 is a two piece case and you can build many different combos by swapping the front housing and the rear housing. There all compatible! Each rear housing has it own corresponding output shaft, so a complete tear down and rebuild is required.

So you have:
Front housings:
BB Chrysler
SB Chrysler
Jeep
IH SV
Land Rover V8 ( factory built adapter for IH pattern bell housing)

Outputs:
IH Texas pattern
Jeep round pattern 23 spline
Dodge round pattern 23 spline
Land Rover LT231

What does the front of the SD33 727 look like? Is it an SAE pattern, or something entirely different?
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Old 01-04-2006, 02:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm1mt
What does the front of the SD33 727 look like? Is it an SAE pattern, or something entirely different?
IIRC the SD33/727 was a BB mopar bellhousing with a adapter to the SAE #4.
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Old 01-04-2006, 02:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm1mt
What does the front of the SD33 727 look like? Is it an SAE pattern, or something entirely different?
If I remember correctly it is a SB Chrysler (whatever the 400 is). I don't know why they used that, going to either the SB Chrysler or the IH took an adapter.
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Old 01-04-2006, 02:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Smoke
If I remember correctly it is a SB Chrysler (whatever the 400 is). I don't know why they used that, going to either the SB Chrysler or the IH took an adapter.
Big block Chryslers:
361
383
400
413
426 wedge and hemi
440
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Old 01-04-2006, 02:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
Big block Chryslers:
361
383
400
413
426 wedge and hemi
440
I stand corrected!
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
Front housings:
IH SV
Land Rover V8 ( factory built adapter for IH pattern bell housing)
So, OS, is the Rover 727 a new casting of the IH 727 case? Then an adapter slung on the front (just like the SD33's BBMopar adpater).

If so, when did LR use the 727.. what years.. and how recently was the IH 727 case still being cast?

I have quite a few spare cases, but I've also broken a couple.
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
727 hybrids 101.

The 727 is a two piece case and you can build many different combos by swapping the front housing and the rear housing. There all compatible! Each rear housing has it own corresponding output shaft, so a complete tear down and rebuild is required.

So you have:
Front housings:
BB Chrysler
SB Chrysler
Jeep
IH SV
Land Rover V8 ( factory built adapter for IH pattern bell housing)

Outputs:
IH Texas pattern
Jeep round pattern 23 spline
Dodge round pattern 23 spline
Land Rover LT231
Thanks Old Scout. I finally got ahold of James from ORD(OffRoad Design) and he suggests using an output shaft and tail housing from a '92 Dodge Cummins then I will prolly have ORD make the final adapter and use a spud shaft between the output shaft and the input gear in the Ford 205. Now....OS, you pointed out that Jeep and Dodge use a 23 spline output from the tranny but isnt the Scout a 23 spline output for the "bull gear"? Is there a length difference in the Scout and Jeep/Dodge shafts? Can I just replace the rear housing adapter? I'm gettin closer! Thanks for the input guys....

Sean
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Last edited by slipscomb; 01-04-2006 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm1mt
So, OS, is the Rover 727 a new casting of the IH 727 case? Then an adapter slung on the front (just like the SD33's BBMopar adpater).

If so, when did LR use the 727.. what years.. and how recently was the IH 727 case still being cast?

I have quite a few spare cases, but I've also broken a couple.
Rover put the 727 in there Range Rover Classics from 82-85 and then used a ZF Hp22 four speed auto. I suspect that they bought surplus IH 727s from Chrysler since the Scout was dead by two years!

Rover didn't import the RRC into the US until 1987 so finding Rover 727's in the US is a bitch. I'd love to have the Rover output since the Rover Lt-230 transfer case is 3.25:1 and Atlas strong.
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Old 01-04-2006, 04:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipscomb
Thanks Old Scout. I finally got ahold of James from ORD(OffRoad Design) and he suggests using an output shaft and tail housing from a '92 Dodge Cummins then I will prolly have ORD make the final adapter and use a spud shaft between the output shaft and the input gear in the Ford 205
Sean
If your going to make a adapter and spud shaft why change the 727 output? Use the Texas stuff.
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Old 01-04-2006, 04:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipscomb
Now....OS, you pointed out that Jeep and Dodge use a 23 spline output from the tranny but isnt the Scout a 23 spline output for the "bull gear"? Is there a length difference in the Scout and Jeep/Dodge shafts? Can I just replace the rear housing adapter? I'm gettin closer! Thanks for the input guys....

Sean
No. Both outputs are 23 spline but that's the only thing they have in common.
There's more stuff inside the trans that need to fit on the output shaft.
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Old 01-04-2006, 04:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binder
If your going to make a adapter and spud shaft why change the 727 output? Use the Texas stuff.
That is a possibility! The spud I was talking about however, is an OEM part that comes from the Dodge. I wish I could find someone to make a "custom" spud shaft then I would just make it fit the IH output to the Ford input but I still might be able to use the stock Dodge spud and make a custom adapter and use the Dodge input gear in the Ford 205! Savvy!

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Old 01-04-2006, 05:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Oh, I see. So your going to also change the 205 input gear to the dodge input. If you do this you still need the clocking ring which I think would make the spud too short.......Come to think of it I think the dodge 727 has a long adapter on the front of it changing the bolt pattern from 8 bolt to 6 so the spud should be real long. If this is true you should be able to use a long clocking adapter in place of where the dodge adapter would be. You could also re drill the input pattern on the front of the Ford 205 to match the clocking of the Dodge 727 output. This way you would only need a spacer and could customize the clocking as flat as you want it.
Also IIRC the Dodge and Ford use a different size input bearing and retainer for the 205. Not sure how that would all fit together.
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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As far as clocking the 205, I can clock it where ever I want as I will be hand making the adapter. I just need to match the length of the Dodge spud shaft from the IH output shaft. As far as the input bearing on the 205.....I prolly will have to find a special bearing which shouldnt be too hard but I am also wondering if the Ford bearing will work with the Dodge input gear?
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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why dont you just get a klune v in front of the 205 and this would make it a whole lot easier. the scout 727 has a "texas" pattern. the 80-85 fullsize jeep has a 727 with a six bolt "round pattern." the dodge 727 aslo has a round six bolt pattern, but the rear adapter is about 2-3 inches longer than the jeeps. all ford 205s came in a 6 bolt round pattern. but have a 31 spline female input gear, chevys 205 either have a 10,27male, or rare 32 female input.

on the scout tranny you cant just take the rear adapter from another truck and put it on the scout tranny. you will need to remove BOTH rear output shaft and rear adapter from one 727 (jeep,dodge,whatever) and install BOTH on the scout 727. the output shaft on the (jeep,dodge,whatever) will fit into the scouts 727, but not with the scout "texas" pattern.

i went with a klune v to a chevy 205, you can use a ford 205 also (different adapter) i took a 85 jeep wagoneer 727 and swapped the rear output shaft, along with the rear adapter, over to the scouts 727. the klune has a 23 spline female input for my 23 spline output of the 727, then the klune has a 32 spline male rear output, to go into my 32 spline female input of the 205. then your done...
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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So no one ever made a divorced driver drop 205?
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Old 01-04-2006, 06:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukguy
So no one ever made a divorced driver drop 205?
I've seen them in a late 70's F250.
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