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Old 02-10-2010, 02:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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They are Hutchinson wheels. I've 'heard' that they run about $450 per wheel new.... So someone got a sweet deal.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:12 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Location: da U.P. of MI eh?
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OO, bling bling rims
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Dang, you like to build. subscribed.

Bad rims for sure and a great score I saw those Danny posted and almost bought some back then.
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Danny israel used them on his scout. "The wheels are off a homeland security armored truck. Thay are Gm 16x8 with a 5 1/4 back space dobel beed lockers"
Hutchesen wheels are awesome!!!

Still need your address Robert...
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The cage has the sides by the dash made from some heavy plate, I think I read about one of the venders doing this so the door are more funtional.

Nice Build Robert! It should bust some snow drifts nicely.

The plates were originally conceptualized by Poison Spyder for the Samies and then Jeeps. Nathan at IH Customs saw that a similar design would prove usefull on the Scout 2. Its not to make the door more functional, but allow full unaltered use of the glove box, and headlight switch. It also gives you more leg room and less knee knocking. The plates are 3/8" steel. www.ihcustoms.com
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I had the first set he made, some of the pictures on their website was my Scout II!
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:54 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Any updates on this project?
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Old 10-10-2010, 08:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Sold it to Brad the guy with the orange Tera, that was at Just IH show with me. He is planning to wheel the piss out of it I'll get him to post up some up dates and pictures.
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Old 05-16-2011, 01:30 PM   #34 (permalink)
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So didn't you get this back? Update us with some pictures dude!
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:38 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Dang, you like to build. subscribed.
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Sold it to Brad the guy with the orange Tera, that was at Just IH show with me. He is planning to wheel the piss out of it I'll get him to post up some up dates and pictures.
..and when it came back... it actually came home with me, partly so Robert would stop building on it out of boredom.

Now it's my job to "show it some love" and work out the bugs and get this thing wheelin' worthy - and change a bunch of stuff to suit my need for a back seat for the kids.

My oldest daughter, Joleigh, now says a little prayer for Tigger and Little Devil each night before bed.. after 10+ years with both, I decided to send both to the scrapper a week apart. I'm hoping scrap is up, and that helps pay for the new rig.

Joleigh went with me to Billings to bring home the new IH.



I think she learned to pose for pictures from her cousin.

Wife likes her suspension seat thus far.




I twisted the thing up on the trailer to check the shocks vs lack-of-bump stops, but should have done more going-over before I did so.




I confirmed the bump stops limit up and down travel, except when the brake hose gets in the way.


Well, that didn't take long now, did it?

One of the other things I found that I can't decide how to properly address, but have seen this over and over again..



The highsteer tie-rod almost touches the oil pan on flat level ground with the tires straight ahead. Turning would make that worse, of course.

The picture above is at full bump (against the shock) and you can see the tie-rod hitting the pitman arm as part of the bump stop system, too. With the hydraulic assist, I'm not sure what happens when I bind it up like this, then turn, and drag the adjusting coupler through the pitman arm.

So what does everyone else do?

The tie-rod-near-the-oil-pan is a common problem for a high-steer Scout II. I had problems with my old racer with just the high draglink catching now and then.

It looks like MAYBE going at the high-steer arms from the BOTTOM would clear OK.



It at least wouldn't hit at full droop when the springs fan up into a U. I would need to check to ensure it didn't hit the spring plate at any time.

Does anyone make a "mount from under" arm?

Longer arms would help get the tie-rod away from the oil pan, but not from the pitman arm...

Michelle suggested we take the Scout wheeling in it's current form at least once before I really lay into it. Getting bump stops on it is one of the big items I need to address.. and maybe it's just "lower them a ton!" is the answer for now..

I also need to change out this rear yoke on the Dana 20. Dunno WTF it is, but I have a pile of broken Dana 20s to pick through to get the right yoke.



Later, I have to slice two bars out of the cage and add on to it, trade the Terra top for a Traveltop, either rework the propane or convert it back to gas with the 33gal tank from my old rig and one of the several TBI setups I have here (but never installed on the old rig, because I figured as soon as I did that, the body would finally fail entirely), and so on.

I guess I also need to do a height check. The new racer is in the 9x9 door bay already and currently not even a rolling chassis.. which leaves the 8' high door..
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ok looking at your pictures I screwed up you have a great start as I said. Now install some bump stops and get it on the trail

As far as the top steer, I will be watching close as to the best way to deal with the clearance issues. I don't have any issues with my SSII but I don't have leaf springs and have a dropped pitman arm so it clears the oil pan. I had issues with Leona's Scout until I installed the LS1, it sits far enough back that the oil pan is behind the drag link. There is just a plane old space issue when you have a ton of travel with so little clearance. If you install lift springs you will gane more clearance, but the ride hight goes away, when I was building the Scout I was looking at keeping it as low as I could to improve the CG and contribute to the "Buggy Look"

I do remember something about the rear yoke on the transfer case, if I remember Ricky drilled out the threads and installed straps, I don't remember why.

One thought I have if you can't resolve the clearance issue with bump stops, I can hook you up with a quick ratio orbital valve and you can go full hydro. But then you really need to be careful on your junts around town.

edit: check out how easy it will be to pinch the nose, that was very close to the top of my list. The core support is hacked up enough that the pinch would be less than a weekend project.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:42 AM   #37 (permalink)
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OK, so I thought this morning that maybe flipping the arms side to side (and thus, upside down) might do the job, but there's about 2" of clearance between the spring and tie-rod, and a straight flip would change that by about 3" and put the tie-rod in the springs.

A 1" spacer block and a flip would be in the ballpark, though. $90 a side for the 1" spacer and studs.

These NWFab arms might work out better, going "under", too.


Or these from Mad4wd

ORU sells one with a 2" lift.


A slightly longer arm would help move the tie-rod forward of the pan, but doubtful I can get it enough forward to clear at all times and still keep the tie-rod out of the pitman arm or the springs.

Raising the arms 1" and flipping would probably net me another 1" of oil pan clearance, which is a good start.

Maybe a "dropped" tie-rod ---___--- is in my (distant) future. It does give me concern about holding up to the ram pushing against it though.

A dropped tie-rod won't fix the tie-rod-into-pitman-arm problem, only lowering the high-steer would.

I can't gain too much more up-travel anyhow, before the tire hits the firewall or other items


Though some can be gained. There's also the concern about too-much negative arch in the springs.

So.. mostly, it's about a little more room for the tie-rod at-rest (it nearly touches on flat ground) and more room for the tie-rod vs pitman arm at full bump.



As the shocks are installed (in the front) is probably right where the bump-stops need set no matter what.

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Old 09-19-2011, 09:58 AM   #38 (permalink)
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In that situation I think i would build some special arms and put the tie rod in front of the drag link. Have 2 holes in the passenger side arm and put the draglink straight in to the pass. arm at the same distance the tie rod goes in now to retain proper steering ratio.

Another option would be to put the tie rod behind the axle if that would clear the center hump in the pan.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:04 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Michell's right. Wheel the thing THEN tear into it. I think your over thinking it. Ramping it on the trailer and wheeling it in the snow are two different things. Right now it runs, drives and is complete. Don't f-with it till the racer's "done" or you'll have project creap again.


If you don't jump it () using the shocks as a bump stop is "OK", after all, you shouldn't be dropping it so hard to compress it like that with the wife and kids on board.


If your going to put the travel top on it, loose the LPG. I like my LPG, but the tanks should be outside, and fuel storage takes up a LOT of real estate. Cut downa traveler top for it, that would look imp:, till then, run Tigger's old soft-top, would look crappy with a hardtop on it.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:08 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Steering arms = $$$$$
Bump stops = $

You my friend have the gift of search and research, on my SSII when I had those passe' leaf springs I had the oil pan clearanced for the drag link. I still have the pan with the front cut and filler installed if you want it. I am thinking for the best fix, full hydro or link the front. You already have the axles and lockers so the next evolution will be links anyway, and with a drop pitman arm you would be golden.

Or can set the bump stops and see how much fun you can have with it now
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:27 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Michell's right. Wheel the thing THEN tear into it. I think your over thinking it. Ramping it on the trailer and wheeling it in the snow are two different things. Right now it runs, drives and is complete. Don't f-with it till the racer's "done" or you'll have project creap again.


If you don't jump it () using the shocks as a bump stop is "OK", after all, you shouldn't be dropping it so hard to compress it like that with the wife and kids on board.
I'm trying to work down that "wheel it for a bit, even with the Terra top, then fork with it" road, but the bump stops need addressed first, and it looks like some sort of temporary bump-stop setup to keep the steering out of the pitman arm/pan is in order.

This acquisition puts the new racer back a bit on the needs-more-parts list, plus wheeling with my family is more important than racing, and snow wheeling will be here soon.

Jumping is often an unintended part of snow wheeling when you hit the wall at the end of the ruts you're building - and I don't want to give the oil pan a hearty "kiss" at speed 20 miles up the trail in the cold. ..then I become that guy with the big BROKEN Scout everyone had to drag home, instead of the guy with the big Scout that drug around the Jeeps.

Quote:
If your going to put the travel top on it, loose the LPG. I like my LPG, but the tanks should be outside, and fuel storage takes up a LOT of real estate. Cut downa traveler top for it, that would look imp:, till then, run Tigger's old soft-top, would look crappy with a hardtop on it.
If Cory hadn't already alerted me (well, indirectly) to the fact the Traveltop is TAPERED front to back, I'd give more thought to sectioning one and building a 3/4 length top, putting LPG behind the bulkhead behind the rear seat, despite the lost cargo area.

Since it wouldn't be a "simple" cut and weld, I'm less inclined to do that "soon" and thus a full length stock Traveltop is the plan.

The old soft-top has a sun-roof in it you can't close. I have a NOS BesTop, but I'm not ready to sacrifice it to wheelin'. Hardtops hold up better to the trees.

So.. yeah.. bump stops and a new brake line, and two of us can go wheelin' for a day or two to see what else needs addressed.

Did I mention the Terra Top doesn't have a back window? I'm sure the heater does a fine job keeping the half-cab warm, but it still may not be too comfy at -20 this winter, so the full top should happen sooner than later (which means the 33gal tank and TBI needs to go on sooner than later.. blah blah blah)

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In that situation I think i would build some special arms and put the tie rod in front of the drag link. Have 2 holes in the passenger side arm and put the draglink straight in to the pass. arm at the same distance the tie rod goes in now to retain proper steering ratio.

Another option would be to put the tie rod behind the axle if that would clear the center hump in the pan.
Now there's a stellar idea.

The draglink ties into the tie-rod at the moment, and while my personal preference is to go straight to the steering arm, it's tight now and the ram should help it remain tight.. so it's certainly nothing to address near term. I can "fix" it when the TRE wears out years from now.

However, two longer arms, straight cut, that would otherwise accommodate dual-drilling, is an excellent idea.

They would have to come forward a good bit further, but I could then just rotate the tie-rod 180-deg and bring the draglink in from the backside, instead of the front.

The arms would have to be long enough that the tie-rod clears the pitman arm, but that would make the tie-rod/pitman no longer the bump stop, put the tie-rod in front of the oil pan, and not require much else to change.

That far forward, the tie-rod would clear the pan at all times/angles/articulation, and it would probably pull the draglink forward enough that it wouldn't be a problem either (it looks like it'll clear now). (Just need to ponder hitting the springs at full droop then)

Good reminder on the steering ratio, too. I would have to double check all of the limits between the box/pitman/draglink/steer-arm and the ram throw.

For now.. a long and cheap bump-stop to at least keep the tie-rod adjusting sleeve and the pitman arm from getting into an ugly fight.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:28 AM   #42 (permalink)
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"If your going to put the travel top on it, loose the LPG. I like my LPG, but the tanks should be outside, and fuel storage takes up a LOT of real estate. Cut downa traveler top for it, that would look imp:, till then, run Tigger's old soft-top, would look crappy with a hardtop on it."

My vote as we looked at would be to install a bulkhead behind the rear seat, seal the top and install the pane tank there. I think you could have enough space for some trail spares ie: axles, drive shafts, and tools in the same compartment. Then you have access by opening the tail gate, and have space to secure a cooler, on top of the shelf you build accross the top of the tank/storage area. Access the cooler by opening the lift gate
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #43 (permalink)
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They would have to come forward a good bit further, but I could then just rotate the tie-rod 180-deg and bring the draglink in from the backside, instead of the front.
You are going to screw up the steering ratio quite a bit if you move the tie rod far enough forward to clear and try to stick with the t-style linkage. Save yourself the headache and just go straight to the arm with the drag link. Its not rocket surgery.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:04 AM   #44 (permalink)
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You are going to screw up the steering ratio quite a bit if you move the tie rod far enough forward to clear and try to stick with the t-style linkage. Save yourself the headache and just go straight to the arm with the drag link. Its not rocket surgery.
Not to pour fuel on the fire (which I don't want to do ). I think I have a couple set of "wenerfab" 2-hole arm around still that might work depending on your wheel back-spacing. I'll have to see.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:05 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Not to pour fuel on the fire (which I don't want to do ). I think I have a couple set of "wenerfab" 2-hole arm around still that might work depending on your wheel back-spacing. I'll have to see.
That is a Dana 60.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:11 AM   #46 (permalink)
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That is a Dana 60.
Your right. Didn't notice that the first time through.

never mind.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:27 AM   #47 (permalink)
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What about pushing the axle forward?
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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What about pushing the axle forward?
That is what I did with my D60 --- I tried to line up the short waggoneer pitman arm with the short high steer arm so they would 'in theory' swing through similar arcs . It bumped the axle a few inches forward of stock.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:56 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Interested in the terra top and bulkhead if you want to trade for a nice traveltop and seat.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:21 PM   #50 (permalink)
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You are going to screw up the steering ratio quite a bit if you move the tie rod far enough forward to clear and try to stick with the t-style linkage. Save yourself the headache and just go straight to the arm with the drag link. Its not rocket surgery.
You're right, and it's not that big of a deal to whip up a new draglink.

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That is a Dana 60.
And that was one of the deciding factors. I had a chance to buy Nurse's built Traveler a month or so ago, but at the end of the day, it was a 36" shod Dana 44 equipped long-wheel-base less-rusty/more-straight mirror of my old trail rig.

For the price, I could've put a Kentrol tub on my old rig and been money ahead.

This one has a straight-ish and not-rusty tub and an axle upgrade.

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What about pushing the axle forward?
It looks to be forward a little bit already, and maybe a little more would be healthy, but while moving it forward another inch or three would "fix" the oil pan problem, it wouldn't fix the (tie-rod vs ) pitman arm issue without ALSO moving the tie-rod further forward to put it in front of the pitman arm.

I haven't turned the tires with it on the ramp, but the 2-3" of clearance I measured against the firewall is deceiving when straight ahead, since the 38x15.50 tires have a lot of width and if it doesn't hit when turning, I suspect there isn't much room to fool with.

Pushing the axle forward a little more might make room for 39.5s. I think I know of a set I could borrow for testing purposes, though new tires are not in the cards any time soon, and the Cepeks look to be in good shape.

So.. short term, bump stops, longer term, get a pair of longer arms, double drilled, with one hole about even with the current tie-rod hole, the other in front. Move the tie-rod forward, run the draglink into the passenger knuckle, and then adjust the bump stops.

That might mean 4-5" longer high-steer arms, just looking at the pictures, though maybe I add 1" of wheelbase at the same time to alleviate that some. It would also better accommodate more tire should I feel the urge, since it has more clearance to the front than to the firewall.
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