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Old 09-19-2011, 03:28 PM   #51 (permalink)
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You posted only 18 hours ago and already this thread is going to an additional page!

Good to cross paths with you on your way home--looks like a great project.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:40 PM   #52 (permalink)
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What about pushing the axle forward?
If you push the axle forward enough you could flip your t-style steering linkage around so the draglink is on the back and make everything work with out changing your steering box or high steer arms.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:25 AM   #53 (permalink)
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If you push the axle forward enough you could flip your t-style steering linkage around so the draglink is on the back and make everything work with out changing your steering box or high steer arms.
I think the answer is going to be a combination of moving the axle forward, and moving the tie-rod forward with longer arms.

I can move the axle forward a little more, but I don't want to push it enough for the tie-rod to clear the pan - I want it to resemble a Scout, and that was part of Robert's thought as well, and more than another inch forward, and more cutting will have to take place up front and more of the character lines would have to go.

An inch might mean 39.5s will fit.

I also need to check the front driveshaft for binding at full droop - forgot to do that on Sunday. Moving the axle forward would add some length to the driveline (which oddly has a CV at the t'case, but the pinion is "flat") and relieve some angle.

I want to make sure it won't really "need" a cut-n-turn before addressing the steering, since adding caster would change the location of the tie-rod relative to the springs.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:28 AM   #54 (permalink)
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You posted only 18 hours ago and already this thread is going to an additional page!

Good to cross paths with you on your way home--looks like a great project.
Thanks. Sorry I didn't make it to the race early enough to really visit. I spent too much time BSing at Robert's.

..and then, as I left the gas station, I moved the radio.. and apparently I only crimped the power-poles on that 2m mobile, not solder, and yanked them out.. so no additional chatter on the radio when I left. Drat.

Turns out, the guys I was stopping to see where still at the race site.. heck.. we stopped for dinner in Livingston, then fueled again in Three Forks before they had left Columbus.. so it worked out just heading straight for home - it kept the trip to a mere 15 hours.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:09 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Two 42" brake lines went out in the mail today. I also picked up a bag of clamps for you. I got the lines from DRW, I can't believe the mark up on braided lines. I bought two lines for the disc brake conversion 6" they were 6.00 bones each. The 42" lines for Toms truck were 32.00 both, seems like there is a pile of mark up from the 4x4 vendors on the braided lines. Tom I got you the plastic coated clamps just a little larger than the lines so they well slide in the clamps, and not stretch. My thoughts were the clamps will keep them out of the way but also let them move around when needed.
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:08 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Tom you scored on the Snow Scout that thing just looks good the way is sits.

I'm sure you will have the minor love done before the snow starts to pile up.

If you need SS lines these guys are just down the street and I can save a bit on shipping.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:58 PM   #57 (permalink)
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If you need SS lines these guys are just down the street and I can save a bit on shipping.
www.amstreetrod.com
Good to know! I have an entire racer to plumb still.. the Snow Scout puts that back a little, since I do need to make some changes before the snow flies (like that back seat that's missing), but the racer is still in the pipeline for some attention, particularly since the old one will be hauled away for scrap shortly (that frees up some of the parts I need for the new one)


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Tom you scored on the Snow Scout that thing just looks good the way is sits.

I'm sure you will have the minor love done before the snow starts to pile up.
I think it looks darn good the way it is, and as Robert said "beat it like it owes you money"

It's just that it's in the "good first effort" stage right now, where it's been built, you think it's all going to work out, but it hasn't actually been wheeled yet.

It needs a good shakedown run.

Hopefully something can happen next week or after.

..after the brake line is replaced, bump stops installed, big LPG is filled, and the seat slider installed so I can reach the darn pedals.

That's the "must do" list before it gets a work out.
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:18 PM   #58 (permalink)
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"..after the brake line is replaced, bump stops installed, big LPG is filled, and the seat slider installed so I can reach the darn pedals."

Fill the tank, install bump stops, toss a pillow behind you ass and wheel the thing. Ask Leona the reach the peddles thing is way over rated
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:30 PM   #59 (permalink)
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"..after the brake line is replaced, bump stops installed, big LPG is filled, and the seat slider installed so I can reach the darn pedals."

Fill the tank, install bump stops, toss a pillow behind you ass and wheel the thing. Ask Leona the reach the peddles thing is way over rated
No kdding, buck up Tom...



and only $400.00
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:07 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Got the brake line(s) replaced and bled tonight, but not much else.

Did notice that I'm going to want to transfer the TWO "medium transmission coolers" off the old trail rig onto this one as return-line coolers for the power steering.

I needed them before with just power steering and front/rear Lockrights and 36s. I'm sure they'll be useful with hydroboost, hydraulic assist, and 38s.

Also noticed the Dana 60 arms.



Doesn't the "cap" go UNDER the arm, usually? Unless they're the special no-spring/no-cap arms.

I think I need to pull the caps and confirm there's anything resembling preload on the kingpin..

Or am I confused?

Driver's side is the same, but has the thicker cast cap in place.

My Dodge 60 doesn't have any high steer installed..

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Old 09-23-2011, 09:34 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Tom I seem to remember there is a spacer in the cap for that arm. Easy enough to pull the cap but I do remember Ricky and I discussing the cap and spacer.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:28 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Should be a short stubby spring in there I believe, w/conical (sp.) washer, cone shaped w/ split running all the way down it under the cap. Cap does go on top.... Nice score by the way, I love the way that thing sets, just looks tough. I would leave ride height as close to what it is now so you can do some high speed snow wheelin w/out having to worry alot about catching an edge while sliding around.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:08 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Should be a short stubby spring in there I believe, w/conical (sp.) washer, cone shaped w/ split running all the way down it under the cap. Cap does go on top.... Nice score by the way, I love the way that thing sets, just looks tough. I would leave ride height as close to what it is now so you can do some high speed snow wheelin w/out having to worry alot about catching an edge while sliding around.
I like the stance as well.

I know all about "catching an edge" since I'm in the process of dismantling and disposing of the old racer, which was SOA on full width with 31s and I caught an edge last October. 2.5 times (at least, I counted that many) at 55mph, sideways, seems to have been enough to finish it off. Fortunately, my wife and kids were (not) watching, not riding.

After I started cutting and drilling steel to put the driver's seat on the sliders, I thought I'd check my head clearance and realized that while I want the seat about 5" forward of where it is, I can't really raise it much.

..so I think I'll lower it.

I'll drill through the seat support tube about 5" forward of the current tab, sleeve it, then add a stub at the front of the seat supports to do the same up front.

Lower the seat about an inch, and move it forward 5.

That might even give me room enough to wear a helmet while driving, should the situation warrant.

Now to get the shop cleaned out a bit so I can get more than 30 minutes in before I feel guilty for making too much noise outside (I must be getting old)

Got plates on order for it today.

Found out the toolbox under the propane tank wasn't a toolbox, nor was it mounted.

Propane tank is heavy, btw!



Still chasing the stow-away spiders away, too.

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Old 09-30-2011, 01:15 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Got the driver's seat mounts finished last night.

I needed to move the seat about 5" forward, and down as much as I could to a) make my legs reach the pedals easier and b) keep my noggin inside the cage.

Solution was to remove the trick-tabs holding the seat on, then drill through the seat mounting cage, sleeve, and weld.




I've done prettier welds before..



For the front, I cheated. Some angle welded to the leading edge will do the job just fine.



While I was fooling around in the shop.. I checked the tie-rod-to-oil-pan clearance at full left/right and straight ahead.

The tie-rod either just clears, or not-quite-clears at rest, going straight ahead. Rear of tie-rod is even with front of oil pan. Top of tie-rod is even with bottom of pan.

At full right/left, the front of the tie-rod is about flush with the front of the pan.

Tie-rod is 1.25" OD, so the overall change is 1.25" from "dead ahead" to "full right"

Steering arm appears to be 7" (or 8?) from king pin to TRE. I would need to come forward more than 1", at least 1.5, maybe 2", to keep the tie-rod clear
of the pan when turned.

Bringing the tie-rod forward makes the tie-rod vs pitman worse, since the pitman arm slopes down.

I need to go forward 4-5" to clear the draglink (tie-rod in front, draglink behind), and by then I'm pretty sure I'll be into the springs, not to mention I'd need to cant the high-steer arms inboard to clear the tires.

I have room for 4" of up-travel before the D60 pig hits the pan.

I have 2.5" of up-travel available on the shocks at-rest.

I have less before I hit the pitman arm (IIRC 1"?)

So.. I'm not going to get more than 4".

I should probably settle for 2.5" and leave the shocks alone for now.

But what I have right now is 0" to the oil pan. I'd like *some* uptravel.

I can't go behind the axle - the oil pan hangs down further, plus the whole diff and driveshaft thing. (Though maybe a front-sump pan like R290 would help that out)

Robert suggested notching the oil pan, and maybe I can get 1" of up-travel if I can cut 1"x1.5" out of the pan (1 up, 1.5 back).

I could do that right now to get to 1" of uptravel (making the oil pan and pitman arm even as far as "what hits first").

A 1" spacer and flipping the arms, bringing the tie-rod in from underneath, would net me about 1.25" of additional up-travel at the oil pan AND pitman arm.


Cut n' weld the oil pan, raise the steering arms and then flip them, and I could be in the neighborhood of 2+" of up-travel. That's better than 0, and a good place to get to without too much effort (stopping short of linking the front and getting to that whole 4" of up-travel I have before the diff hits the pan)

So, Robert, if you still have that notched pan around and you want to send it over with that 196 to build, that would be appreciated.

If not, I'll get a pan cleaned and start checking clearances for the chop.
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:19 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Tom I need to look in the shop and in the loft for the pan, I looked in the garage and did not see it. I will check the shop tomorrow. I have also been working on a deal with the fellow in kalispell to buy the diesel Travelette, if that works out he will pick up the 304 on his way here and bring you the 196 on his way home. Plan B on the 196 it will be a long block for you to build, the newer one had too many differences. I have a local car show tomorrow that wants me to bring a few Harvesters to, so call me when you have a chance and we can chat about all the crap going on.

Also the Hotrod is back in the shop we are making headers this week and will be getting it ready for the tear down and powder coat. I will need the motor from you for the intake manifold because the mock up motor has 345 heads on it and the new plans are to build the blower manifold for the new to me motor.
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Old 09-30-2011, 11:22 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Plan B on the 196 it will be a long block for you to build, the newer one had too many differences. I have a local car show tomorrow that wants me to bring a few Harvesters to, so call me when you have a chance and we can chat about all the crap going on.
M4x4A Delegates meeting tomorrow.

When I got home tonight, sans kids, I thought "I'll just get the seat installed and then get to prepping for the meeting" so I didn't even change clothes.

..after vacuuming the metal shavings, re-installing the seat, strapping the LPG bottle down, putting oil in the Dana 20 (it was dry, or something near it), replacing the rear output yoke on the Dana 20 with the right one (finally, all of those broken Dana 20s came in handy - turns out, this 3:1 D20 sports a 10-spline rear output), topping off the power steering reservoir, then confirming it still has oil in it..

I went for a ride around the neighborhood.

Still chatters badly taking off in 2nd, even with air in the tires (Oh, and aired up 4 round tires that didn't register on the gauge).

Tailgate latch needs attention. Seems one side "U" latch is forward and the other is backwards. Not sure which side was supposed to be holding things in place when it flopped open on me.

Headlights flicker like crazy - loose connection somewhere.

Got home again and watched something running out of the back of the engine - likely rear main.

Decided to drain all of the water out of the oil pan (when I checked the oil, it was choco-pudding like) - almost didn't have enough pan under it when I did.

Changed the filter and refilled with 6 quarts of some NAPA house brand oil I won at Convention a few years ago. I'm hoping that maybe with some real oil in the engine the seal will cooperate again.

Need to fabricate a clutch return spring mount (piece of angle, drilled for the 1/2" bell housing bolt and for the spring) so I can hook the clutch return spring up and stop beating the throw-out bearing to death, too.

All this, because I wanted to drive the Scout 2 miles to the corner bar for the meeting tomorrow.

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Old 10-01-2011, 04:45 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Tom I need to look in the shop and in the loft for the pan, I looked in the garage and did not see it. I will check the shop tomorrow. I have also been working on a deal with the fellow in kalispell to buy the diesel Travelette, if that works out he will pick up the 304 on his way here and bring you the 196 on his way home. Plan B on the 196 it will be a long block for you to build, the newer one had too many differences. I have a local car show tomorrow that wants me to bring a few Harvesters to, so call me when you have a chance and we can chat about all the crap going on.

Also the Hotrod is back in the shop we are making headers this week and will be getting it ready for the tear down and powder coat. I will need the motor from you for the intake manifold because the mock up motor has 345 heads on it and the new plans are to build the blower manifold for the new to me motor.
I figured you would probably end up with that T'ette. I looked pretty straight in the CL add. It's nice to spend other guys money
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:45 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Made it 2 miles to the corner bar for the M4x4A meeting and back without any incident - mechanical or enforcement.

I need to replace pretty much all of the dust boots on the steering linkage - they're all (or all-but-one) shot and dry at this point.

While looking for the right boots, I noticed these offset tie-rod ends when I was perusing PartsMike, and also offered by RuffStuff.




Quote:
Here is the answer to the challenge of using an oversize Tie Rod without any conflict with the Diff Cover.

These Tie Rod Ends (TRE's) are offset by 3/4" so you can move to an oversize tie rod without hitting the cover at full lock. They are also stronger being a GM 1 ton TRE. You will have to enlarge the taper but then you can easily add beef to the Tie Rod.

The Taper is .749"-.748", if you are replacing a smaller TRE you will want to ream the taper to .75".
The $33-ish price is on part with the regular straight ends.

I hadn't noticed the 3/4" part until I just pasted. That's not enough to solve my problem alone (I need to gain about 1.25" at full lock, which means the tie-rod needs to come forward at least 1.5" and probably more), and would have no provision for the draglink to tie into the tie-rod like it is now.

For a moment there, it looked promising.

Maybe someone else will find it useful.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:37 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Tom NAPA has a TRE book see if you can get them to let you poke around in it. You can get all the dimensions on the TRE and may be able to come up with something like I did on my SSII. I had the oil pan issues until I dropped the bars. here's mine, the offset you posted does not look like it would gain any clearance just push it a little forward.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:41 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Tom NAPA has a TRE book see if you can get them to let you poke around in it. You can get all the dimensions on the TRE and may be able to come up with something like I did on my SSII. I had the oil pan issues until I dropped the bars. here's mine, the offset you posted does not look like it would gain any clearance just push it a little forward.
The dropped ends would be a help if I went to a double-drilled arm and brought the draglink to the knuckle. I don't think they have a long, tapered, dropped end.

If I can bring the tie-rod forward around 2", it will clear the FRONT of the pan, and I won't have to lower the tie-rod (except it ALSO wants to get into the pitman arm).

Dropping the tie-rod, as you have shown, would alleviate the clearance problem all around.

I'm currently looking to flip the arms, probably with a spacer involved, and putting the tie-rod UNDER the arms.

That's the cheapest and most expedient solution. (Along with slicing the oil pan if it can be sliced)

At some point, I can look at a longer arm that might put the tie-rod in front of the pan and away from the pitman arm, but I'm afraid it'd be a wash, since moving the tie-rod forward just moves it more into the drop of the pitman arm and if I lower it at the same time (to miss the pitman) it just gets into the spring.

There's a fine line to walk here.

A bend in the tie-rod that brings it forward to clear the front of the pan would work awesome, too - as long as the hydraulic assist doesn't bend the tie-rod. I probably have enough 1.5x.250 DOM left to do that.

I hope to make another short trip with the Scout this week, then get some help over to swap tops and such and then get it into the shop for a while for the gas/FI swap, address the steering/bump stops, etc so I can work on it in the warmth out of the snow.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:04 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Just tossing this out there, what about pushing the motor back. The ls1 is back far enough that everything clears no issues. Yo push it back and lower it would be easy as relocating the mounts and working over the drive lines.

Just have to watch how much lower you go because of the harmic balancer vs the drag link. Look in front of and below the PS pump and you can see the drag link.

edit: I found a few more pictures of Leona's Scout, bare in mind this is a D44 and it is done with short arms but it works well and you can see how I did this one
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:31 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Got Sunday to get some stuff done - I was hoping to get far enough along before Robert showed up to pick up / drop off engines that he could help me put the top on - and I succeeded.



The Terra bulkhead was a pain. The top was easy. The bulk head fought the entire way.

Top view of the cage complete with CB mount.


I'm thinking the CB (either a 29LTD Classic I have, or one of the SSB Cobras I just picked up) will get mounted at the rear, facing forward. I don't have to change the CB channel very often.

Where the CB is now, I think the Icom 706 will go (or the Ten Tec Scout mobile HF), so I can get my hands on the knob and see the VFO.

That still leaves a 2m hiding somewhere for APRS, and another for voice. At least one can hang under the dash in view, wired up through the in-dash speaker. I have two FT-2800s I can put to use (one voice, one packet) but would really like to get my hands on an FTM-350 or a third D710A. We'll see..

The cage corner was done nicely to get it into the corner of the Terra top as well as could be. Note the washer welded in for reinforcement.




I test fit a stock back seat. The "ears" at the top/sides will need to go, along with the same on the front sides, if there's any hope. Right now it won't sit on the floor and with the cage in place, the front of the seat doesn't fit between the wheel wells and the cage. I might get the cover off and slice and dice.. the Jeep seat is about 8" narrower just eyeballing it.




Since Robert was still hours away and it was a decent day.. the passenger seat came out, the welding blanket was retrieved, and first the sawzall, then the 9" grinder, then the flap-wheel.


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Old 10-09-2011, 08:49 PM   #73 (permalink)
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And then.. hey, I have a couple of sticks of 2x.120 DOM over there... and the shop has one bay open for the moment, so out came the 2" hole saw and then the bender.

80" of DOM, notched, then around the 30" mark I put a ~30 deg bend in it.

I think this shot was 20-25deg.





The 30-deg bend looks better. Still enough tube left I will put a kick in the end and then cut to length. The goal is to have the bar run horizontal those 30" which would put it behind the kids heads, then come down behind the wheel well.

I wanted to get the top on before I got too carried away. Of course, after I did that, I realized that I could come UP from the B-hoop, so maybe a small down-turn at the front is in order to kick the cage up a little closer to the top. OTOH, there's no head liner on the top I installed, so maybe a little extra room is a good thing.

The bend should be well behind the back seat (though not too far). I intend to put a spreader bar in place near the bend.

Now, the crummy thing.. with the Jeep seat in place, I'm having doubts about leaving the horizontal bar in place at all and think I really need to slice out the entire X of the B hoop. The kids won't have any leg room if I don't, and getting to the driver's rear seat will be a real pain with the remnants of the X in the way.

I may have a pair of bucket seats somewhere if I can find them. I thought they were in the shed at my mother's, but couldn't get far enough into it to find them. (I did find the perfect 74/75 truck grille with stuff stacked on top of it though! )

In any case, I think it has to come out.

Now, to the back. Either the shock hoop comes out and gets reworked, or maybe I put flat plate to the sides of it to kick the shocks out a few more inches AND turn the shock eyes so the shock bolt is parallel with the frame, perpendicular to the axle.

Then I'm thinking of an X in the C-hoop behind the rear seat, perhaps coming down to some bushings and tied into the shock hoop (and thus, the frame). Bushings because elsewhere the cage is tied to the body. Having a C-hoop X would make netting easier to keep the gear in the back where it belongs.

Rear legs of the cage should get a little twist to them and come down to the floor inside the corner of the end-caps. Large feet should come over and pick up the rear body mount bolt for good measure.

Robert showed up and we traded engines, and then I talked him into helping me with the Traveltop - which we had to carry around another top, around a rear chunk of 74/75 truck frame, around the Traveler-scrap-trailer, around the 74 single cab, around my Travelette, around the white Travelall, around the car and the 73 Scout II and back to the Snow Scout and on it went.

It's sitting on there at least. Heck, there are still bolts in the quarter panel UNDER the top.




But it was on well enough to get it into the shop, where I have anchors in the ceiling just for lifting hard tops on and off.



The new (racer and wheeler)



The old (wheeler and racer, which is ready for scrap pick up)


Now to check the rear leg fitment, raise the top a bit, tack it, drop the top down with the bolts removed and check fitment again, raise top, weld, build the spreader, check fitment, repeat..

Then pull the fuel tank from the old wheeler and start wiring the FI. I have the harness about ready to go on the shop floor, along with all of the bits for a 350 TBI install.

Michelle reminded me that the Christmas Tree run is coming up the first weekend of December.. dang..

On the steering situation.

I bought two 1" Dana 60 spacers. I'll see about swapping the arms side for side, inverting, and running these spacers to gain me roughly 1".

I confirmed I have half a stick of 1.5x.250 DOM left, and since a bent tie-rod is good enough for Binder, I'm going to track down someone with a 1.5" die and make a new tie-rod with a drop in the center, enough to clear the oil pan by at least 3" (or maybe the 4" where the diff hits the pan). The "flip" is still needed to keep the tie-rod out of the pitman arm, though.

I need to raise the front off the ground and mark how wide the drop needs to be, then get the tube bent.

The good news is the steering box is applying pressure to one side, and the ram to the other, so maybe the tie-rod won't take quite such a beating.
__________________
-Tom
KE7VUX

Last edited by tsm1mt; 10-09-2011 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:21 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2001
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Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,581
To Mas I must say the first pix with the Scout backed in your shop looks Just Bad Ass.

Show the Pirates the plates you got for it.

I am looking forward to seeing you get this on the trail. I am thinking with the tons, 3to1, and Detroits you will have lots of fun you have never had before.
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RIP Ricky, you are missed.

Last edited by JetFxr; 10-10-2011 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:38 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Posts: 141
Tom, when I built a rear cage for my polaris ranger, I bought a 50" seat for the back, but they come in a bunch of lengths and are really comfortable for kiddo's. You could mount it in between the trailer fender wells and they are already set up for 5 points. Just a thought.

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