Daily Topic - Drive it vs. Trailer it - 10/25

[jdjanda]

Do you drive it to the trail or do you tow/trailer it to the trail?

There is something to be said about driving it to the trail, wheeling all weekend, then driving to work on Monday. The purpose built rigs are nice, but what’s that say when a driver can run the same lines as the buggies?

In my current mindset I'm a drive it kinda guy. But then again I'm lucky enough to be near the trails. If I ever go to Utah, or Wash I'd prob trailer the beast. Let's hear your thoughts on this.

Joe

[LAME]

Trailer it. I don't have trails near by, so I have to go at least an hour away from home to wheel. The biggest reason I wouldn't want to take my driver wheelin is the Sunday night wrench frenzy. IMO working on a rig is fun, but working on your rig because you have to get to work really, really sucks. It's no fun, and you get pissed at the rig.

If I bust on the trail, and can still trailer it home, then I can work on it at my leisure, and it is not a PITA.

[Scout Dude]

I prefer to drive it there. I think that it says something when you can wheel your rig. Hammer the piss out of it and drive it home. But I also don't think that it has to be your main "get me to work on Monday" vehicle. I also prefer to explore all kinds of areas in the mountains. It would really suck if I had to untrailer my Scout everytime I wanted to head down a dirt road.

However, I do own a tow bar and if I am heading to Moab or some other far place, I am not afraid of using it.

[Cliffy [JD]]

Let's see.

If my scout was set up right now IE: 14bolt/D60 500caddy/TH400/Atlas (or doubler) Then I'd drive it to the trail, no matter how far.

But as it stands any trails more than 1/2 hour away I'd trailer it.

[Zane Znamenacek]

I drive my Scout everywhere. And because of it, I've had to borrow a trailer to get it home twice in the last 2 years.

I plan on driving it when running trails within 30 or 40 minutes from town. But I'd sure love to trailer it when going any farther.

My problem is that my wife also drives her TJ. So if we get a truck and trailer, I need to be able to haul both rigs. Hello 1 ton and gooseneck and hello $$$!

[Scoutillac]

I trailer mine for a couple reasons
1. I have to <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
2. I hate to burn up spendy tires on the cement.
3. I don't want to wear it out street driving, I built it for the trail and that is where I will drive it.

I will drive for a few miles on FS roads and even HWY's to reach a trail head, but that is about it.

[Cliffy [JD]]

Originally posted by Scoutillac:
<STRONG>I trailer mine for a couple reasons
2. I hate to burn up spendy tires on the cement.
I will drive for a few miles on FS roads and even HWY's to reach a trail head, but that is about it.</STRONG>

That is such a DAMN good reason. 1,000 pts to you scoutillac <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0">

[skeetshooter]

You beat me to it Scoutillac,

Let's See?

16x235x75 100.00 dollars
15x18x39.50 Boggers 315.00 dollars

being able to unhook from my trailer at midnight sunday night and leave the broken rig still sitting on it after a hard weekend of wheeling.

PRICELESS
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: skeetshooter ]

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: skeetshooter ]

[Scoutzilla]

I've been driving my GTX to the dunes and competions for the past 5 years. It's great to whoop up on the trailer queens. The 3 to 4 hour drives are loud and cold. Its a big pain to load and unload all the camping gear. I scored a nice Travelett (4x4, 392, 5 speed, AC!!) Going to start trailering my rigs. Less wear and tear on the drive train, nice quite drive to the trails, and have a camper too boot! Just need a trailer and camper now.. <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by Scoutillac:
<STRONG>I trailer mine for a couple reasons
1. I have to <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
2. I hate to burn up spendy tires on the cement.
3. I don't want to wear it out street driving, I built it for the trail and that is where I will drive it.

I will drive for a few miles on FS roads and even HWY's to reach a trail head, but that is about it.</STRONG>

Kevin, you found a trailer, right? I found a dual axle trailer with good tread out in Granite Falls. $500. It is very rough, but strong. Very ugly also, but looks big enough to haul your rig quite adequately.


I would trailer mine if I had a trailer and a tow vehicle. It is cool being able to drive to the trail, and drive it home, but my seats are very uncomfortable, and it puts a lot of miles on the rig. Much rather trailer it, and save the wear and tear.

Just don't have the $$ for tow rig and trailer. Or rather, not motivated enough to spend the $$ for tow rig and trailer.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Do you drive it to the trail or do you tow/trailer it to the trail?

There is something to be said about driving it to the trail, wheeling all weekend, then driving to work on Monday. The purpose built rigs are nice, but what?s that say when a driver can run the same lines as the buggies?
</STRONG>

I used to believe in driving my junk everywhere and I looked down on the trailered rigs..

Then I broke a leaf spring in Moab, UT.. 700+ miles from home, and the prospect of driving that far on my Hi-Lift handle just wasn't very appealing.

Suddenly, towing my rig seems like a so-much better idea. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Particularly if you run hard stuff, and there's a risk that you might cut up your tires - not enough to leak/lose air, but enough to weaken them so at 75mph they let loose.. or you put a big 'nuff hole in the gas tank (BTDT) that going any distance is a real PITA or...

My trail rig, "Tigger", still hasn't been on my trailer - yet. I drive to all of our local trails, but I'm thinking it'll start seeing the trailer more often - not for a "local" run, but when I head to Bozeman (100 miles) to play I may take the trailer.

Other factor is the bad exhaust draft and very drafty soft-top.. by the time I drove 100 miles I'd either be frozen, or sound asleep from CO poisoning. Either way, I'd much rather be in my crew cab. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

After I step up to the TSLs, I'll also be in the same boat as Kevin - tires are not cheap.

On my race rig, I used to flat-tow it to the races, now it gets trailered. When I flat-towed, I would put on "scrubs" (old stock tires/wheels from when I bought my Scouts) for the tow, then when I'd get to the site I'd roll the good tires out of the back of the Scout and change 'em before going to play.

Hmmm.. not only are my tires expensive and wear quickly on the pavement, they're also "NHS" - Not Rated for Highway Service.. not even close to DOT legal. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Thus, I'm thinking my rigs will see more trailering to the trails. Heck, it would've been safer to trailer it home the day I ripped the front spring hangers off, too.. And the trip where I blew a big hole in the radiator? I wouldn't have been stopping every 5 minutes to refill the rad.. I would've just driven it onto the trailer and called it a day.

Same for when the rear driveshaft let loose (I didn't carry a spare back then, and with a front locker, anything over a few MPH in FWD is cheating death)

It's nice to have a truck and trailer.

I, too, need a bigger trailer though.. enough to haul two rigs on it, and maybe a third (or flat-tow the third behind a gooseneck).

$$$$.

-Tom

[jdjanda]

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>On my race rig, I used to flat-tow it to the races, now it gets trailered. When I flat-towed, I would put on "scrubs" (old stock tires/wheels from when I bought my Scouts) for the tow, then when I'd get to the site I'd roll the good tires out of the back of the Scout and change 'em before going to play.</STRONG>

Didn't you have a near life experience <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> towing the racer? Tell us what you've learned. I'd like to avoid mistakes when I start to trailer my rigs.

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>I, too, need a bigger trailer though.. enough to haul two rigs on it, and maybe a third (or flat-tow the third behind a gooseneck).

$$$$.

-Tom</STRONG>

Three Scouts, about 15,000 lbs. you'll need a semi to pull that load.

Joe

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: jdjanda ]

[jdjanda]

I can foresee trailering in my future. With two kids, wife, etc. I can load up the Expo and tow the rig out to have fun. The wife can stay at camp for the day while I take the boys out for some fun. I think I'll start with flat towing first, then progress to a trailer big enough for two rigs <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> What experiences can you guys share with respect to trailering or towing Scouts? Like I said in Tom's post I don't have much experience with trailer or towing and I want to know what to do and not to do. Is flat-towing easier than a trailer?

Joe

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Didn't you have a near life experience towing the racer? Tell us what you've learned. I'd like to avoid mistakes when I start to trailer my rigs.
</STRONG>

Which time? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I've had minimal problems flat-towing. I use my trail Scout (V8, full interior, 4" lift/SOA rear, 33s, 4.09s, 304/345, close/wide T19) as the tow-rig. I even use the stock step-bumper <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

I made sure the flat-towed Scout was lighter (stripped down race rig) and has caster (Chevy front) so it's not usually a big problem.

The stick shift helps make up for the lack of brakes and I'm doubly cautious when flat-towing. I CAN stop it all if I need to.

Real important not to try to stop too hard while cornering though - or corner to sharp/fast. Several times I've had the flat-towed Scout push the rear of the towing Scout sideways when trying to turn onto an On-ramp too quickly.

It takes a little getting used to - mostly you have to learn to NOT fight the sway. I put my left elbow on the arm rest and pretty much lock it there. If the combo wants to sway to the right, I let it, stop it, wait, then correct back to the middle of my lane. If you try to correct it it'll just sway worse until it gets ugly.

I've flat-towed close to 10k miles give or take. Most with my race Scout. I flat-towed a stripped Traveler home (600m) from Seattle. I've flat towed a couple full Scout IIs (stockers) from Bozeman (100 miles).. numerous more times around town to/from my place/buddy's storage area..

Once I flat-towed my TRAVELALL behind my lifted SII.. 45mph or better and it would sway pretty badly. :-) Only did that for 5 miles or so when the front motor mount x-member sheared the rivets and dropped out.

I've also used the T'all to flat-tow with good success - even a FSJ Waggie.

First time I hooked a trailer up, OTOH.. that was scary.

1/2T Travelall. Rear anti-sway had a broken link. Shot shocks. Sloppy steering column.

We hooked the trailer up, loaded my racer backwards (full width front won't clear the fenders).

First time towing a trailer.

I was told to get a good head o' steam for the north pass.. so as we left from breakfast I was ON IT over the expansion bridge.. and the trailer tongue started bouncing up/down and the whole combo started to oscillate.

I STUPIDLY tried to "drive" and made it much worse.

One buddy was behind me in his F250 super-cab and his 20' gooseneck.. he said he put on the brakes and started covering both lanes to hold traffic up..

Meanwhile, everything in the back of the T'all was SLAMMING from wheel well to wheel well. The trailer was swinging and hitting the rear bumper (I have dents from the (not hooked up) equalizer bar mounts on the trailer hitting the bumper). Wham, WHam, WHAM.

I thought, "OK, yeah, just apply the trailer brakes.." and all I heard was the trailer tires howling even more.

"OK, that didn't work.."

I started to think "I can't just sit here and keep slamming side to side forever".. and finally got the whole thing pointed relatively straight for a moment, and just STOOD on the whoa pedal.

Amazingly, it all straightened up, and under control. I was pretty d*mn shaken, but regained my cool and started to just continue on when I looked in the rearview and saw my Scout half off the trailer.

We pulled over, Blair pulled up behind me, and then Comers pulled up behind him - but they missed the show, just got to see the black marks on the highway..

Jacked/pushed/shoved the Scout back on, and continued on - much slower.

Blair (in the F250) said he had just witnessed the worst wreck he'd ever seen that hadn't happened. He thought for sure we were done.

Matt O'Brien and Dave Nuenke were in the back seat.. they later proclaimed, "You know it's going to be a bad wreck when you have time to start looking for the seat belts.."

I had ZERO problem getting everyone to belt up after that (it's a standing rule - ride with me, strap in.. but not everyone follows it).

What a day.

I put rear shocks on and started changing tires again so I could drive the Scout on nose-first. Much better setup.

I then added new front shocks and got the equalizer bars and the stinger I needed - even better still!

With the worn column it would still follow every rut in the road, but it was manageable.

Then my concern became the D44 rear end and weight. Too much tongue weight and I risk losing the rear axle bearings, too little and it got "waggy".. It was usually a compromise. I was even more concerned after the day I split the sidewalls on my new 235/85-16s I'd put on the rear (on some 16" 5-lug wheels). Too much tongue weight..

All in all, I can tow with the T'all, and it's alright.

It would be better with a tighter column (I picked one up from the boneyard last weekend, but need to install) and with the rear anti-sway bar fixed (I finally removed it altogether after I bought the pickup)

I then bought my '74 200 2wd 9,000GVW Travelette.

I put new tires on it (235/85 10ply) and a 10k Class IV hitch. 4.30 gears, unknown 345, wide ratio T98. LOOOONG bed.

I hitch the trailer up and with the trailer loaded, the hitch height drops to the same point that the hitch sits on the Travelall - unloaded with taller tires.

The pickup doesn't care if I put too much tongue weight on it. The trailer has NEVER misbehaved behind the truck - just too much truck to push around.

I've hauled a full size mid 70s Chevy K2500 on my trailer (barely fit) with zero problems behind the pickup.

The big power discs and huge rear drums stop great - even when the trailer brake controller stopped working mid-tow.

The front and rear anti-sway bars are big and the truck has no sway.

I go over an expansion bridge or big "bounce" in the road and the truck gives a very satisfying single "drop" and then settles back into it's normal ride height. Very "stout" and "stiff" - I like.

If my GF didn't mind the heavy clutch, I think I could put her behind the wheel of the crewcab and she'd have no problems towing with it. The only time I have to think of the trailer is when making a tight turn into a gas station, or changing lanes (it's bad enough changing lanes in a long-box crewcab.. but add a 16' trailer behind it..)

<STRONG>Three Scouts, about 15,000 lbs. you'll need a semi to pull that load.
</STRONG>

My friend has used an F250 and an F350 to tow his 25' trailer. The F250 hauled two trail rigs on the trailer, and flat-towed a heavy FJ40 behind that on one Moab trip.

I can get the trailer for a good price, but it's only single tire 8-hole.. so there's only about 12k-lbs of tire, and the trailer is between 4k and 5k empty. *I* don't feel comfortable putting 10k of Scouts on the trailer for a 15k load on 12k of tires.. if I can put duals on it and the axles are strong enough, I might do it.

Semi? I'm thinking my 200 should be a fair match - at least for two rigs on the trailer, and maybe not too bad with a third flat-towed. I might give it a try with one or two on the gooseneck and see how I like it. My pal Blair just bought a parts truck and it has a gooseneck plate he doesn't need..

Of course, the 345 and T98 may not make a good combination for towing that much load with "only" 4.30 gears.. but I have a 392 to build for it, and a line on a 3spd Brownie to help out. Not like there isn't enough room in the driveline for the 3spd aux.. LOL. It'll help me get rid of the carrier bearing.

The 3 rigs I'm thinking of are my race rig (3700lbs), trail rig (??5k? 6k?), and my GF's stock 800..

-Tom

[JoshC]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>I can foresee trailering in my future. With two kids, wife, etc. I can load up the Expo and tow the rig out to have fun. The wife can stay at camp for the day while I take the boys out for some fun. I think I'll start with flat towing first, then progress to a trailer big enough for two rigs <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> What experiences can you guys share with respect to trailering or towing Scouts? Like I said in Tom's post I don't have much experience with trailer or towing and I want to know what to do and not to do. Is flat-towing easier than a trailer?

Joe</STRONG>

Hmmm? Do I see opening my wallet for half the cost of a dual rig trailer in my future? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[skeetshooter]

I have did both flat tow and a trailer and that was with a samurai and let me tell you a trailer wins hands down. no worries of going too fast for the gears in my rig's axles and if it breaks major it's still easy to get home. I want to build a trailer like Gene Wilson's from OK City it is much like the trailer that they use to haul a sand rail on where the rear axle slides up the frame rails of the trailer till the front axle is in the dolly's it's SWEEEEEEET!! it has one single 7000lb axle and the whole trailer weighs maybe 500lbs. I wish I had pics. It would be cheap to build I figured it up you could build it for about 350.00 in materials.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>I can foresee trailering in my future. With two kids, wife, etc. I can load up the Expo and tow the rig out to have fun. The wife can stay at camp for the day while I take the boys out for some fun. I think I'll start with flat towing first, then progress to a trailer big enough for two rigs <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> What experiences can you guys share with respect to trailering or towing Scouts? Like I said in Tom's post I don't have much experience with trailer or towing and I want to know what to do and not to do. Is flat-towing easier than a trailer?

Joe</STRONG>

Joe- I flat towed my 53 M38A1 for a few years and it can be a real PITA. First of all, backing up in a parking lot becomes real interesting. If you break on the trail, you may not be able to tow it home. The big advantage of a trailer (especially with a vehical as heavy as a Scout) is most car trailers have brakes. They really save ware and tear on your tow rig.

I'll be trailering my EB in the next year or so. (OK, no EB jokes <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">)

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Rubicrawler ]

[JoshC]

Originally posted by Rubicrawler:
<STRONG>(OK, no EB jokes <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">)</STRONG>

No problem. You still have to admire a rig that was designed after a Scout. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

We may have another EB at Frank Rains if you are interested in going.

[gunracer1]

i have some respect for the guys that just love wheeling and use there daily driver. but i find there are less head aches when i trailer. i got lucky and found a 24ft. wells cargo trailer and man its great. i haul it behind my motor home right now. the miliage sucks but not much worse than my crew cab 454 chevy. my trailer is 8 ft. tall and can fit my cruiser with 38.5 on in it. we towed it to colorado with my land cruiser backed in and a zuk driven up on the hood to fit them in. it was to much tounge weight and i wiped my equilizer bars out. but we made it 1800 miles. just make sure you have good rubber on the trailer. the best part about the cargo trailer is you have a place to get out of the rain/weather set up a card table and get serious about drinking some beer on the cold nights. it is great to have a portable storage building in camp. lock up everything and keep the bears out of the trash. i was lucky and found mine for 800.00 bucks at a insurance yard,it had been flopped on its side. it took us about 8 hrs. to make it road worthy. so get out there and do so checking and make sure you get some brakes on it. i took mine over 4 10k plus passes and it worked great. o yea i am selling the motor home and going back to a dodge diesel with a cab over. i have tried about everthing and that seems to be the best tow rig pacage i have come up with. i just borrowed jesse's[aka skeetshooter] 96 dodge the other day. filled it up, hooked to a 24 ft. goose drove 200 miles empty. loaded a 1967 2 1/2 ton ten wheel drive kiaser on the trailer and drove 200 miles back on 1 tank of fuel. worked out to 13.3 mpg. my motor home gets 4.5 to 5 mpg. so here is my 2 cents

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by JoshC:
<STRONG>No problem. You still have to admire a rig that was designed after a Scout. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
.</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[makkat]

I have to agree on the cost issue. I converted my trailer (or is it hers Tom? <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> ) over to 5x5.5, so I have lots of extra tires laying around, as opposed to the swampers I will have on the trail rig. Living in Denver makes it much easier to just drive to most trails, but there are some trips that the trailer will make it much easier. I haven't trailered the trail rig yet....but I'm sure I will be soon.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: makkat ]

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by makkat:
<STRONG>I have to agree on the cost issue. I converted my trailer (or is it hers Tom? <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> ) over to 5x5.5, so I have lots of extra tires laying around, as opposed to the swampers I will have on the trail rig. Living in Denver makes it much easier to just drive to most trails, but there are some trips that the trailer will make it much easier. I haven't trailered the trail rig yet....but I'm sure I will be soon.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: makkat ]</STRONG>

Her trailer, Mark. That way you can buy YOUR gooseneck.. or a whole set - YOUR pickup and YOUR trailer for YOUR Scout.

Or.. after Eyore gets rebodied and $$$ invested.. will it then become HER trail rig? <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">


My problem is all of my "good stock" 235/75-15s have dry-rot now. <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0"> I took too long between buying my Scouts and buying a trailer that needed the stock tires.

Or they have good tread, are not dry-rotted, but I made the mistake of wheelin' on 'em and holed 'em.. more than a few died before I stepped up to something resembling "real" tires..

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: tsm1mt ]

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by JoshC:
<STRONG>No problem. You still have to admire a rig that was designed after a Scout. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

We may have another EB at Frank Rains if you are interested in going.</STRONG>

You sure you're up to having 2 Bronco's at your party? How 'bout a Toy? I'm sure Amanda will be up for a run.

[JoshC]

RubiCrawler,
The yota is always fun to watch.

Joe,
Is Dave really going to make it out with his EB?

[jdjanda]

Originally posted by JoshC:
<STRONG>Joe,
Is Dave really going to make it out with his EB?</STRONG>

I would be surprised if he shows. He always has an excuse why he can't make it. If he does show, he most likely won't bring the EB.