undecided on lift...

[matt72scoutII]

I recently bought a '72 Scout II, everything stock on it. i am looking to lift it and do some customizing. I dont know what to do lift wise(body, spring, SOA, shackle...). I could use some advice and/or comments on what other people have done and what has worked for them.

[scouter77]

I have a 72 also and mine has a dana 30 front. I would get that thing outta there if you are planning on anything bigger than 33's. The rear is most likely a dana 44 and if the front looks like the rear (pumpkin) its a 44 too. That means you have an older 72. As for lift advice its different in ecery case. We need more details as to how and where you wheel to give any serious advice. I like rocks and have a heavy right foot and am going SOA on fullwidths.

[matt72scoutII]

I want to put full width axles on it eventually. That is a little ways down the road. For right now I would like too have something that looks good but can also proform well, something more all around for right now.

[scouter77]

If you can do SOA yourself its cheap and fairly easy from what I hear.. Mine is kind of a pain in the a$$ so far. But then again I am swapping axles and stuff. If you dont want to fab all the stuff yourself SUA and 4" triangle springs would be a good setup.

[matt72scoutII]

What is giving you problems in doing your SOA?

[matt72scoutII]

'72 Scout II

[scouter77]

Originally posted by matt72scoutII:
<STRONG>What is giving you problems in doing your SOA?</STRONG>

The front axle was beat to #%!* (you pick the 4 letter explitive. ) I have to replace EVERYTHING! seals balljoints u-joints I mean EVERYTHING! the rear is a 14 bolt and well there aint breaking nothing on that dude <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> The rear needs new spring perches installed and I am going ot have to redo all my brake lines. Steering is a joy to do also. I had to buy a machined and drilled flat top knuckle. Just a bunch of stuff all combined makes it a fun experience <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> I am not bitching too much it just seems like it will never be done. I am still in search and gather parts mode right now...

[HooperSSII]

Go SOA. I had mine on a ramp for the first time since I did my SOA, and it was really impressive. Maxed the 20 degree ramp, then scored 82 on the 30 degree.

Every ramp is different, so it is hard to compare, but last year I scored a 680 on the 20 degree ramp. So, year to year, the improvement is huge.

Much nicer on the trail now, although I don't get many of those cool tire pick pictures these days. Tires stay on the ground much, much better now.

[Scoutillac]

hehehehehehehe, thanks for the pic patty <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[HooperSSII]

This one might be better

[DSI]

Originally posted by Scoutillac:
<STRONG>hehehehehehehe, thanks for the pic patty <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
</STRONG>

wow look at all that NO flex in the front end <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> the axles almost paralell with the bumper still!

[HooperSSII]

Hmm, I seem to have a good difference in angle between front bumper and axle in this one.

[DSI]

ya you do, but kev's reear is doing all the work, imagine if the front played well too <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[matt72scoutII]

Hooper, what kind of springs are you running?

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by DSI:
<STRONG>ya you do, but kev's reear is doing all the work, imagine if the front played well too <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Very very true. His rear end is set up very well. With both my front and rear twisting, I still cannot get anywhere close to him on the ramp. <g>

I guess you could describe kevin as soft and loose in the back, but stiff in the front?

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by matt72scoutII:
<STRONG>Hooper, what kind of springs are you running?</STRONG>

It's basically a stock scout.

Plain SOA suspension on stock SSII XLC springs front and rear. That's about it. Not even reverse shackle. No extended shackles. Nothing special.

[matt72scoutII]

WOW, that is some really good flex on stock springs. What kind of axles do you have? Also, what complications did you go through when doing your SOA?

[JoshC]

I hear that if you do the reverse shackle, you will get that same flex! --Josh

[matt72scoutII]

How high of lift can you get from a reverse shackle?

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by matt72scoutII:
<STRONG>WOW, that is some really good flex on stock springs. What kind of axles do you have? Also, what complications did you go through when doing your SOA?</STRONG>

Thanks. I thought it was pretty good too.
<IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
RTI does not mean much on the trail, but the difference in scores from one year to the next means a lot. Saw lots of rigs flex well in the rear, but I think getting the front to flex well is the real key.

I have to give lots of credit to lots of people though for their technical help. RustoleumWhite helped me with the rear setup. Scoutillac came up with the correct length and manner to mount the front shock towers and other stuff. Lots of other folks helped me with the geometry on the front.

I think getting the correct shock length and mounting positions might be the most critical for maximum front flex.

Also, using stock xlc's gives you better flex than lift springs, but still gives you enough flex to keep the tires out of the sheet metal. I get a nice reverse arch in mine when I flex it up.

I'm very happy with the end result. Now I need to improve my driving skills to match the rigs abilities.

Still eyeing a set of 35's, although I really like the way the 33's stuff.

[Scoutillac]

Well patty, lets test your front flex is the key theory on the trail next weekend? <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> hehehehehe My front does flex when loaded in different situations, though it is not readily visable in the ramp pics. So when will the wife let you out again <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> ?

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by matt72scoutII:
<STRONG>WOW, that is some really good flex on stock springs. What kind of axles do you have? Also, what complications did you go through when doing your SOA?</STRONG>

Guess I forgot to address the SOA and axle side of it.

I cut and turned my front knuckles, 13 degrees, then shimmed the pinion back up 7 degrees. That left me with 6 degrees of caster. Boy does it drive nice on the freeway now. HUGE difference.

That also pointed my pinion at my t-case (almost - it is actually just a bit low, but I think axle wrap straightens it out. That means under heavy torque, my lower front ujoint is straight, but once torque is off, it has a slight angle to it. Turning the pinion up also improved the angle of the upper ujoint. Finally, raising the pinion gets the yoke and ujoint up away from rocks. I did not use a CV at the t-case, which means that I can only do about 30mph with the front driveline engaged, but I never go faster than 30mph in 4wd in any case, so it has not been an issue)

I used 7 degree steel shims that RustoleumWhite made for me and welded them to the axles for the pinion angle.

For drag link, I used a DOM Z-link from Gryphin Automotive. I know high crossover with a straight bar is better, but that will come later.

Tie rod is stainless steel from Back Country Binders.

For brake lines in the rear, Tom M provided part# Ford E350 Van rear brake line for the rear. That is a direct bolt in swap.

For the front brakes, P/N F113154 from Tom Martin's site. These are extenders. They thread into the top end of your existing lines, then thread into the fittings where the old lines threaded into the hard lines. You should probably figure out some spring system to hold the lines up away from your tires, however. Don't want them tangling in the lugs.

For the front shock mounts, I tried welding a stud to my axle for the lower eye, but I am such a poor welder, that they snapped off right away. So, instead, I used an L shaped bracket RustoleumWhite made for me. It fits over the end of the Ujoint Bolt. I put a washer between it and the ujoint bolt. Then put a bolt on top of that. The bracket hangs down behind the axle, and I drilled a hole near the bottom edge and bolted my lower shock to that. For the upper end, I used a Ford F-250 heavy duty shock tower, cut it at a 45 degree angle about half way through. Cut off my stock shock towers, ground the frame smooth, then welded the new shock towers in exactly the same place. This raised the front shock mounting point about 4 inches. I bought a shock with about 13 inches of total travel, and bolted it up. I know I took some pictures of it all, but can't find them now. Have to dig around. Too many pictures floating around my desk after roundup.

For the rear shocks, I also welded a stud to the axle, but snapped those off on the trail run. I am currently working on a new idea for the rear. It will entail fabbing up from flat stock a bar that runs up from the spring perches at a 45 degree angle about 3 inches, then horizontally across the diff, then back down to the opposite spring perch. I will drill holes in the horizontal section, inboard from the perches, and bolt the bottom of the rear shocks to those points. DK if it will work or not but it seems like it will. Still have to take some measurements and get the flat stock to do it. If it works, I will post pics.

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by Scoutillac:
<STRONG>Well patty, lets test your front flex is the key theory on the trail next weekend? <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> hehehehehe My front does flex when loaded in different situations, though it is not readily visable in the ramp pics. So when will the wife let you out again <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> ?</STRONG>

Not for you, you goofball. Your rear flexes better than my front and rear combined!!! <g>

But, at 82 on the 30 degree, I am getting closer to the big dogs, although still trailing you by a long way!!! Nice thing was that the position of the front shock towers worked out perfect, so it looks like you got it just right. No binding up there at all.

I do want to go play, but I am saving up my time off credits to go over to liberty some time in september.

Not that I can keep up with your monster these days in any case!!!

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[JoshC]

Originally posted by matt72scoutII:
<STRONG>How high of lift can you get from a reverse shackle?</STRONG>

I have seen as much as 4" --Josh

[HooperSSII]

Originally posted by JoshC:
<STRONG>I have seen as much as 4" --Josh</STRONG>

Kind of look like a vampire with those big teeth hanging down!!! <g> Seen those towers hang up on lots of rocks, too <g>

OK. OK. I am against Reverse Shackle, and I know I am in the minority on this issue. Everyone says it is great, huge improvement, yada, yada, yada, but you cannot convince me!!!

<IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">