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Old 05-16-2007, 01:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Steering Advice needed

Well my buddy and I have an idea for what to do with his steering. We want to keep the same size TRE holes (don't want to ream or use hiems). I want to use ZJ TRE's in all of the places except where the draglink. Bascially it will be an Inverted-T setup with 1.5" .250 DOM. The tie rod will go from knuckle to knuckle and the draglink will connect to the tie rod with a 3/4" heim. And the heim will be more or less sandwiched by some 1/4" plate.

So I know where to get the tube inserts, jam nuts, TRE's and the heim. But where are the best prices for everything.

2-RH ZJ TREs
1-LH ZJ TRE
1-3/4 16 w/ 5/8" bolt and RH thread
Jam nuts for each and tube inserts for all of them

Should I get misalignment spacers for the heim?

Also I am using the heim in the about same place as the stock location of the draglink-Tie rod connection to make sure the draglink and track bar angles are close.

So if you have suqqestions throw them at me because I really don't feel like doing this twice.

Besides the track bar being raised because my buddy doesn't want to deal with that

The heim will be liek this ( thanks cracker for the pic)


Besides the track bar being raised
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am really unsure of what you are asking. It sounds like you have the plan down. If you are wanting a step by step help thing online, I dont think you will find it. But your head seems screwed on straight and you can probably figure it out really easy once you get under the rig. Just my thoughts.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well I don't know all about the heims and I just found out that the tube inserts only fit in 1" holes. But do i need the alignment spacers for the heim on the end of the draglink?
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The spacers give you the clearance rod-ends need to fully flex without binding. If a particular joint doesn't see side-to-side movement, then you don't need the spacers. The axle moves front/rear as you compress/extend the suspension. How much will tell you if you need the spacers on the rod-end connected to the tie-rod; short-arm suspensions, without drop brackets at the frame, move more than long-arm set-ups.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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So if you have suqqestions throw them at me because I really don't feel like doing this twice.

Besides the track bar being raised because my buddy doesn't want to deal with that
That's not exactly something you can just "choose" to not deal with. If the trackbar and drag link aren't close to being the same length & parallel, you will likely run into some bumpsteer issues.

As far as heims, I've always ordered mine from Poison Spyder. No problems yet. You won't need a lot of misalignment spacing on that joint, but I would probably throw some sort of smallish spacer in there just to make sure you don't bottom out on the tabs. You can get all the parts you need for the steering from PS and put it together pretty easily.

They also have a little weld-on block for doing inverted-T setups, I haven't used it personally but it looks like a decent way to do it.
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Old 05-17-2007, 09:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What knuckles are you using?
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Stock knuckles hence why I am using stock ZJ TRE's
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Stock knuckles hence why I am using stock ZJ TRE's
Nice picture.

To get an inverted T to work properly, the drag link should be pretty level. Otherwise, there will be a lot of twisting force on the tie rod creating a dead spot in the steering. With the steering in the stock location on the knuckles this would not be ideal. With the steering in the stock location, I'd stick with an inverted Y, which will work better and have a little better ground clearance.

What do you plan to use for links? And what tube and inserts are you going to use to get 3/4 16 on one end and whatever thread a ZJ TRE uses on the other end, for the drag link?

I get what you're trying to do, but I think there are better ways to do it. If you're willing to use rod ends, you can drill out the taper in the knuckles and mount the steering on top using rod ends, which will gain close to 3" of height and help the angle of the drag link. Then, you could use the QA1 double adjuster on one end of the tie rod so you have more ability to set the correct toe, and you don't have to unbolt the drag link from the tie rod to do an alignment. You still have to deal with a TRE and a rod end on each end of the drag link. What thread pitch is a ZJ TRE? I know earlier model XJ's use 20mm 1.5.......I did what you're thinking about doing and bought the tap for it. I'm still running the stock TRE at the pitman arm and rod ends everywhere else.

Here's a pic of my old inverted Y on a D30:
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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For the links I plan on use 1.5" .250 wall and I found the inserts for the ZJ's they are 22mm. All of the inserts I have found are for 1" tube so thats all good.

I dont want to ream or flip the tie rod ends. Also I want to have the least amount of heims.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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one problem with this setup is that your bump steer will be bad, especially if it is lifted. The more it is lifted, the worse the bump steer is. That is one reason why the inverted "Y" works well. I will PM you another alternative.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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For the links I plan on use 1.5" .250 wall and I found the inserts for the ZJ's they are 22mm. All of the inserts I have found are for 1" tube so thats all good.
If you've got the space I would suggest sleeving it with something larger. My tie rod is 1.5" x .25 also and it looks like a big frown right now.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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not to be a stupid newb but where do I get the inserts that go into the knuckle that the hiem attaches to.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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not to be a stupid newb but where do I get the inserts that go into the knuckle that the hiem attaches to.
Drill bit works!
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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haha after I wrote the message I thought about it and was like wow I am a crack head. drill + nut/bolt + misalignment spacers = success
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Old 05-22-2007, 01:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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For the links I plan on use 1.5" .250 wall and I found the inserts for the ZJ's they are 22mm. All of the inserts I have found are for 1" tube so thats all good.

I dont want to ream or flip the tie rod ends. Also I want to have the least amount of heims.
As has been proven many times in the last 10 years of XJ building, using an inverted T with the tie rod in the stock location below the knuckle is a bad idea. The angle of the drag link is too much.

Since you are going through the work and expense of building new steering links, it's kind of silly to leave the tie rod below the knuckles and live with bad ground clearance and bad steering angles. Why are you willing to make new links, change the steering design, and yet not willing to do anything to the knuckles?

Don't be afraid of heim joints. Trophy trucks and Class 1 buggies use them, so do NASCAR and Indy cars, and so do comp buggies. Those categories sort of take care of any strength and/or speed concerns. If you're just a mud runner, why are you on a rockcrawling board?
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Old 05-23-2007, 04:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Well I don't want to flip because my buddy said he doesn't want to ream/drill out his knuckles. I would ream/flip/drill/smash/bang on my XJ but he wants to keep the knuckles stock. My buddy also doesn't want to run heims because he DD's his XJ to job site where there is lots of dust. And he says they will wear out too fast and get loose. I told them they should be fine since I built my sisters steering and hers is all heims and hasn't had a problem in 3 years. And I try to stay away from the mud so its as much rocks for me as possible.

I am just trying to see if there is any help out there. He wants me to build this but I don't know now.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Well I don't want to flip because my buddy said he doesn't want to ream/drill out his knuckles. I would ream/flip/drill/smash/bang on my XJ but he wants to keep the knuckles stock. My buddy also doesn't want to run heims because he DD's his XJ to job site where there is lots of dust. And he says they will wear out too fast and get loose. I told them they should be fine since I built my sisters steering and hers is all heims and hasn't had a problem in 3 years. And I try to stay away from the mud so its as much rocks for me as possible.

I am just trying to see if there is any help out there. He wants me to build this but I don't know now.
Well, then you're not being silly.....he is.

Build it. It makes little sense to put that much effort into a steering design that will be stronger than stock, but won't work as well...............but it looks like he's not listening to you.

You might tell him to build it himself.............
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Old 05-26-2007, 08:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well that wouldn't be smart of me to tell him to build it himself since I am gettina new welder out of this deal. Making his steering, a inside tire carrier, and shock hoop.
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Old 05-26-2007, 05:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well, that sounds like a deal.

And then he has to drive it.
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Old 06-13-2007, 05:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I talked him into running heims on the knuckles and a ZJ TRE at the pitman arm. So we got 3\4 hiems with 5\8 hole and for the draglink a 3\4 with 3\4 hole and high misalignment spacers. And we will be moving his track bar now.
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