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Old 09-25-2009, 07:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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TOTM: Rear Triangulated 4-link suspension

Welcome to the next contribution to the
The Official Pirate4x4.com Jeep Talk Bible

Topic of the Month Rear Triangulated 4-link Supension

Give use some tips and tricks of your rear 4-link.
What we call a triangulated 4-link is 4 suspension links where at least one set of links typically both are double triangulated.Typically lowers mount as wide on the rear axle as you can, and as inboard as they can at the Fame with drive shaft clearance. Uppers typically mount just inside the frame or on top of the frame, and on the center of the axle vertically 8in above the lowers on the axle end. Vertical separation at the frame end will vary for what you have room for. Lower links are typically longer.

This does not include wishbone 3-links, radius arm 3-links, wristed radius arm 3-link (Single upper link from axle to lower link), non triangulated 4 links (5 links).
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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One specific question I have been thinking about recently is the effect of triangulated vs. non-triangulated uppers with triangulated lowers. Someone, please enlighten me.
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Also sway bar usage with a 4 link please.
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here is my ZJ. Im running 6" Skyjacker front coils with plain jane white body shocks, 2" 7075 alum. links with RE joints at the frame, upper axle and RE bushings on the lower axle. rear is very stabele and predictable with Zero Wheel hop.






As for straight uppers... I have them on my front suspenstion with triangulated lowers, and dont much care for it. I dont have flex steer but it doesn't have near the stability. Don't get me wrong it works well for crawling, but with full on rock assaults it seams to shift around and let the body flop from side to side to much... even with the anti-rock up front

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Old 10-02-2009, 08:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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My 4link: http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forum...ad.php?id=6039
In the calculator My CG height is a guess and that really does impact the AS numbers. My AS is 53% with a CG of (48in?) My CG might be only 40in which would put me at 60%AS. If Anything I would want less squat when I hit it hard. I also changed to 2in air shocks which really magnify the AS charicteristics. Some ORI struts could really help tune the squat characteristics. I used to run those 3in Air rams with 80 PSI in the top and 15psi in the bottom to control unloading, I still miss the stability I had with those.

I really like my lower link placement, They are above the axle and tucked in even with the frame. They were built with tube I had 1.5in 120 HREW, 1.75 120 HREW and 2in 120HREW. so it 2in 3/8in tripple sleeved (junk) tube. In 5 years I have never hit one hard or bent one.

On the uppers I wish I made my bridge closer to the pinnion. At ride height my bridge leans back making my upper links longer then my lower. I should have made my uppers shorter about 90% the lowers. After changing my pinnion angle from adding a doubler I lost some vertical seperation. Im at 7in seperation, I really should have 9in of seperation.

Side hilling stability is Good for a tall trail rig. My roll center height is 27in.

In building the links jigging your rig in position is critical. Tack welding jack stands to themselves, and to the axle is a good method. I have also tacked box tube from the axle to the frame to hold the axle in postion for mockup.


Some Pics from my build in 2004, I was limited on skills and tools but Its still what im wheeling today.

Axle End lower link tabs made from box tube. 250 wall, with a 120 sheet metal back.



My uppers mount on top of the unibody frame and tie into my cage X-member
The lower frame end is even with the bottom cross member. I used more box tube to make my brackets.

Lower link frame end adjustable mount.





Lower link skidplate/support



The fox shock mounts




I used 1.25in Heims and 1.75in polly bushings, this is what Dave at pollyperformance recommended at the time. I used 250 wall tube for the bushing sleeves, but after afew years and the lack of seperation at the axle they are oblonged. I will replace them with ballistic joints SOON.
Second time around Id do all 1.25in joints or a ballistic joint on each end, not for flex but for the strength of the body.


I added a ballistic 14bolt cover that bolts to my upper link bridge.
This was a poser pic from last weekend.

Last edited by ashmanjeepXJ; 10-02-2009 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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To bring this thread back to the top,

This is the other Cherokee 4 link Ive made, we havent had this out yet but it will work great.

All Ballistic parts,
14bolt truss and diff cover.


Modified this bracket for the lower frame end mount, flush with the bottom of the cross member.


2x2 250 wall box backed by some 2x2 120wall box.




Some 3/8in tabs from ballistic for the upper axle mounts, Id like to box these in with some sheet metal.


Initially the floor was only cut this much but the rear frame was an issue for the 18in air shock at full travel they hit the frame. The floor pinch seem was beat with a hammer and welded to the inside of the unibody frame rails. 1/4in 3.5in angle Iron was welded to the top of the floor and the inside of the unibody frame. The angle also welds to the boax tube cross memeber and will be braced out to the cage.



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Old 10-10-2009, 10:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ash, What is your vertical separation at the frame end in the above pic?
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ash, What is your vertical separation at the frame end in the above pic?
It's about 5 inches.
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Old 10-18-2009, 07:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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For those of you who ran heim joints on your control arms,
What width spacers did you need in order to get proper clearance during full travel?
Hmmmm....let me see if I can articulate better.
I will need to add spacers between the heims and the mounting brackets. I'm thinking that I will need about 1/2" spacers there. Have you guys found that you need more or less spacing for the hi ems to clear the brackets during its full travel?
I'm using 1.5" heims for the lowers, and will be building all the bracketry today.
After reading my own post here, I'm not sure I'm being clear. Not enough coffee in my system yet.

Any help?
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Broke That View Post
For those of you who ran heim joints on your control arms,
What width spacers did you need in order to get proper clearance during full travel?
Hmmmm....let me see if I can articulate better.
I will need to add spacers between the heims and the mounting brackets. I'm thinking that I will need about 1/2" spacers there. Have you guys found that you need more or less spacing for the hi ems to clear the brackets during its full travel?
I'm using 1.5" heims for the lowers, and will be building all the bracketry today.
After reading my own post here, I'm not sure I'm being clear. Not enough coffee in my system yet.

Any help?
make your brackets 2.63in ID that is the standard miss alingnment + insert width. I bought my inserts from ballistic, you also want the inserts so you can run a smaller bolt like a 5/8 or 9/16, to get more miss alignment.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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make your brackets 2.63in ID that is the standard miss alingnment + insert width. I bought my inserts from ballistic, you also want the inserts so you can run a smaller bolt like a 5/8 or 9/16, to get more miss alignment.
Just to add to that... 3" box tube with a 3/16" wall has the perfect inside dimension.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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What sort of numbers are you guys running for AS, roll centers, etc? How much separation are people running on frame and axle ends? Is there a general rule of thumb for these? I recall something like 1/4 your tire size for the lowers, but that seems a bit excessive.


Ashman, you mention 50-60% AS and wish you had less. I see a fair amount of people running around 100% AS, is that where you think you would want to be?




Sorry for turning this into a TOTM for dummies.

edit: Ill post the link for the 4 link calculator since I know I can never find it when Im looking for it
/forum/general-4x4-discussion/204893-new-version-my-4-link-analyzer-request-help.html

Last edited by Starboard M; 10-18-2009 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Just finished this - haven't run numbers or trails yet but this is the starting point. This actually started as a belly tuck and flat pan project. I had been running without a transfer case skid for seven or eight years. The transfer case clocks from the factory so that it hangs three or four inches below the frame rails and my longarms brackets had been created so they were hanging four inches below the frame rails as well.

The project required a new front crossmember, a new rear crossmember, clocking the transfer case, and moving all the lower control arm mounts at the body up and out of the way. When I got to the rear, it became clear that the easiest thing to do would be to triangulate the lowers. So I now have a double triangulated rear four link.

The original rear longarm bracketry had been created and installed back in '01 - it was still strong. The bracketry had been created from .25" plate in the form of an H and slipped up onto the frame rail and welded in place with .125 6013 at about 120 amps AC. I cut off the two plates that hung down for the link end thereby getting my clearance. Then two more pieces of .25" angle were welded to the top of the H that was left so the crossmember could be bolted in place.

The crossmember itself is 2 x 3 x .25 rectangular tubing - same as I used for the front. Attached to the body by four .375" grade 8 NC bolts at each side with the grade 8 nuts welded into the crossmember like nutserts.


A few pix:










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Old 10-19-2009, 06:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Have fun building your exhaust, I know I had fun building mine.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Through the frame works well.
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Run the numbers. I'm not seeing much vertical seperation at the frame.
(As I act as though I know what works and what doesn't..)
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Have fun building your exhaust, I know I had fun building mine.
I took the easy way out and just ran it in the car. Made a 5min heat shield to keep from cooking the seat. It's worked for years.

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Old 10-22-2009, 12:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I took the easy way out and just ran it in the car. Made a 5min heat shield to keep from cooking the seat. It's worked for years.
Damn...I didn't know your rear link were so...thin...

Was gonna come stop by to see the rig at KOH, but was helping Creighton or someone try and find Rich.

Been a long while since I've seen the rig in person and A LOT has changed since then

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Old 10-22-2009, 12:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Damn...I didn't know your rear link were so...thin...

Was gonna come stop by to see the rig at KOH, but was helping Creighton or someone try and find Rich.

Been a long while since I've seen the rig in person and A LOT has changed since then
Use the right material and they don't need to be big. The lower link are 1.75
heat treated cromo. Stronger than 2" .25wall. Havn't bent one yet.

You should have stopped by. We always have a cold beverage ready.
We will be there again this year.
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I took the easy way out and just ran it in the car. Made a 5min heat shield to keep from cooking the seat. It's worked for years.
Well, I ran mine in the car too(sorta) but it wasn't exactly the "easy way out".


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Old 10-22-2009, 04:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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That just might be the coolest part of you POS Jes!
Well....I guess 'coolest' might not be the appropriate term.....
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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That just might be the coolest part of you POS Jes!
Well....I guess 'coolest' might not be the appropriate term.....
I don't know, I was thinking this was the coolest part of my POS(and necessitated the D60 and new suspension)...

I guess I'll find out tomorrow on the Rubicon how the four link works.
Where will you be?
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I don't know, I was thinking this was the coolest part of my POS(and necessitated the D60 and new suspension)...

I guess I'll find out tomorrow on the Rubicon how the four link works.
Where will you be?
We need to put a set of 40D's on next mounth and see how fast it will go.
Find out if it will break the magic 62.5 mph barrior
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Wow Jes.....an inline six!!
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Run the numbers. I'm not seeing much vertical seperation at the frame.
(As I act as though I know what works and what doesn't..)
108% Static AS. Good enough to start.

As for the exhaust - I got a guy in Marysville who will take care of me. Should be getting done in the next coupla weeks. Will post pix.
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