WTF is up with my clutch?

[nightcrawlers]

i have an 86 cherokee i drive daily. TBI 2.5,4 speed with external slave cyl. it used to be an auto,but i converted it to the 4 speed last year after blowing the motor up,and picking up a cheap 4 speed engine donor

a month or so ago i started having prollems getting into gear. after a few days of that the welds at the top of the pedal broke i took it apart and welded it up and all was good. i figured that my "no disengage" prollem was due to the welds getting worse and tearing on the pedal. while it was out i took a good look at the little nub that the rod from the m/c hooks to and its ok. very slightly worn,but nothing like the pedal from the parts jeep,wich still shifted fine.

but then a couple days ago it started being a major PITA to get it into gear again. i figured the firewall might have moved,so i rigged up a chain on the inside to keep it inline(i allready had a brace on the outside,in the engine compt). didnt help a bit.

at this point i figured i had a hydraulic issue,so i replaced the master cyl and slave cyl. prollem persists.difficult to impossible to get into gear while sitting still without grinding,and its hard to slip it into gear while shifting,unless you match the speeds.

im 99% sure ive got all the air out. pedal doesnt feel bad,and no amount of pumping makes it feel any differently.

the pedal doesnt feel bad,and it really feels like if it had another 1/2 inch of travel it would be fine. it makes me want to make a longer rod that goes from the slave cyl to the fork inside the tranny,but it doesnt make logical sense that it could be fine one day,then need to be longer the next

so whats the deal? do i have a pressure plate issue? should i try making a longer rod for the slave? any advice anyone has is appreciated,i want to get it figured out soon so i dont have to keep driving a car

[KiGrind]

So if you double clutch will it go into gear easy? Don't double clutch sitting still lol...

[terryd]

last time i saw that problem, a buddy of mine had a ranger w/ the 2.8 and 4spd.... the tranny had come un-bolted from the motor.... took 3 weeks of driving before it got so bad he'd have to turn it off to get it in gear. i figured it was because he was a dumbass for a while, then crawled under it while he pressed the clutch and saw the tranny and motor both shift to the drivers side when he hit the petal. 1/2 the bolts were gone and the other half bent. not saying that you are a bad mechanic, but you might give the bolts a good snugging for saftey sake, it'll look ok until someone steps on the petal. hope that helps some...

[nightcrawlers]

terryd ill check that out.

kigrind double clutching has no affect.

[vetteboy79]

You said you have an external slave?

Clutch fork might be bent or cracked where it holds the throwout bearing. That happened on my Corvette once and had the same symptoms. Is there an inspection cover you can pull to check the action of the arm inside the bellhousing?

[nightcrawlers]

vetteboy,thanks for the response. looks like its gonna hafta come out for inspection. unfurtunately,there is no cover i can remove to see whats going on. how badly will it weeken the tranny if i go ahead and cut my own

all bell bolts are tight.

[McCracken]

I've actually done this where I got a piece of rod and cut it to specific lengths. If you want to really booty fab it up, use a piece of all thread. One problem you need to look at is the bore of the MC and slave. If they aren't within 15% of one another then you be screwed.

One other option for further adjustment is to look to the oldies. Check out the mechanical linkage of the older FSJs. They had a rod that you could screw out once in place to adjust the throw. I bootied one up one time using all thread and long hex nuts (the ones that are 2-3" wide). Run the two nuts onto the thread, tack weld them together and unscrew. Take another piece about 1/4" and thread into one end of the two nuts. tack weld it and grind it smooth (this end goes into the fork). Now reassemble and put into place. Screw out until you get the desired throw. Ghetto? yes. Does it work? yes.

you're essentially mimicing parts E&F:

[nightcrawlers]

well,when i say its an external slave,its bolted to the outside of the bell,its not a hydraulic throw-out bearing. the rod that actuates the fork,and the fork,are all inside the bell where i cant see them. the bore that it slides into is not really big enuff to make an adjustable rod,and if it was there woould be no way to adjust it without removeing the slave cyl,wich means taking the line off and re-bleeding. at least in my case. i am very tempted to try making a longer rod,but it doesnt make logical sense that it would for some reason need it,all of a sudden.

OC,the clutch m/c and slave cyl are factory 86 cherokee,as is the ax-4 tranny,so im pretty sure they should be the proper bore sizes for one another,and the type of fork and t/o bearing used. i dont know what kind of clutch is in it,but im pretty sure its nothing special.

believe me,if i were able to make a mechanical linkage and throw this hydraulic crap in the garbage,i would. unfortunately,the slave cyl is on the passenger side of the tranny,so im kind of stuck with the factory crap as long as im stickin with a factory,non-auto, tranny.

no one has any comments on cutting a big hole in the bottom to make an inspection cover? looks like its gonna hafta come out in order for me to get an idea whats goin on

[rocknbronco]

Thats odd only in a Jeep I guess .

[vetteboy79]

Originally Posted by rocknbronco

Thats odd only in a Jeep I guess .

Good thing the whole motor and trans came from GM.

Like I said, I'm guessing it's the clutch fork that's bent where it holds the throwout bearing.

[McCracken]

yeah sorry about that. I tend to think about external slaves with all moving parts outside of the bell. i think you have the right idea about taking it out. it sucks and i just went through thre same but that's always the best way to see what's really going on.

[nightcrawlers]

thanx again fellas,im pulling it today,ill let ya know what i find

[McCracken]

it took me till today to figure it out. hey scotty, i tried calling you this weekend but you didn't answer your phone. i forgot the right torque specs for the pressure plate so i hand tightened them with some loctite. i figured that'll do

if anyone believes this you sir, are a dumbass

[nightcrawlers]

lol,OC,i thot you knew who you were talkin to. sorry i didnt answer my phone,i actually went wheelin this weekend,so i hope thats a good enuff excuse why did you use the locktight?

i got it torn apart and if there was a prize,looks like vetteboy woulda won it,as it is very definately cracked in 2 places,and bent further than a spare one i had layin around.

i havent gotten it back together yet,but im 95% sure putting a good fork in is going to fix my prollem.