anther 80 build - Page 8 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > International Harvester
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2011, 06:24 AM   #176 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Buck Dodson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35185
Location: Suthern Orygun
Posts: 917
My old eyes cant read your screen numbers for shit...

What are you upper and lower link lengths?
Can you move your frame end upper link mounts forward on that frame extension? It looks like it would allow you to run longer uppers, closer to the same length as the lowers. I "think" that would do a couple of things, allow for the links to move in more similar arcs for less binding, allow for adjustment of AS on the lower end with less rear steer.

Last time I tweaked mine, I decided I had the least rear steer in the middle hole for the upper frame mount. I think this was an AS around 50 and the higher hole calculated near 100 AS and as I recall the feeling was the rear end would try to push through a corner, which I took as rear steer.

Also, my uppers and lowers are nearly the same length about 24" and 29" OAL. All 4 are made identical and the 5th one is stored as a spare in the rig. If I ever needed a spare, I can replace any of the links with the same spare.

So,

If you are still in the tweaking and tacking stage, try looking at longer uppers and moving the frame end upper link mound forward to equalize the link length a bit.

If you are past the tack stage... Run that bitch!
__________________
Buck Dodson
Chief Scout of Suthern Orygun

A Scout II trapped in an 800 body...

So you think you want to build a 3-link Build


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Buck Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 08:00 AM   #177 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
I did play around with the uppers, and found it really just affected the pinion angle more than anything. Longer links do increase the AS a little, but only a few percentage points.

AS 56%
Roll Center 29
-1 understeer
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 07-03-2011, 10:39 AM   #178 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Buck Dodson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35185
Location: Suthern Orygun
Posts: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by plug ugly View Post
I did play around with the uppers, and found it really just affected the pinion angle more than anything. Longer links do increase the AS a little, but only a few percentage points.

AS 56%
Roll Center 29
-1 understeer
What do you mean it affects pinion angle? It affects the roataion of the pinion as the suspension cycles from bump to droop, or are you talking about Static pinion angle?

Are your axle mounts and truss fully welded? I'm assuming you're running a CV Drive shaft.
__________________
Buck Dodson
Chief Scout of Suthern Orygun

A Scout II trapped in an 800 body...

So you think you want to build a 3-link Build


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Buck Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 12:31 PM   #179 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
yes, pinion angle through the travel cycle.

Nothing at this point is fully welded. I 'may' ditch the body lift, and increase lift height by an inch or so to get more crank to axle clearance in the front. IF I do that, I need to bring my lower frame mounts closer together to keep a negative roll axis to keep understeer instead of oversteer.


sooo, I have another questions too. I have and was planning to use some FOA coilovers in the front. With the radius arms I have, it would be udersimple to just throw some early bronco coils on the front of this thing, and I have the room for it. Is it really worth the jump to c/o's on a street(10%) and trail(90%) rig? I just worry that IF there is a problem with the c/o, the front end is toast (bent shaft, etc) as opposed to just pulling off a damaged shock. Im shooting for ultra realiability so I can take my 3 and 5 year old along on trips.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by plug ugly; 07-03-2011 at 12:35 PM.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 01:12 PM   #180 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Buck Dodson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35185
Location: Suthern Orygun
Posts: 917
I wish I had my new tranny in the rig and more hours on the trail to tell you. You'll get tired hearing "why did you put a Scout on a Bronco frame?" with the coils

Coilovers are 10+ on the Cool-O-meter...
__________________
Buck Dodson
Chief Scout of Suthern Orygun

A Scout II trapped in an 800 body...

So you think you want to build a 3-link Build


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Buck Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 03:26 PM   #181 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63684
Location: Northern Ca.
Posts: 555
I understand trying to get it right the first time but you may be splitting hairs on the -1 under-steer. My rig is close to yours in weight and height, has the same rear roll center within a 1/2" and similar axles. I have 2 degrees of over-steer and apparently to dumb to feel it. I drive to most trails and back on bias 39.5's without complications. My antisquat is adjustable between 78-92-108. I run 92% and it is very predictable and neither squats or jacks. You have built a lot of adjust ability and I wouldn't hesitate to run the numbers you have. And I wouldn't hesitate to run coils on the front. Coilovers take up less real estate and are easier to mount and perhaps better in the long run but quality shocks and coils can get it done also. I'd ditch the radius arms and run a three link in the front. I gotta laugh I met you three to four years ago and we talked briefly about links and you were happy to have leafs on your Bronco because you thought links were to complicated. Ohh how the times change.Mark
Skorch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #182 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Buck Dodson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 35185
Location: Suthern Orygun
Posts: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skorch View Post
I understand trying to get it right the first time but you may be splitting hairs on the -1 under-steer. My rig is close to yours in weight and height, has the same rear roll center within a 1/2" and similar axles. I have 2 degrees of over-steer and apparently to dumb to feel it. I drive to most trails and back on bias 39.5's without complications. My antisquat is adjustable between 78-92-108. I run 92% and it is very predictable and neither squats or jacks. You have built a lot of adjust ability and I wouldn't hesitate to run the numbers you have.
x2
__________________
Buck Dodson
Chief Scout of Suthern Orygun

A Scout II trapped in an 800 body...

So you think you want to build a 3-link Build


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Buck Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 04:24 PM   #183 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
yeah, Im a dumbass. I think way too much for not being very smart.

I did like the leaves, hung them on the back, and reaized, they were just going to hang too far out there. Coulda gone to a shorter leaf, but then the money spent for a good working leaf pack vs. a link, and it just ended up here.

thanks for the feedback on the links, good to know.

Im seriously thinking front 3 link, but those radius arms work really well, are simple, and really negate the need for a sway bar, which I like. They are too long (46" from axle center line), and at a 24.5" frame height, I need to clearance the frame for up travel at the arms. The only downside to a 3 link is the front axle, 88 kingpin 60. I either need to learn to weld to the cast center section, pay someone to do it, or cut part of the housing back to make room for the link mount on the drivers side.

Where did we meet?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 04:42 PM   #184 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63684
Location: Northern Ca.
Posts: 555
Well your not a dumbass for asking questions. Welding cast is nowhere near as hard as it is made out to be my Dodge front shares the lower link mount with the tube and the truss and spring bucket are welded to the cast. All using a mig welder. I was thinking about the 3 link while reading that you were concerned about the pinion angle in the rear during suspension cycling. Some would say that's why they make u-joints, I never liked the lack of anti-dive they had on braking. We met at your storage, when my buddy Jeff bought your hardtop. Mark
Skorch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 05:16 PM   #185 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
oh yeah, thats been a while. Hows he doing?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2011, 05:31 PM   #186 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63684
Location: Northern Ca.
Posts: 555
He wheels the crap out of it. pic from last year on the Rubicon, we went 2 weeks ago and will go back this Friday. Mark
Attached Images
 
Skorch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-06-2011, 10:37 PM   #187 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
so I want to raise and extend the front frame. Is there a reason I can not just use some 2x4 on top of my frame like the below pictures? Of course the pieces I would use would be longer.





__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2011, 01:09 AM   #188 (permalink)
Addicted to Gear Oil
 
guidolyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56050
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 5,832
Stacked frames were cool on the '80...along with mullets and triple chromed out Smittybilt roll bars and lots of shocks. I think you have issues if you just stack it and weld it in a few places, or are you going to fish plate and Z it and remove the original frame?

Borderline booty fab body lift IMHO...

By the time you get done plating and fabbing on the original frame, you coulda built a new one from scratch
__________________
1965 Scout 80 7.3PSD/ZF/203/205 D60F/14BFF
Member: 4 Jackstand Wheeler's Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Dwight D. Eisenhower
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
guidolyons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2011, 08:40 AM   #189 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidolyons View Post
are you going to fish plate and Z it and remove the original frame?:
this would be the plan
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2011, 11:38 AM   #190 (permalink)
Addicted to Gear Oil
 
guidolyons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56050
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 5,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by plug ugly View Post
this would be the plan
Well...then based on your previous frame work, Rock on
__________________
1965 Scout 80 7.3PSD/ZF/203/205 D60F/14BFF
Member: 4 Jackstand Wheeler's Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Dwight D. Eisenhower
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
guidolyons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2011, 01:47 PM   #191 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63684
Location: Northern Ca.
Posts: 555
Too bad you can't chop the existing frame, move it up, plate the connection and then work the connection into your lower link mount. I have some 3x3x .188 if you want to stay closer to the original frame size. Mark
Skorch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2011, 01:58 PM   #192 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
the 2x4 actually helps bring the frame, steering box, and upper c/o mount in some for better clearance. Im just not sure about the strength issue of having a welded seem on top of the old frame and bottom of the new with just a few fish plates here and there.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-09-2011, 09:46 AM   #193 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Member # 105834
Location: Vacaville, California
Posts: 1,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by plug ugly View Post
the 2x4 actually helps bring the frame, steering box, and upper c/o mount in some for better clearance. Im just not sure about the strength issue of having a welded seem on top of the old frame and bottom of the new with just a few fish plates here and there.
If you want to add strength, after you have plated the side of the frame, then go over the top and bottom with some flat bar. This will add a huge amount of strength to the side to side even just some 1/8" would be fine.
__________________
war pony build


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
war pony is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-09-2011, 11:59 AM   #194 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
thanks for the tip
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-12-2011, 04:24 PM   #195 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
Im running the 4 link through its paces. The rear shaft is binding at 4" drop at the CV, which means I ll have to limit strap it there. Is 4" at the pumpking adequate? Really, I should limit it to 3.5 to be safe.

Of course, the other less desirable option is to drop the rear tcase........
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by plug ugly; 07-12-2011 at 04:32 PM.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-12-2011, 05:44 PM   #196 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,581
Can you change your pinion angle to help with the binding? I don't have any binding through full travel of my rear axle.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-12-2011, 06:08 PM   #197 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Member # 105936
Location: 33.94XX,-117.91XX
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFxr View Post
Can you change your pinion angle to help with the binding? I don't have any binding through full travel of my rear axle.
Go back and look at the photos in post 170. It looks like he already did that.

I've been watching this as his transfer case sits high to keep a flat belly and was wondering how it would work out.
OC IH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-12-2011, 06:43 PM   #198 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,581
Well I would get ahold of Tom Woods or Jessie here on Pirate and see about a better drive shaft, I would not limit travel until I had explored all my options.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-12-2011, 06:44 PM   #199 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16680
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 3,530
well its short too, like 27", and the motor sits pretty flat. I 'think' factory is 5 degree, and I was at like 3. I raised the motor to 5 degrees, and it drops the tcase output by an inch, which should help, I just need to recheck and see what 1" equates to for drop.

I spoke to Jess, the only next option aside from moving things around is the 42 degree cv, which apparently is not very streetable. I like to drive to the local trails, so not really an option
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by plug ugly; 07-12-2011 at 06:47 PM.
plug ugly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2011, 02:02 PM   #200 (permalink)
Rock God
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Member # 161937
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 1,356
Damon I have the 42* drive shaft and it is fine on the street. You have to grease it frequently (maybe every few hundred miles) and make sure the inner boots on the CV stay in place but it does fine on the road, and isnt all that much maintenance.
jrad12381 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.