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Old 10-21-2001, 10:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Post Daily Topic - Cage designs - 10/22

Cage designs & why. Pre-fab, build your own. What material did you use, any square cages out there. Come Awwwwnnn, let us cage challenged folks in on you secrets.

Here are my specs, need to find someone to build it.

Material, 2 or 1.75 .120 HREW

Front hoop will be brought down tight to the pillars, with the hoop passing behind the dash with the cross bar behind the dash. Standard hoop behind the front seats, with a rear hoop out back. The cage will be tied to the frame. Proper gusseting, between bars, with additional gussets tied to the window frame, and key areas of the body. If I had the extra cash to buy a bender I'd fab it myself, but I think money wins over time on this one. I'll put it out to bid next spring.

Joe
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Old 10-22-2001, 07:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I've seen a lot of people just build the cage off of the original roll bar. Unfortunately, Some plumber apparently owned my and set up water works in the back. If you look closely, the bends were collapsed when they created this POS...safe...real safe.

<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/Old Roll Bar.jpg">

So 6 months ago, I started talking to this guy about building my cage and we start planning. I have a 1/2 cab only and I wanted to still be able to use it. Around May, I had him build the rear part and it turned out sweet.
<IMG width=800 height=600 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/Roll Bar side view.jpg">

Then, I tried (repeatedly) to hook up with him again to get the rest finished but he is too damn busy. So, I confirmed last Friday, my bender is shipping out today <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

This is the start of what I plan on doing. The dashed lines are the bars that will run on the inside that you can't see from the pics. I have already cut away most of my dash. The new dash will be aluminum panel with Autometer gauges. It will mount to the cage only, not to the body. My Cadilliac (sp?) telescoping steering column will also mount to the cage. As the pics mention, my defroster hoses will connect to the cross bar below the windshield and I will drill defrosting holes in the top of the bar. Also, my seats will be incorporated into the cage as well.
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/Cage design.jpg">
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/Interior cage design.jpg">

That's it so far...any thoughts?
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Old 10-22-2001, 11:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Cage designs & why. Pre-fab, build your own. What material did you use, any square cages out there. Come Awwwwnnn, let us cage challenged folks in on you secrets.
</STRONG>
Wow, this is a slow topic today.. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Race rig? Build. Currently a cage I inherited made from Sch40 <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">uke: pipe.. I want to replace it with 1.75x.120 or 2x.120 tubing (as soon as the steel shop gets back to me with a quote, I'll know..)

Custom 'cage. It'll incorporate seat mounts n' belt mounts (like my current one) and clear the trans tunnel better than the current setup. Back bar, dash bar. Rear kickers will go to the end of the bed where they'll be bolted in with the rear body mounts. Front feet'll get the front body mounts.

Sloped door bars for triangulation and side impact. Probably more triangulation when I get everything else taken care of.

I'm figuring 100' of tubing.

Trail rig currently has a GUS Repro 5pc 'bar. I have a Smitty SC88 front kit to install.

I'll probably start with that, but then add in some features similar to the race truck - seats mounted to the 'cage in particular.

Rear legs will need to be cut off the GUS 'bar to make room for the wheel tubs, so maybe a new "rear hoop" at the end of the Scout and more stringers front to back.

For my pickup, I'm thinking of a 'cage as well.

Make three hoops and stand 'em in place. I think I can use straight legs on the front even and not worry about bending around the dash.

Stand 'em up and put "stubs" on each of the 3 main hoops such that I can stand 'em up inside the cab and use a "sleeve" to couple each hoop to the other. Back-bar behind the front seats and rear bench. Probably skip the triangulated door bars n' such on the pickup and settle for gussets in the corners.

I can then put 3pt belts in, tied to the 'cage. Even a 3pt belt for the middle passenger on the rear bench.

I'd also like to rig it so I can belts running from the rear seat "back bar" down to the front of the rear seat, making something of a "cargo net" - primarily for any sleeping passengers.

Just need to find out how much tubing is going to cost and then order the bend and cash out some vacation. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

If I can't get the materials for a good price, my back up choice is Art Morrison.. they'll deliver the 'cage pre-bent and pre-notched.. just weld it n' go.
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Old 10-22-2001, 12:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm right in the middle of building mine.

My design is a hoop at the rear, a hoop in the front, and a double hoop in the middle (bolted together with bushings so I can remove half the cage at a time, whenever needed). A few runners to connect it all together, and that it.

I'm connecting to the frame at the front and rear body mounts. Not quite sure how to tie the middle hoops in yet.

For material, I'm using 1.75" DOM (may use ECW for some of it) at .125 wall thickness. Bought a sweet little bender at Low Buck Tools. Should easily pay itself off after caging all my rigs.
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Old 10-22-2001, 12:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monster-Z:
<STRONG>For material, I'm using 1.75" DOM (may use ECW for some of it) at .125 wall thickness. Bought a sweet little bender at Low Buck Tools. Should easily pay itself off after caging all my rigs.</STRONG>
This is making me nuts, I need to break down and buy a dam bender. How do you like the unit. Did you go with the $500.00 dollar model? I just priced a Model 3 with 1.75 die for $400.00, that's with no options.

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Old 10-22-2001, 12:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>This is making me nuts, I need to break down and buy a dam bender. How do you like the unit. Did you go with the $500.00 dollar model? I just priced a Model 3 with 1.75 die for $400.00, that's with no options.

Joe</STRONG>
Online or did you call?

I bought a 10T Portapower over a month ago in preparation for a JD2.. I screwed up and put too much (poly) pipe in the floor for radiant floor heat and didn't bother to mark off any spots where there WASN'T pipe.. so nothing gets anchored to the shop floor. D'oh. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Darn.. guess I have to go hydraulic. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
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Old 10-22-2001, 01:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>I screwed up and put too much (poly) pipe in the floor for radiant floor heat </STRONG>
Radiant floor heat? Boy you are a wimp
<IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

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Old 10-22-2001, 01:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>Online or did you call?</STRONG>
Online here:
Model 3 bender

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Old 10-22-2001, 01:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I looked at the Williams low buck model a while back but I see limitations with operating it at odd angles. I've seen a JD2 up close and it was a real nice set up. Don't get em wrong, I have heard nothing but great stuff about the Low-buck tools, I just don't like their bender.

As for my JD2, it was around $1000 for the bender, die, and the port-a-power ram. I'm going to use a std port-a-power hand pump cause $450 for a air over hydraulic is way too much and it's too loud to use all the time in my hood. Also, I have a bunch of friends who all need tube work done so It should pay for itself shortly.
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Old 10-22-2001, 01:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Radiant floor heat? Boy you are a wimp
<IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

Joe</STRONG>
I'm an old man, I need a warm shop! <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Now, if I lived in Kalifornia radiant floor heat would probably be a waste - I'd be pumping cold water through the floor to cool the place off!

But when your winter conditions are like this:



You quickly learn the value of the Carhartt Arctic coveralls I'm wearing in the pic. That's in addition to normal warm clothes, the reasonably warm hat and ear-muffs and gloves I'm wearing.. and that was back when the hardtop would still go on "Tigger"!

Brrrrrr. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Besides.. it wasn't "that expensive" to set up compared to the rest of the garage.

Quote:
<STRONG>Online here:
Model 3 bender</STRONG>
I hadn't seen that place before.. but it looks like they're the same pricing as the

JD Squared site.

I'm bummed they don't list a good price on the hydro + degree ring. I don't want the "manual" stuff at all... but if I could get the degree ring for $30.. why not!

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Old 10-22-2001, 02:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Here is a picture of an idea I had when i heard that my friends were getting a tube bender.

or http://73project.cornbinder.com/graphics/cageideas.jpg

I would like to remove the front fenders completely, like "Cain". I would also like to keep the roof-rack off the roof, for enough to install/remove the top. I think I will use 1.5" tube .120 wall, not sure as to the thickness or type of tube to use.
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Old 10-22-2001, 02:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>I looked at the Williams low buck model a while back but I see limitations with operating it at odd angles. I've seen a JD2 up close and it was a real nice set up. Don't get em wrong, I have heard nothing but great stuff about the Low-buck tools, I just don't like their bender.
</STRONG>
The Low-buck looks cool, but it'll only do 90-deg and has a short list of dies - and that doesn't include 2".

I like the IDEA that I can buy square or round dies in all kinds of sizes for the JD. Not that I can afford them all (today, anyhow).. but if someone wants to bend square tubing for something down the road, they can just buy the die for it..

I just wish the JD2 had 2.25" dies available for exhaust tubing. That would make it completely <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">


Quote:
<STRONG>
As for my JD2, it was around $1000 for the bender, die, and the port-a-power ram. </STRONG>
I'm a cheap SOB, too.. and found a new 10Ton PortaPower on Ebay for $150.

"Someday" maybe I'll get the air/hydraulic pump and a big long ram.. but in the meantime, I should be able to make do.

I'm figuring another $500 for the bender and die.. just need to stop by the steel shop and see what my options are $$$-wise locally. I wouldn't want to have to drive to Canada every time I need tubing. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
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Old 10-22-2001, 02:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>As for my JD2, it was around $1000 for the bender, die, and the port-a-power ram. I'm going to use a std port-a-power hand pump cause $450 for a air over hydraulic is way too much and it's too loud to use all the time in my hood. Also, I have a bunch of friends who all need tube work done so It should pay for itself shortly.</STRONG>
I'm going to skip the hydro setup, for two reasons, one the cost. For as often as I will be using the bender the cost benefit is not there, I'll just use a little elbow grease. Second, I want to mount the bender with 2" tube, so I can mount the unit into a receiver and make the unit somewhat mobile. Hydro just does not fit into the mobile picture.

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Old 10-22-2001, 02:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I guess you guys missed it. There is a How-to Build your own cage in the Nov 2001 issue of 4 Wheel Drive & SUV mag and they use a SII! Looks like a nice set up.

<IMG width=867 height=651 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/SII_CAGE_1.jpg">

<IMG width=799 height=510 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/SII_CAGE_2.jpg">
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Old 10-22-2001, 02:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>I'm going to skip the hydro setup, for two reasons, one the cost. For as often as I will be using the bender the cost benefit is not there, I'll just use a little elbow grease. Second, I want to mount the bender with 2" tube, so I can mount the unit into a receiver and make the unit somewhat mobile. Hydro just does not fit into the mobile picture.

Joe</STRONG>

Y'know, I caught myself pondering a flow-control valve, hydraulic cylinder, and a Saginaw power steering pump... either engine mounted, or attached to an electric motor..

Set yourself up with a full hydro mobile bending service. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
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Old 10-22-2001, 02:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Old Scout:
<STRONG>I guess you guys missed it. There is a How-to Build your own cage in the Nov 2001 issue of 4 Wheel Drive & SUV mag and they use a SII! Looks like a nice set up.
</STRONG>
They used a Mittler Bros ($3k?) bender. I remember readin' a first installment (I think) - I'll have to look at my latest 4WD&SU for a follow-up or something.. most of the time it's all J**p stuff..
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Old 10-22-2001, 02:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>They used a Mittler Bros ($3k?) bender. I remember readin' a first installment (I think) - I'll have to look at my latest 4WD&SU for a follow-up or something.. most of the time it's all J**p stuff..</STRONG>
ALL Heep stuff?? I'm not so sure. In the same issue and the scout Cage Tech. Three pics of scouts getting it and two are color, Better than the BB!

<IMG width=730 height=578 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/4WD&SUV_3.jpg">
<IMG width=498 height=580 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/4WD&SUV_2.jpg">
<IMG width=496 height=376 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/4WD&SUV_1.jpg">

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: Old Scout ]
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Old 10-22-2001, 03:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sure hope he has high steering tie rod and drag link!!
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Old 10-22-2001, 03:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hooper:
<STRONG>Sure hope he has high steering tie rod and drag link!!</STRONG>
Looks hi-steer, look at the pass spring you can see the 'V' made by the drag and tie rod.

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Old 10-22-2001, 07:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Cage designs & why. Pre-fab, build your own. What material did you use, any square cages out there. Come Awwwwnnn, let us cage challenged folks in on you secrets.....</STRONG>
If I were to build serious cage I think I'd like 1.75"x.188 wall DOM tube. Currently, Snoopy is getting set for a cage made with 2"x.120 wall...to make sure the 2" will handle repeated rolls I'm planning to gusset the crap out of it. I'm also taking out the rear seat and switching it out with a single rear center mounted seat.

Also planning on cutting away the whole floor plan and starting fresh with some major tube work (to hold the fenders in place) and fabbin up a floor out of some spare expanded steel I've got laying around.

As far as benders, I'd use our JD2 Model 4 Hydro Mandral bender. It keeps the corners clean and strong.

As far as actual design, I'm going to put the hoops facing front instead of the conventional side-to-side stuff. Meaning that the driver side hoop will start behind the driver and move bend forward along the top of the window/door contour and then down into the floor about where my feet are - same on the passenger side. The spreaders will actually run across the cab above the windsheild and behind the drivers head. The CB bars will be criss-cross (x-shape) for added side-to-side strength as well as make room for my big ol mellon <IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0">

Then I'd use door-bars to strengthen the hoops with new seat bases built into them. The back would be a standard "fast-back" design with the frame extensions sticking through where the current gas tanks are - the rear spreaders will also be attached via additional cage work to the hoops. A cross section (in back) will allow for the mounting of a 30 gallon fuel cell, tool kit/box, and the single rear seat.

Sections of the back will be built to allow easy mounting of the spare and stuff. I've almost secured some 38x14.50 SS-TSL/SX's for Snoopy and I've already got the T18 and a Dana20 (soon to have a 3.15:1 Terra Low gearset) installed.

Paint and some light body work will be done by a good buddy of mine in Penrose as soon as I get the cage built and the Half-cab welded back on. All in all, I think it'll be a fairly sweet setup.

As soon as I find some time my D44s will be hitting the trails on someone elses rig and I'm going to 14-bolt rear with our 4-link system and quarter elliptic system and the front will be getting a 3-link coil-over. The cage will then be extended to the front of Snoop and tie-ins will be placed where the inner fenders now sit. But thats another section of the story isnn't it.

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Old 10-22-2001, 08:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snoopy:
<STRONG>If I were to build serious cage I think I'd like 1.75"x.188 wall DOM tube. Currently, Snoopy is getting set for a cage made with 2"x.120 wall... <IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Wouldn't .188 tube be a litle overkill? You'd almost need the extra material to support all the weight from the cage.

Are you using one of the JD benders in your shop? Have you used it manual with a handle to bend anything. I am wondering if I am kidding myseld by thinking I can bend 2x.120.

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Old 10-23-2001, 12:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Well let's see, I'm planning on doing something a bit different for the rock fridge. Mostly I'll be it for looks since It'll be a rolling (literally) <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> billboard for my failing business, and I've seen the reaction you can get from a well built cage that was some style to it. But it'll handle some tough rolls too. It'll be built out 1.75" x .120 wall, be 8 point, and bent on my JD2 model 3 bender. The design is kind of hard to describe but it'll look like a spider web from above. Here's a crappy doodle. There'll be a main hoop behind the front seats and from the center of that hoop the spreaders will go out to the other 6 points. The front hoops will pass through the top of the dash to avoid unneccasary bends with another spreader right beneath the dash. The rear will go to the floor which will be tubbed out to give more room since the truck will have a gas tank under the rear like a Scout 2. All the bends on the hoops will be gusseted to to one another to provide the spider web look and strength. The cage will be tied to the frame at 6 of the 8 points with the seats and belts tied into it. Then I'll go through the firewall with 1.75 to the front of the Scout where it'll attach to a hoop over the radiator. The front inner fender wells will be sawzalled out and I'll branch of the 1.75" with 1" x .120 wall to which the fenders, grille, and other accessories will be mounted. I'll have to make a few slight changes to conform to ARCA rules but that's the basic idea. I hope that made some sence because it took quite a while to type <IMG SRC="smilies/sleep.gif" border="0">.

Of course the Scout is on backyard duty right now until I get my bender converted over to hydraulic and a place where I can put the poor truck back together. I also have 2 leads on front Dana 60s I need to check out so I can hopefully run some big meats without breakage. Then the rock fridge should be ready to bend over the ARCA stock modified class smack some bitches up. Of course I'm accepting donations <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
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Old 10-23-2001, 04:55 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I got a JD2 model 3 and love it I use it manually and if I used it more I could justify hydro. but not for now. hope to buy some more dies soon. I highly reccomend this bender.
My next bender/fab tool purchase will be a williams notcher.
these Jig a Joint hole saw notchers suck.
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Old 10-23-2001, 06:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Overkiller:
<STRONG>Well let's see, I'm planning on doing something a bit different for the rock fridge. Mostly I'll be it for looks since It'll be a rolling (literally) <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> billboard for my failing business, </STRONG>
Yeah, so what is it you do? <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
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Old 10-23-2001, 06:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>I'm going to skip the hydro setup, for two reasons, one the cost. For as often as I will be using the bender the cost benefit is not there, I'll just use a little elbow grease. Second, I want to mount the bender with 2" tube, so I can mount the unit into a receiver and make the unit somewhat mobile. Hydro just does not fit into the mobile picture.

Joe</STRONG>
Mounting it into a receiver is a good idea. I just didn't want to bolt it to the floor. As for not being portable, I'm using the long ram attached, but it connects to a port-a-power hand pump. It'll go anywhere I need it to.
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