R&P change and weird problem - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > International Harvester
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2007, 02:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 32039
Posts: 168
R&P change and weird problem

I was swapping out the front and rear R&P to 4.56 this past week and found a problem with my front Dana 30. It seems that the old carrier was using shim packs for the backlash. I used the old bearings as setup bearings and after installing the R&P and getting the correct tooth pattern and preload, I found that the shims on the carrier were good to go for backlash. I pulled the setup bearings off and pressed the new bearings on.

Carrier would not fit into the housing and was visibly WAY OFF from the inner housing cups. Long story short is I had to remove ALL of the shims on the carrier, used a deadlblow, and only was able to get .0065 - .007 for backlash.

I called Motive and they could not understand why the problem. Anyone know why the old bearings and shims fit and the new ones were tighter than a frogs ass without shims?

Very weird. Thanks!


I should note that the new bearings came in the Motive "Master Kit".

Last edited by pityocamptes; 10-23-2007 at 02:56 PM.
pityocamptes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 02:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
larboc@hotmail.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member # 70148
Location: Neodesha, KS, but now in da U.P. of MI eh?
Posts: 3,116
Do bearings wear? Is that possible?
__________________
I don't pay nothing for anything.
[url]http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598612[/url]
larboc@hotmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 10-23-2007, 03:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Member # 90212
Location: NM
Posts: 347
you got the right carrier right? there is a case break after 3.73's

edit I just read your whole post real good. sounds like bearing wear
to me
__________________
"This truck is probably going to end up like a retarded kid. You wanna get rid of it but in your heart you know you'll have to keep it."

Last edited by stomp-a-jeep; 10-23-2007 at 03:04 PM.
stomp-a-jeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 03:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 32039
Posts: 168
The bearings in the front are only 3 years old - thats when I changed them out when I installed the locker. Shit, I knew I should have used the old bearings - too late now.
pityocamptes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 03:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 32039
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by stomp-a-jeep View Post
you got the right carrier right? there is a case break after 3.73's

Yes, I made sure of that. I had to buy one for the rear D44 but the front did not need it since it was 3.73. The guy from Motive said it wouldn't really make a difference as the carriers are the same size. What chaps my ass is that the setup bearings and shims fit perfect into the housing with a deadblow. Yet, once I pulled the setups off and pressed the new bearings it wouldn't freakin fit. You could see a huge overlap from the outer race to the inner housing cup - God wouldn't have been able to get that bastard in.
pityocamptes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 03:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
misterfubar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Member # 65026
Location: At home.
Posts: 2,307
Blog Entries: 1
The only time I've ever had a problem like that is when i tried to use the wrong bearings. Verify the bearings and races are the same size/number as your old ones.
__________________
“Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care.”
misterfubar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 03:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 32039
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterfubar View Post
The only time I've ever had a problem like that is when i tried to use the wrong bearings. Verify the bearings and races are the same size/number as your old ones.


OK, guess I'll have to yank the carrier out tomorow night - can I get an AMEN on how big of a pain in the ass changing R&P is? I guess when you don't do it often it can take some time...
pityocamptes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 04:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43634
Posts: 124
I've set up a few R&Ps and never experienced anything like this. When the bearing is pressed on does it look to be the same distance from the "rest" of the carrier as the setup bearings? If not, did one of the shims get folded and crushed when the bearing was put on.

I'd also take a micrometer and measure the setup bearing with the race, front to back, and compare it to the new bearing front to back. Is it possible the wrong bearing was put in the master kit? Can you cross reference the new bearing number to the old?

Just some thoughts.

Brett
__________________
'75 cabtop 392 T-19w Klune-V (David) LoMax-NP205 D60 14-bolt 5.13s ARBs
'77 cabtop 392 T-19w STAK 3-spd w/OD (soon) D44 2.72s ARBs
CabtopXLC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 04:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43634
Posts: 124
I guess I shouldn't have taken the hour long call with the boss and had 2 gin and tonics while I was in the middle of my repsonse above. But I agree with the potential bearing issure.

Brett
__________________
'75 cabtop 392 T-19w Klune-V (David) LoMax-NP205 D60 14-bolt 5.13s ARBs
'77 cabtop 392 T-19w STAK 3-spd w/OD (soon) D44 2.72s ARBs
CabtopXLC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2007, 07:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Binder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1684
Location: Everett Wa USA
Posts: 2,797
Are you sure the bearings are pressed all of the way onto the carrier? If yes it sounds like you may have the wrong bearings....

In hind sight, if the old bearings were in good shape and good brand bearings you really didn't need to replace them. If the old ones were Timken and the new ones were "never heard of it before" brand I would have used the new ones for setups and reused the Timkens...
__________________
S.N.O.R.T.
Binder is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2007, 08:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 32039
Posts: 168
The new ones are Timkin also. I also checked and rechecked to make sure they were all the down on the sleeve and tight up against the shoulder.

I took last night off to enjoy a grunge metal concert - will start up again today after work. I might buy a new set of bearings and races on the way home so that if the "new" ones are wrong or bad I don't have to postpone the work 'till tomorrow. I've been working on this for a couple of weeks now between school and work and am reaching the burn out stage.
pityocamptes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2007, 02:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 32039
Posts: 168
Could this be the problem?!?!?!?



Motive sent out:

Bearing: LM501349
ID - 1.6250
width - .7800

Race: LM501314
OD - 2.8910
width - .8437




Timkens catalog says this:

Bearing: LM501349
ID - 1.6250
width - .7800

Race: LM501311
OD - 2.8910
width .9060

Last edited by pityocamptes; 10-24-2007 at 02:14 PM.
pityocamptes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2007, 03:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
REDDMANIAC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5733
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 2,182
some races are also thicker, out the old bearing & race together and compare with the new. (maybe this is what you mean by thicker)

Last edited by REDDMANIAC; 10-24-2007 at 03:32 PM. Reason: reword
REDDMANIAC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2007, 03:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
Addicted to Gear Oil
 
guidolyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56050
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 5,683
I'd say that .0623 would make a huge difference, and would explain your problem. Looks like you need to set up the gears again. That bearing number could very well be correct for the application, and be with in the manufacturing tolerances, unfortunately it's they aren;t the same as the ones you used to set up.

I would get a new set of bearings since you have pulled those on and off a few times already just to make sure the cage didn't get bent in the process.

EDIT: I see you already got a new set of bearings...nevermind.
__________________
1965 Scout 80 7.3PSD/ZF/203/205 D60F/14BFF
Member: 4 Jackstand Wheeler's Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Dwight D. Eisenhower
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here--> www.lugnut4x4.com

Last edited by guidolyons; 10-24-2007 at 03:35 PM.
guidolyons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.