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Old 02-07-2012, 09:54 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Tip: I use RTV to hold mine in place as I've had issues too. After you pull it apart and put it together and it leaks you will do just about anything to keep from repeating those steps again.
I've put a dab around the rim in about 6 -8 spots and tape that down a left overnight to dry and then put it together. I swear I have the metric ones
the 457's are a bit tight and the 458's are a bit loose.
If the ring slips it will get smashed and it will leak and the o-ring will be toast.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:55 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I have some images from my ram job...

I'll have to see if I can scrounge them up on this laptop...
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:33 PM   #103 (permalink)
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In the initial posts IIRC Robert had already radiused the fenders or 40's and it had a 3" body lift which was to be removed and still allow for the 40's. Is that correct? Is the BL still on the truck? Are those stock SII springs?
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:04 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I pulled the body lift, and yep they were stock springs.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:12 PM   #105 (permalink)
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In the initial posts IIRC Robert had already radiused the fenders or 40's and it had a 3" body lift which was to be removed and still allow for the 40's. Is that correct? Is the BL still on the truck? Are those stock SII springs?
It has (slightly bent) stock SII springs.

I added back in a 1" BCB BL. It has not been outside the shop since I put the 1" BL on, so any outdoor photos thus far are all sans body lift. It has 38s on it right now.

In the rear, the rear edge of the wheel well needs reworked. If you look at a side shot, you can see that the outer fender is cut "this far" and the inner wall of the body tub is clearly visible because the wheel well itself is smaller than the outer quarter panel cut.

If I cut and relieved this area, it would help in the back. I could get out to ~1.5" of clearance on the outside rear, with about 2" of clearance at the front of the rear tire (that I already have).






There was about 1/2" of clearance to the inner wheel well, but 1.5" to the outer fender.

This was as-delivered by JetFxr. The shocks were the bump stops, and they could be adjusted any number of ways, of course.

At rest, the wheel wells look amply large..



This picture was taken after the 1" BL - you can see that the bumper was installed before the black below-the-body-break paint was applied.



I put the body lift on for a few reasons.

I wanted more room to run the FI fuel lines. The LPG carb and air cleaner protruded through the hood, so raising the body 1" would reduce the size of scoop needed to keep water out of the engine.

The 1" BL also means the tires clear that much better, and I could adjust the shock mounts in the rear for a little more up-travel.

Another, really silly but valid, point for the 1" body lift. The nerf bars are welded to the frame, and were tucked up tight to the body.. so tight, I couldn't get more than a booted toe on the things before I put the body lift on. Now they might actually be useful for getting in and out.

At some point, I intend to rework that corner of the rear wheel well - I've avoided it thus far, I've dismantled enough - but at some point, I think it'll happen.

That might be enough to squeeze 39.5 IROKs in place.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #106 (permalink)
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lookin good dude! i need to get out and hang with you guys again
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:53 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Thatís a common problem. My buddy got some replacement rings from www.trailworthyfab.com for like 5 bucks.



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I must need some O rings.. as cool as these wheels are, I am not impressed by their inability to hold air.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #108 (permalink)
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So, the good news is, I need 8" of stroke on the ram. No need to tear it down to adjust the throw.

I need 18.5" collapsed, 26.5" extended, give or take my ability to operate a tape measure.

Bad news is, the ram is phsically too long.

I need to shorten by 4-4.5" from this picture.



The ram takes a 3/4" threaded tie-rod end on both ends (nice!), and has about 3" of threaded hole on both ends.

I think the 3" on the "fixed" end stops at the ram body.

The 3" on the piston equates to the "stick-out" when fully retracted. (3" to the seal)

Three courses of action.

1) buy a new ram (units ready for the TREs seem unusual. I could also consider a 1.5" or 1.75" ram - they're only 38s)

2) move the mounting block (that is welded on and already up against the diff, so maybe a "L" or "C" shaped mount that is welded in about the same position, but hooks/floats over the diff (or is welded to the diff))

3) shorten this ram.

for 3, the easy route is to lop 2" off each end, then shorten each TRE so that I have a little under 1" of thread left for engagement.

The harder, but better route, would be to bore the piston and thread it further, but I believe that's beyond my machining abilities at the moment, even assuming the inside isn't hardened. I would still need to take a little off the other end, since there's only about 3" that can be removed before you get to the seal.

(bore and thread another 3" for a total of 6" of thread, then part it 3" back)
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:09 PM   #109 (permalink)
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If you shorten to 1" you will need to do a good weld around the TRE, I pulled one out of the cylinder end and it was fully engaged I would look at a Great Lakes Offroad cover they are heavy and would be good weld too.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:31 PM   #110 (permalink)
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If you shorten to 1" you will need to do a good weld around the TRE, I pulled one out of the cylinder end and it was fully engaged I would look at a Great Lakes Offroad cover they are heavy and would be good weld too.
I was just looking at the GLO Cover as an option.

Where did you source the block of steel with the taper cut into it?

I'll break out the tape measure again and see about adding a block to the diff cover.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:09 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Salvage yard here, I have more you are welcome too. You may need to fire up that fancy machine to mill the block to fit your needs
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:06 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Diff cover on order. Looks like the distance will be enough that instead of shortening the ram, I'll need to length it.

Perhaps an outer sleeve over the fixed end of the ram, welded in place, to add length a new insert for the threads.

The RuffStuff cover looked like a good choice, too, but for this purpose the GLO cover with the fill hole in the very top seemed right. I wasn't sure if the RuffStuff cover would put the fill hole right where I need to mount the block or not.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #113 (permalink)
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New draglink is built. 44"-ish from hole to hole IIRC. 1.5x.250 DOM with 7/8 inserts and re-used the ends from the original. New red boots to go with 'em, too.

I need to order another ES2233L before I can fabricate the 1.5x.250 DOM tie-rod, too.

Did notice last night that the ram sports what looks like 11/16-18 TREs, both right hand thread.

I think the taper is a little "shallow" and IIRC there were some washers in place to try to compensate.

The fixed end of the ram is just over 1" OD. I need to add 4-5" to the overall length depending on exactly where I re-mount the ram mounting block on the diff cover.

For the fixed end, I'll put some of the 1.5x.250 DOM over top and weld in place, then run a 7/8 insert and a regular 7/8 TRE, common with the rest of the steering.

Should I run a LH thread for any reason?

For the piston/rod end, I think I'm stuck with 11/16-18 thread, which is a common early Ford and CJ TRE. I've asked the Jeepers where I might find the stoutest version of one of these.

--------------

Update 02/15

On the shallow/sloppy holes.. you may recall (I had missed it) that TRE and DLE are different in some cases. Drag link ends having more articulation AND a "deeper" taper.

After fabricating the draglink and installing the ends, I found one end, with a DLE, fit the pitman arm just fine AND fit the high-steer arm just fine.

The other end, a regular TRE, was loose in both holes.

So, the Dana 60 arms appear to be setup for the DLE on both sides, which is why the tie-rod seemed loose when I removed it.

The 11/16 ends on the ram are actually a deeper taper than the TRE and looks like they would go into the ES2233L just fine, perhaps with a washer on the threaded end of the shank only because it looks like it's a close call as to whether the nut would bottom out against the stud or the ES2233L first.

Drag link ends tend to be longer than TREs, so I think I will be shortening my new draglink when the new DLE shows up.

Parts Mike is sending a new ES2233L and matching end for the new tie-rod (1.5x.250 DOM, the stocker will be kept for a spare). A new DLE for the draglink. Another new TRE for the fixed end of the ram, and a few more weld inserts to finish it up.

And to think I just bought a pile of new boots for the existing ends.

Between checking the fitment of this end in that tapered hole and so on last night, I also started cutting on the TBI harness and tossing aside stuff I didn't need. I'm starting to get down to where I need to be.

I need to get a coil pigtail to go to the HEI module, and I need to find a MAP sensor somewhere in my collection..

Oh, and still need to order an 11/16-18 jam nut for the rod of the ram.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:43 AM   #114 (permalink)
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I've been waffling on heims or TREs for the ram.

For now, I'll stick with the TREs and see how it goes.



I'll start with the stock Dana 60 tie-rod in the stock location, with the ram T-ing up into the stabilizer hole and see how that goes. If I don't destroy the stock tie-rod from the ram, I will build a replacement from 1.5x.250 DOM. If I bend the end near the hole, however, plan B is to build the new tie-rod using short ends, and run a heim on the ram with a tube-clamp (with stop rings welded in place - the clamp would only to allow adjustment of the toe-in)

I did get a new 11/16-18 heim from SpeedwayMotors. They are rated at over 11,000lbs so it should do the job if it comes to it. I had to order the jam nut from them anyhow.

My diff cover and Parts Mike shipment arrived.



You can see the difference in length between the drag-link end and the tie-rod end.



The draglink was shortened.


I've turned down the fixed end of the ram - I think enough - for the slip-fit. Not much had to be removed. 1.06" to 0.980 or so.




I wound up using the sawzall to remove the old ram mount, but not until after I tried the plasma and failed. I don't think it's too thick, but it was too hard to get in there and operate it properly.

So now a quick test fit..



Waiting for the shiny new synthetic to drain out of the front and get cleaned up before I test fit the cover and then get the right length extension in place.

Meanwhile...

an old Goldbox distributor has been sacrificed to the Ford gods..




and more holes cut in the firewall..

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Old 02-27-2012, 10:44 AM   #115 (permalink)
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Mig-pliers do well to remove 1/4" studs.



I've stripped the LPG bits from the firewall.




Radiator is drained. I took some out so I could get the coolant temp sensor in, plus the LPG was all plumbed into the coolant system, too.

I then finished draining it so I could get the fan shroud on. The only way I can manage it is to pull the radiator out, set the shroud on the fan, then re-install.

That works out well, too, since I want to re-drill the lower mounting holes on the radiator up about 1", and then re-drill the core-support "down" 1" for the top holes, to compensate for the body lift.

Having the coolant out, however, has me pondering yanking the intake manifold and putting on the TBI intake RustoleumWhite did for me years ago, and then fab up another when the time comes..

I'm making progress on some fronts, and it seems like regressing on others.. the fuel injection is closer, but now with the LPG yanked, it's non-op. At least it ran before this weekend..
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:07 PM   #116 (permalink)
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OK, so on to plan C for the hydraulic assist.

With the stock tie-rod in place, the 11/16 TRE stud doesn't have enough reach to engage the reamed hole without the ram body hitting the tie-rod at full-right-turn.

So.. I already have one 11/16 heim coming from Speedway.

Suggestions for a good tube-clamp for 1.5" OD tube?

New 1.5x.250 tie-rod, slide some 1.75x.095 rings on it. Position a tube-clamp to hang the heim off the side far enough the ram body doesn't contact the tie-rod, and weld the 1.75 rings as stops in case the clamp decides to walk.

I'm thinking clamp for alignment purposes, but I could get lazy and just weld two tabs to the tie-rod and call it a day.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:04 AM   #117 (permalink)
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I welded tabs right onto the tie rod - it wasn't like I planned to be making a bunch of alignement adjustments....
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:54 AM   #118 (permalink)
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I welded tabs right onto the tie rod - it wasn't like I planned to be making a bunch of alignement adjustments....
I've ordered a clamp from PolyPerformance, and even let them weld on the tabs with the 5/8" hole..

On the one hand, this isn't something to drive every day, on the other, I tend to drive to the trail head and often that's 30 miles on pavement, and we all know how rapidly good tires wear.. so I'll try to keep it aligned.

Looks like the 1.5" tie-rod may get friendly with the GLO diff cover, too. The stock D60 unit was pretty close.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:11 AM   #119 (permalink)
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While I wait for the brown truck to deliver more parts..

I have the vapor/liquid separator plumbed and finally mounted. A real pain to do through the quarter panel when the access panel was bed-lined in place, then a battery smashed against it, and a rollbar leg in the neighborhood (truth is, I think it'll still come out, but fought against doing it)




The filler isn't centered in the hole, but I just wasn't in the mood to loosen any of the bolts inside the quarter panel to adjust it. My arms are just not long enough to do it easily.

A shield of some sort might be a good idea..



I had a little more work to do following the body lift. Robert said it never overheated without a shroud, but...



I redrilled the core support for the upper hole, down 1".


Then redrilled the radiator up 1" for the lower hole.


It only took two or three R&Rs of the radiator to get it right, but now the shroud is on and the fan blades don't rub (at least, without me n the throttle it doesn't rub)

I did get one of the 11/16-18 by 5/8 rod-ends from Speedway and it threads in just fine.. just waiting on it's mate. I shouldn't even need to lengthen the ram.. now that I already turned it down.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:42 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Slight progress this weekend - we were out of town.

Poly Performance parts arrived. Tube clamp, two tabs for the clamp for the ram, and then two others I ordered for the diff cover.




I made a mistake. At first, I thought the two tabs for the clamp came pre-welded (which seemed odd that they would get it just right all of the time for all heim combos, but what do I know) - they're not. Second, because of the first, I didn't realize I could order the tabs by themselves - the "tabs" group on their website didn't list the tapered "ram mount" tabs picture, so I bought the U-shaped tabs, drilled them out from 9/16 to 5/8, and then discovered there is too much material around the hole to clear the jam nut.

I could use a washer or two to widen the spacing, but instead ordered another pair of the tapered tabs. The freight bill is more than the tabs.

I did have some help Friday night..





On Sunday I only managed to get the tabs welded to the diff and then get it powder coated.



I have 10 B7 studs coming this week from Fastenal to mount the diff cover. I have not been able to find any "high-nuts" in 3/8-16 (only 3/8-24). The recessed/counter sunk holes are going to be a problem. I may resort to a) washers b) short tube spacers c) coupling nuts to secure the diff cover.

With it powder coated and welded, I can get the diff cover back on as soon the studs arrive.

(There is still some concern about the tie-rod hitting the cover, but I may be OK. The stock tie-rod comes very close at full RIGHT, but has a gap at FULL left so we'll see how my 1.5" DOM unit works out. The LH tie-rod end from PartsMike should be here soon)

It was a nice enough day to have the door open (which is good when you want to run the oven - you can't be in the shop at the same time)

Still a mess going on..

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Old 03-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Tom...wouldn't you be able to just use a SHCS in those recessed holes on the diff cover?
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:04 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Tom...wouldn't you be able to just use a SHCS in those recessed holes on the diff cover?
Socket-head-cap-screw? Or..

I could use an allen head screw with good results, but when I was researching this setup, I saw some references to bolts working loose when used as a mount for the hydraulic ram, and that stud mounting was the way go to in that situation.

So I ordered studs.

But the studs are 3/8-NC (I couldn't find any 3/8-NC / 3/8-NF B7 studs, though maybe I didn't look hard enough - looks like some Mopar bellhousings or something might have had the right setup, at least available from ARP at 10x the cost of what I have in it).

So I need a 3/8 NC nut to go with the stud. The counter-sunk holes are pretty much 9/16" diameter, so when you put a normal 3/8 nut in place, the corners of the nut rub the hole.

Further, the counter-sink depth is pretty much the height of a normal 3/8 nut, so without a washer or other spacer, I won't be able to get a wrench on it to tighten it.

I can find LARGER nuts for 3/8-NC, but haven't found any smaller/thinner units (sort of like the reduced head header-bolts you can get that are 3/8-NC with a 12pt 1/2" head rather than a 9/16")

I can find "tall" 3/8 nuts, but only NF, not NC.

Coupling nuts are readily had in 3/8-NC, but they're probably only Grade 2, Grade 5 if I'm lucky. Maybe there is enough thread engagement to make up for it.

Triumphs used a 3/8-NC lug nut, which are hard to find but available, but they're all tapered on the end, where I would want a lug nut for a square-shouldered mag wheel.

ATVs also use a 3/8-NC lug nut, and maybe I can just buy a dozen of those (tall lug-nuts) and then remove the tapered/conical seat area to make a flat spot.

I'd like to find a shoulder nut, but no such luck, except for some expensive engine rocker stud setups.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:38 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Tom, not to hijack, but I have ruff stuff diff covers and I wanted to weld tabs to the frt one for a cylinder assist. Should I be looking at using studs for mtg the cover? I wondered how strong those bolts would be.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:57 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Tom, not to hijack, but I have ruff stuff diff covers and I wanted to weld tabs to the frt one for a cylinder assist. Should I be looking at using studs for mtg the cover? I wondered how strong those bolts would be.
I did a bunch of research before I bought the cover, and somewhere here on Pirate I found a comment from GLO that you wanted to mount it with studs if you're using it for a ram, since it did tend to work the bolts loose otherwise and pour gear lube on the trail at the best possible moment.

GLO used to offer a stud kit, but don't seem to now.

I found lots of Gr2 all-thread and studs, but found only one (2.25" IIRC) stronger stud (B7) at Fastenal in 3/8-16. I figured if I was going to stud it, I might as well use some strong studs, right?

Shipped, it was around $2 a stud. I think they're $1 each, with another $10-ish for shipping. My local Fastenal doesn't stock it. Maybe I could get it sans-freight if I went to the store, but a) it's inconvenient to go there TWICE, once to order, once to pick up and b) it might cost me $10 in fuel anyhow..

Still leaves me with the problem of nuts for the studs. I shouldn't have opted for the counter-bored bolt holes.

I'm contemplating opening up the counter-bore from the current 9/16 or 5/8 to maybe 3/4", but that causes me concern that I'll a) get close to the edge and b) get a bit into the weld that has the cover to the ring. The larger bore would let me use a regular 9/16 socket and 3/8 nuts though.

A short spacer would do the job just fine, so long as I cut it square (though it really makes the extra money for the counter-bore rather foolish). I can get the square cut if I part the spacers on the lathe. I could then run Gr8 nuts like I want to.

The coolest option would have been to skip the counter-bore, then put a 60-deg taper on the hole myself, and use ATV lug-nuts. That would be the best route to keep it secure and eliminate any slop in the system (and thus, the chance of the cover coming off)

I won't have a chance to do anything else until Thursday or so.. plenty of time to rethink things.

Ahh.. Here is the post

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Originally Posted by Greatlakeoffroad View Post
Did I mention we are now offering stud kits? Studs? Yes I know some of the other guys throw those away as useless.....Not sure why? (yes when was the last time you saw a head bolt being a countersunk bolt?) Again not my problem, however since we actually wheel rigs and have real world experience not just hear say. We know that a stud is the best bet for overall strength. Have I ran socket head cap screws and countersunk bolts before and stretched them both? The answer is yes, I also have witnesses to this fact that I blew my gasket seal not once but twice same trip. However I only did this when I used my cover as both a winch down front point and also the mounting point for a double ended ram. Not once have I ever had issues w/ regular bolts when all I was doing was wheeling my rig. This means both are just as good as the other, period. Now the additional forces applied to the bolts are what did my seals in. Thus studs are the only way to go for overall strength not a single issue since I went to studs. So I guess we can get over any nasty lies that are being spread. The term shear point is getting thrown around alot lately however out of context it might be. Realize negative advertising is only that and it gets you no where. Thanks for your business, Shawn
BTW, I went with the GLO cover primarily because I was afraid the Ruff Stuff fill plug was going to be right where I wanted to mount the ram (and I want the ram as in-line with the tie-rod as possible). The GLO cover put the fill plug where I didn't care.
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Last edited by tsm1mt; 03-06-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:55 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Ah-hah.

APR-301-8341 is a set of 12-point 3/8-16 8740 chromoly nuts.

They use a 7/16 12pt socket. Conveniently sold in a set of 10, for $14-ish.
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