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Old 04-13-2010, 12:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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HOS version 2.0 updates and spring projects::

I have had an ever growing list of things that have been needing to get done on my shitbox. The list is comprised of things that waver from needs, to wants, to probably should do's.

In an effort to battle some motivational issues and get some ideas/suggestions of what I should do along the way, I decided to start a continuous re-vamp thread. The deadline on some of these first items is Memorial Day weekend. Or even better yet, a couple of weeks before...to shake it down.

MUST DO's:
Tranny cooler relocation
Dana 20 to Dana 300 swap
New tranny/t-case crossmember
Bench rear seat install (for full family wheeling)
New fuel cell and fuel lines (prepping for FI)
Hydro assist + cooler install
New rear leaf springs + perches + outboarding shocks
Traction/anti-wrap bar

CAN DO'S:
Head light wiring harness and new assemblies
Sliders
Front bumper change
Aluminum skin top


So here we go...
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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TH400 long shaft to Dana 300 conversion::

I have a long shaft TH400 BOP transmission. It is out of a 67'ish Buick if I recall. It has a looooong output shaft and is a pain to mate anything to.

The current configuration is the BOP TH400/Dana20 adapter/Dana20.



Here you can see the simple angle mounted crossmember and single pivot poly mount. This layout has been allowing more and more vibration/twist as the years have passed. Plus I have broken two of the Dana20 ouput shafts now. (for other reasons that will be fixed - like spring wrap).



I am going to be switching that out to a GM aluminum (mystery) adapter/custom length spacer clocking ring/Dana 300. I just got in the JB Conversions 32 spline input shaft.



This aluminum adapter is a mystery. I can't find any photos of it on the web...and the fellow I got it from last month *thought* it was from a AM or GM Hummer application. I have no info on it...so I hope it doesn't break.



Here is the adapter mockup and how much tail shaft I will have to space off.



I can't really do anything from here until I install the input shaft. Then bottom it out on the tranny output shaft and see how long of a spacer/clocking ring I need to make. I guess everything will fall into place then.

The other option is to just source the correct tail shaft and have it put in the tranny...but that is a fucking pain in its own way.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Just judging by those pictures it looks like you're going to need a very thick spacer between the trans and T case. I think I have a couple 3/4" thick spacers but I bet you need much more than that.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Where's the picture of the tranny output without the adapter installed? If I remember right the splines on that output are really long. Can you trim some of the output off so your spacer doesn't need to be so big?
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What held the D20 bull gear onto the trans shaft?
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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There is a splined "sleeve" that is pressed into the bearings in the adapter, then the bull gear is retained on the sleeve with a snap ring.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ive been up for about 26 hrs so im a little groggy but before the last 3 mountian dews wear off heres my 2 cents worth. I believe what you really need is a adapter and tailshaft from a post 1980 truck with a 400/208 or 400/241. I don't think they should be all that hard to find and should be cheap. They were used from 1980 until they went to the 4l80E in 1991 so there a lot of the IFS 3/4 ton trucks in the pnp's with them. Ill bet if you put up an ad in the wanted section you will get some bites. There is a guy from NY who prowls there and sells stuff cheap. I bought a 27 spline 241 input for my klune from him. I may even have one of them, but I know I don't have a tailshaft, hit me up if you want it.

I had the output shaft of my 4l80E cut down way back when I built my doubler and the guy who cut it bitched and moaned that it was the hardest metal he ever cut.

Glad to see that you are nibbling away at the beast
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't know if it will help any, but I have the OEM adapter from a TH400 to GM round pattern 205. I'm pretty sure that it's the same adapter that Chi is referring to. I don't have the TH400 output shaft though. If you need the adapter, let me know.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't mean to speak for HOS, but I think the point is to avoid swapping tail shafts. Tail shaft swap means a complete tear down of the tranny. Also, if he does this right the dana 300 will end up in exactly the same position as his 20 was so he doesn't have to change drivelines.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't mean to speak for HOS, but I think the point is to avoid swapping tail shafts. Tail shaft swap means a complete tear down of the tranny. Also, if he does this right the dana 300 will end up in exactly the same position as his 20 was so he doesn't have to change drivelines.
Where is the fun in that? Avoiding work on top of work..... Pfffff....
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben W View Post
There is a splined "sleeve" that is pressed into the bearings in the adapter, then the bull gear is retained on the sleeve with a snap ring.
Rick...what he said. I then *sealed* it by gooping the shit out of the splines and the end of the shaft when I assembled it all together. I will snap a photo for posterity tonight.

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Ive been up for about 26 hrs so im a little groggy but before the last 3 mountian dews wear off heres my 2 cents worth. I believe what you really need is a adapter and tailshaft from a post 1980 truck with a 400/208 or 400/241. I don't think they should be all that hard to find and should be cheap.

Glad to see that you are nibbling away at the beast
That is exactly the plan B Helmer. No matter what the Dana 300 needs the correct input put into it. So that is then next step. If this mockup doesn't look like it will work out too well...then I will have to go the "normal" direction of what you posted. I would only then be out the cost of the adapter I bought.

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I don't know if it will help any, but I have the OEM adapter from a TH400 to GM round pattern 205. I'm pretty sure that it's the same adapter that Chi is referring to. I don't have the TH400 output shaft though. If you need the adapter, let me know.
I think round is round...205/208/231/241/300...So if I need to go with "plan B"...I might take you up on a photo or two of your adapter.

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I don't mean to speak for HOS, but I think the point is to avoid swapping tail shafts. Tail shaft swap means a complete tear down of the tranny. Also, if he does this right the dana 300 will end up in exactly the same position as his 20 was so he doesn't have to change drivelines.
That is exactly the point....If I can get the thing to sit near the location of where the Dana 20 was. Then all I have to do is burn in a new cross member and bolt some shit up and go.

If it kicks it too far back (I am thinking 3" is where it will probably fall) then I will have to cut sheet metal, fuck with drive lines, etc.

That in itself will make "plan B" the way I have to go...and cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyscout View Post
Where is the fun in that? Avoiding work on top of work..... Pfffff....
I am getting too lazy to even get the first tier of work done...let alone a second tier on top of that one.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Here is the quick and limited progress from yesterday:

The bed is all stripped of it's goodies. Gone is the leaky fuel cell, single bucket, oil cooler, air tank, hi-lift, and the spares box.



Oooopppss...the BITCH CUTTER got turned on and sliced some tube that I really liked.



I had to stop progress around 7:30pm and go pick this up from a local guy. He bought it and had never used it. Rockstomper.com Hydro Assist kit. Got it for under listed price...



Here is how long the shaft sticks out the back of the tranny without the adapter on it. Unfortunately the splines are as long as they are on a standard shaft.

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Old 04-14-2010, 09:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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How long are the splines in the input? Slide the input on there and any exposed spline is how much you can trim.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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...I think round is round...205/208/231/241/300...So if I need to go with "plan B"...I might take you up on a photo or two of your adapter...
I'm thinking that one or even two pics of the adapter would be too thin... personally, I would use the actual adapter.
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Nicely done.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thats a good one guidolyons... classic

Get back to work HOS !

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Old 04-15-2010, 09:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So after some deep thinking, searching, and input swapping I was able to lay some shit out and figure out the best direction to go.

The old Dana 20 adapter from mounting surface to mounting surface is 2.50" thick:



The new Dana 300 adapter from mounting surface to mounting surface is 2.4375" thick:



From there I measured to the top of the boss on the tranny side of the adapter:



Then from the bottom of the splines to the top of my flat stock laid across the boss:



From doing all of this it appears that I would need an almost 3" set back on any custom adapter I would make. This length on top of the already 1" longer Dana 300 would require me to cut lots of sheet metal, redo both drive lines...and take a while.

Soooo I am going to be pulling the tranny and taking it to the guy that I had rebuild it. For $125.00 he will strip the transmission, swap the input, and then re-gasket the entire thing. He is also going to sell me the output that I need for $50.00.

For $175.00 I will get everything I need to have done in a one day turn around. Then all I will need to pick up is a 5/8" - 3/4" clocking ring. This will make up for the difference in shaft length allowing +1/8" of clearance at the end of the input shaft. The result will be only about 1" of REAR drive shaft compression...which I think I have room to absorb.

The shaft on the left is a 1-1/2" stick out the rear shaft. The shaft on the right is a 2-1/2" stick out the rear shaft. I am going to run the one on the right:



Next step is to yard the tranny out.
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I believe the adapter I mentioned earlier uses the 1-1/2" stick-out shaft. Sounds like you making some progress.... time to buy some stock in the blue rubber glove company.
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I believe the adapter I mentioned earlier uses the 1-1/2" stick-out shaft. Sounds like you making some progress.... time to buy some stock in the blue rubber glove company.
Trying to keep on the progress. Otherwise the bitch will sit in the stall and get even dustier and will never get taken care of (updated).

I don't really want to pull the trans...but then thought about it again since I will already be replacing all my cooler lines, and needed a good fluid flush. So this is a pretty good way to kill it all, and be pretty close to the "correct" setup.

Tranny will be out by next week.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Is it just me, or are you posting pics twice?
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Is it just me, or are you posting pics twice?
Not just you...Unfortunately if you want to explain what is going on in the photos...you either have to do it the way that I do, or number list your happenings. The reader then has to scroll back up and down, back up and down, etc.

Kind of shitty...but that is what it is.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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FWIW I have these two laying around. The wide one is approx 4 inches, the narrow one 2.5. I wrote 400/208 on the wide one and 4l80E/241 on the narrow one, but that was a very long time ago and can't guarantee the accuracy. They are currently being used to help hold a set of overloaded shelves on the ground
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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FWIW I have these two laying around. The wide one is approx 4 inches, the narrow one 2.5. I wrote 400/208 on the wide one and 4l80E/241 on the narrow one, but that was a very long time ago and can't guarantee the accuracy. They are currently being used to help hold a set of overloaded shelves on the ground
The one on the left is the same one that I have. It's commonly called 400/208 since that is the most common use of it. But the 400/Round 205 uses the same adapter and tranny output shaft. I know this one came from a 400/205... Chi, Mr. Fubar, and myself pulled it from the truck on 9 day in a Chicago JY. FWIW, Chi, post an add in the For Sale section or cruise the Wanted section for someone looking for one.... I've seen them fetch $175. Of course, HOS could have it for far less.... like maybe a racey pic or two with some blue gloves...
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Not just you...Unfortunately if you want to explain what is going on in the photos...you either have to do it the way that I do, or number list your happenings. The reader then has to scroll back up and down, back up and down, etc.

Kind of shitty...but that is what it is.
You're doing it wrong.

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See... Just like that

If you click "insert all" under manage picture attachments it will insert the pics and you can describe what's going on in the pics without them showing again at the bottom
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