Daily Topic - Front SOA - 10/17

[jdjanda]

Today's topic front SOA problems and issues using what axle:

• Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm
  
• Caster: twist, no twist
  
• Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines
  
• Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts
  
• Housing: grind a flat, build up a new pad
  
• Drive line: CV, no CV
  
• Misc. problems

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: jdjanda ]

[jdjanda]

• Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm
  Z-Link for now, just need to find the ream, time and money limit me on this.
  
• Caster: twist, no twist
  I'm using a IH truck housing, when I cut it down I'll add in the caster 6 degrees.
  
• Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines
  Most likely new extended lines, my current lines are shot
  
• Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts
  New mounts, I'll fab up something
  
• Housing: grind a flat, build up a new pad
  The housing I'm using is SOA already, I will need to grind off the old pad on the drivers side and weld on a new one.
  
• Drive line: CV, no CV
  Square baby!! I'll buy a new High Angle non-CV down the road.
  
• Misc. problems
  

[Scout Dude]

The best thing that I did on my Six-Foe is put a Jeep Wagoneer axle under the front. I don't have the zero caster/pinion angle thing.
Also:
1) already has flat-top knuckles
2) Has small bearing spindles to convert to ford rotors
3) internally splined hubs

I used Rubicon Express anti-wrap perches because they are taller than most. This allowed me to weld the tube side on. The other side, I ground the perch way down inside until it was level with the other one. I then had a certified welder buzz the cast side on.

Used extended braided brake lines for a wagoneer on the front.

Used stock bottom shock mount; fabbed my upper one. Now I run 9012's up front.

And a huge square tube d-shaft with 6" of stuff and 13" of droop...no cv.

The one item left is my steering. I have to switch out my steering box. Until then, I don't know if I will be going hi-steer or cross-over.

Did I forget anything?

[Cliffy [JD]]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Today's topic front SOA problems and issues using what axle:

• Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm
  
  I have a custom crossover (using rockstomper components) that I'm hoping to incorporate in when I put my shortened 3/4-ton D44 (or if I can get a D60) in.
  
• Caster: twist, no twist
  
  I guess that would depend on the Degree I end up with after I make the switch. I guess I could figure what it would be before hand, but I like to SEE results not figure them...
  
• Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines
  
  I bought myself some skyjacker 6"extended braided steel brake lines, but I'm not sure if I can use these without much modification. I've been thinking of swapping in a GM P/U proportioning valve anyway so maybe I can make it happen.
  
• Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts
  
  I will be using rancho RS9000's like I HAD on my blazer. Hopefully they won't get stolen this time. <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0"> and probably on ford style tall upper mounts.
  
  
• Housing: grind a flat, build up a new pad
  
  Well obviously my GM housing will be set-up for spring over.
  
  
• Drive line: CV, no CV...
  
  Hopefull no CV, but mabe if I end up with some type of doubler or overdrive unit. I think it will be necessary since mine will be a street rig also. In which case I will be calling up High Angle Driveline or tom woods...probably the prior though since I'll also be running my caddy 500.
  
  
• Misc. problems
  
  I can't say I know of any misc. problems. But I'd like to hear of some potential ones if any of you guys know any.
  
  Maybe HOW to adjust the caster (on front) besides moving the spring mounting points higher and lower or using degree shims (I imagine those would be as bad as using lift blocks on the front axle)

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: jdjanda ]</STRONG>

[Cliffy [JD]]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>
The one item left is my steering. I have to switch out my steering box. Until then, I don't know if I will be going hi-steer or cross-over.

Did I forget anything?</STRONG>

Am I stupid....what is the difference between Hy-Steer and Cross-over???

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>
Am I stupid....what is the difference between Hy-Steer and Cross-over???</STRONG>

Hi-steer= drag link & tie rod over the leaves

Cross-over= Drag link mounted to high arm. Tie rod in stock location.

[RustoleumWhite]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>Hi-steer= drag link & tie rod over the leaves

Cross-over= Drag link mounted to high arm. Tie rod in stock location.</STRONG>

Actually, no. Or atleast not how *I* have come to know it:

Cross-over: Stock Scout. Draglink CROSSES OVER from the steering box to the OPPOSITE side of the truck steering knuckle. Different from IH p/u and Cliffhanger's Blazer, which had "fore-and-aft" steering.

"High-steer" would be specifically bringing the DRAG LINK above the springs. To my knowledge, there is not much termination difference if you bring them both up or just the draglink.

Atleast that’s How I've heard it defined and have come to understand the two terms.

[RustoleumWhite]

Chev d44, narrowed to fit Scout II shafts (3.25 long side, 3.5" short, but I'll double check that) 8º shim welded to perches (for "proper" CV alignment), rotate knuckles (since that are already off) for 6º of caster or so.

Knuckles: GM flat-tops, both sides (looks better). For right now, GM backing plates and calipers, Scout II D30 spindles (drum), Scout II D44 hub and rotors. Chevy 2wd pu brake lines (nice and long and cheap).

Ben's arms (both drives and passenger) allowed me the use of the stock tie-rod and drag link, although the draglink is a DOM unit from Gryphin Racing.

Shaft, for now will be a stock Scout II shaft, no CV. If I get excessive vibs, then maybe a CV, but I'll save the $$ for now for the shaft with the RC housing I'm working on.

Or atleast that’s the plan when I get the weekend to do it all in (ggrrrrrr, what happened to all my time!!!)

[Zane Znamenacek]

Mines a little different. My front is not SOA, it's SUA with a shackle flip, but the way it's done, it's actually taller than some of the SOA's I've seen. So I've dealt with many of the same issues.

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Today's topic front SOA problems and issues using what axle:
[list][*]Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm </STRONG>

I went high steer with '75 full size IH knuckles. Not to clear the springs, but to protect the steering rods and also to maintian some semblance of correct steering geometry.

<STRONG>

[*]Caster: twist, no twist </STRONG>

Twisted for 5-6 degrees caster and a CV shaft. Total twist, I think, was 20 degrees.

<STRONG>

[*] Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines</STRONG>

Extended braided lines.

<STRONG>

[*] Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts</STRONG>

New upper and lower mounts.

<STRONG>

[*] Drive line: CV, no CV</STRONG>

CV all the way. Had to on the rear, too.

<STRONG>

[*] Misc. problems</STRONG>

Nothing major.

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Monster-Z ]

[tsm1mt]

"Little Devil"

Pre-RS.

74 Chevy 1/2T .5" wall uncut D44. TriCounty arm, Gryphin Racing draglink for High-steer/quick-ratio.

No twist. Plenty of caster stock.

2wd '74 Chevy brake lines. Mounts relocated to bump stop brackets.

Old shock mounts buzzed off (and run over, sidewalling one of my tires.. d'oh). New square-tubing "hoops" welded together for 14" travel shocks to slightly modified stock Chevy lower mounts.

Housing - ground the spring perches to fit the U-bolts against the narrower 2" springs.

Driveline - STOCK! from a D30 SII. Never pulled apart, only bottomed it when the front suspension failed.

Misc problems? It flexed too well. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Springs turned into an "S" from too much right foot.


Now, post RS, I have XLC front springs, no-lift RS, a Tom Wood's non-CV front driveshaft, too much caster, too low of a pinion, but otherwise the same. Problem now is the pitman arm acts as a bump stop some times. Gotta cut the RS "towers" off and lengthen.

Plan for my trail rig?

HP'44, grind/weld a new perch in, Chevy flat-tops, Gryphin Racing long-steering arms, GRT tie-rod/draglink. Try to set the caster when I retube the HP center section.

2wd Chevy hoses again, Chevy calipers, F250/K20 hubs/rotors.

Uncut.

RS or no RS.. not sure yet, but w/o the RS, I may not need a new front driveshaft, thanks to the HP.

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>
Actually, no. Or atleast not how *I* have come to know it:

Cross-over: Stock Scout. Draglink CROSSES OVER from the steering box to the OPPOSITE side of the truck steering knuckle. Different from IH p/u and Cliffhanger's Blazer, which had "fore-and-aft" steering.

"High-steer" would be specifically bringing the DRAG LINK above the springs. To my knowledge, there is not much termination difference if you bring them both up or just the draglink.

Atleast that’s How I've heard it defined and have come to understand the two terms.</STRONG>

Around here..at least the people that I talk to, they go by the def that I mentioned earlier. However, I also know that every obsticle on the Rubicon has at least 3 different names, so it makes sense that people have different names for the steering set-up.

Either way...When I get my Steering box finished. I will try to put my whole system above the springs. If it won't fit, then just the draglink will go above.

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>

• Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm
  Z-Link for now, just need to find the ream, time and money limit me on this.
  
• Caster: twist, no twist
  I'm using a IH truck housing, when I cut it down I'll add in the caster 6 degrees.
  
• Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines
  Most likely new extended lines, my current lines are shot
  
• Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts
  New mounts, I'll fab up something
  
• Housing: grind a flat, build up a new pad
  The housing I'm using is SOA already, I will need to grind off the old pad on the drivers side and weld on a new one.
  
• Drive line: CV, no CV
  Square baby!! I'll buy a new High Angle non-CV down the road.
  
• Misc. problems
  

</STRONG>

Talkd to D and C. They have an insert for this. You just drill out the arm with a straight bit, put this insert in place, weld it so it stays, then slap your z-link onto it.

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>Chev d44, narrowed to fit Scout II shafts (3.25 long side, 3.5" short, but I'll double check that) 8º shim welded to perches (for "proper" CV alignment), rotate knuckles (since that are already off) for 6º of caster or so.

Knuckles: GM flat-tops, both sides (looks better). For right now, GM backing plates and calipers, Scout II D30 spindles (drum), Scout II D44 hub and rotors. Chevy 2wd pu brake lines (nice and long and cheap).

Ben's arms (both drives and passenger) allowed me the use of the stock tie-rod and drag link, although the draglink is a DOM unit from Gryphin Racing.

Shaft, for now will be a stock Scout II shaft, no CV. If I get excessive vibs, then maybe a CV, but I'll save the $$ for now for the shaft with the RC housing I'm working on.

Or atleast that’s the plan when I get the weekend to do it all in (ggrrrrrr, what happened to all my time!!!)</STRONG>

This weekend???

Bwaaahhhaaaaaa. Uh huh. I'll believe it when I see it!!!

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[RustoleumWhite]

you will carfully note "hooptie", I stated WHEN I GET A WEEKEND FREE.

This sucks, I haven't had a complete FREE weekend in about 6 months........

I wish people would stop getting married... course husky games don't help any <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[HooperSSII]

GM Axle

Narrowed, turned to 12 degrees
Shimmed perches 7 degrees for pumpkin tilt for a final 5 degrees of caster

Recessed Ubolt plates to capture the springs

Extended brake lines
Z-Link for now. Z under steering arm.

Steering arm drilled and D&C insert tapped in
Redrilled center pin hole in driver perch to align driver springs.
Lowered bottom shock mounts to be level with middle of axle tube.

Raised upper shock mounts to be 4 inches above top of frame rail.

No change to driveline.
No CV joint

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Hooper ]

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite:
<STRONG>you will carfully note "hooptie", I stated WHEN I GET A WEEKEND FREE.

This sucks, I haven't had a complete FREE weekend in about 6 months........

I wish people would stop getting married... course husky games don't help any <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Priorities.

I remember someone giving me a hard time about spending time with significant other, rather than wheeling every weekend. Hmmm, whom might that have been????

[Hayraker]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Today's topic front SOA problems and issues using what axle:

• Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm
  
• Caster: twist, no twist
  
• Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines
  
• Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts
  
• Housing: grind a flat, build up a new pad
  
• Drive line: CV, no CV
  
• Misc. problems

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: jdjanda ]</STRONG>

STEERING: big ol' ugly Z link, built half ass the first time out of stock drag link with small gussets, failed on the trail (looked more like a U link)

Rebuilt with several pounds of 1/2" plate reinforcement.

CASTER: less than zero, hit the ditches if you see me on the highway in this thing.

BRAKE LINES: got the extensions, then ended up replacing the lines. So I now have new extensions and new stock lines.

SHOCKS: built new lower mounts on axle tubes. Will put shock towers up top when I get longer shocks.

HOUSING: modified a new pad, moved the little block from the passenger side to the driver side to level it out. Yes I know <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

DRIVELINE: no CV thus the negative caster in the front, gonna turn them knuckles one of these years.

[Chad H]

Originally posted by Hayraker


STEERING: big ol' ugly Z link, built half ass the first time out of stock drag link with small gussets, failed on the trail (looked more like a U link)

Rebuilt with several pounds of 1/2" plate reinforcement.

CASTER: less than zero, hit the ditches if you see me on the highway in this thing.

BRAKE LINES: got the extensions, then ended up replacing the lines. So I now have new extensions and new stock lines.

SHOCKS: built new lower mounts on axle tubes. Will put shock towers up top when I get longer shocks.

HOUSING: modified a new pad, moved the little block from the passenger side to the driver side to level it out. Yes I know <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

DRIVELINE: no CV thus the negative caster in the front, gonna turn them knuckles one of these years.

Can ya fill me in on this one
HOUSING: modified a new pad, moved the little block from the passenger side to the driver side to level it out. Yes I know <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Cliffy [JD]]

I thought that little pad was only necessary when using a stock axle "sprung under" There are no LEFT of RIGHT springs, so if you do a SOA and get the axle spring perchs the same height there should be no need for the "PAD"

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
I thought that little pad was only necessary when using a stock axle "sprung under" There are no LEFT of RIGHT springs, so if you do a SOA and get the axle spring perchs the same height there should be no need for the "PAD"

The factory "lowering block" was installed because Scouts have a tendency to lean.

You *should* swap the pads to the driver's side with an SOA to give the Scout the correct tilt and make it sit level.

Or you could just build your perches accordingly.

I think Hayraker was talking about his front "lift block" and the "I know" was.. he knows it's a "no no" technically speakin'.

[Cliffy [JD]]

Well that's good to know. Thanks

[Hayraker]

Originally posted by tsm1mt


The factory "lowering block" was installed because Scouts have a tendency to lean.

You *should* swap the pads to the driver's side with an SOA to give the Scout the correct tilt and make it sit level.

Or you could just build your perches accordingly.

I think Hayraker was talking about his front "lift block" and the "I know" was.. he knows it's a "no no" technically speakin'.

Wow, someone finally understands my jibberish

[nwmud]

Steering: Hi-steer, Z-link, welded arm
No idea pf what will be used?

Caster: twist, no twist
Twist it up. The knuckles are loose and waiting for the truck to be put together.

Brake lines: new extended lines, extensions, bend the hard-lines
New extended lines will be used, unless I find some used ones...

Shocks: extend the brackets, new mounts
new mounts

Housing: grind a flat, build up a new pad
Ground off and working on new pad.

Drive line: CV, no CV
Who needs a driveline? I got a bare naked frame. maybe someday I will have a driveline. Plan to use custom made driveline in front. CV for rear.

Misc. problems TIME!!!!!!
I need more time to work on the truck....

Ritch