GW Backwards re-Build...v1.7

[GreatWhiteXJ]

How tight are your slugs on the shaft?

Mine just came in and I simply cannot get the flange onto the shaft without a decent amount of force. And I mean like beating the shit out of it with a deadblow force..... (No, I havnt done that....)


It fits in the Unit bearing perfect.....but not the shaft. I have tapped it with the deadblow and it did engage a bit, but to get it fully installed will be a big chore.

Anyone?

[xj9140]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteXJ

How tight are your slugs on the shaft?

Mine just came in and I simply cannot get the flange onto the shaft without a decent amount of force. And I mean like beating the shit out of it with a deadblow force..... (No, I havnt done that....)


It fits in the Unit bearing perfect.....but not the shaft. I have tapped it with the deadblow and it did engage a bit, but to get it fully installed will be a big chore.

Anyone?

I have the RPM offroad slugs (35 spline) and they fit great on my inner shaft's splines, (custom cut) and on spicer 35 spliners. But my chromo stubs(Durasolid) are very tight, even tighter on one side than the other, I have to basically hammer the subs in. Once they get some use, I'm hoping the stubs will loosen up. Did you try and see if your slugs fit any other axle splines better? What stub shafts are you using?

[GreatWhiteXJ]

That sucks but thats reassurring. Im basically having the exact problem.

Slugs slide on 35 sline inners no prob. On and off very easy. Stubs, not so much. Stubs are Ten Facto.

[XxPr0nag3xX]

Is the 14 bolt rear and HP Dana 60 the best set up for an XJ?

Also these both are of similar widths if im not mistaken so i wouldnt have to shave them down or nothing? Just redo the mounts and brake lines and your ready to rock?

[DutchVDub]

Originally Posted by XxPr0nag3xX

Is the 14 bolt rear and HP Dana 60 the best set up for an XJ?

Also these both are of similar widths if im not mistaken so i wouldnt have to shave them down or nothing? Just redo the mounts and brake lines and your ready to rock?

Yes, they practically bolt right in. Its actually amazing just how simple it is to install them.

[ONEtonXJ]

Originally Posted by XxPr0nag3xX

Is the 14 bolt rear and HP Dana 60 the best set up for an XJ?

Also these both are of similar widths if im not mistaken so i wouldnt have to shave them down or nothing? Just redo the mounts and brake lines and your ready to rock?

Yesterday was Tuesday, huh... Fuckin idiot...



As for your flanges... I read once apon a time somethin that vette was having the same problem.. Dead blow away..

[XxPr0nag3xX]

Originally Posted by ONEtonXJ

Yesterday was Tuesday, huh... Fuckin idiot...



As for your flanges... I read once apon a time somethin that vette was having the same problem.. Dead blow away..

Why are you calling me an idiot? im asking a question so i can further my understanding... is there more fab i need to do? Ive been stalking the builds on here and i cant really find anything to tell me what exactly i need to do for the steering 60. All i can gather is common since telling me that i would have to reposition all mounting brackets for everything and probably redo the brake lines to accommodate the wider axles. From what i hear the ford HP 60 is the same side drop as the Dana 30 if im not mistaken.

[GreatWhiteXJ]

Originally Posted by XxPr0nag3xX

Why are you calling me an idiot? im asking a question so i can further my understanding... is there more fab i need to do? Ive been stalking the builds on here and i cant really find anything to tell me what exactly i need to do for the steering 60. All i can gather is common since telling me that i would have to reposition all mounting brackets for everything and probably redo the brake lines to accommodate the wider axles. From what i hear the ford HP 60 is the same side drop as the Dana 30 if im not mistaken.

My personal build thread is not the place to ask this. And yes, your a fucking idiot. Do not reply any more. If you wanna know something, start your own thread.


As for the tech, the culprit of the tighness has been found. Its the shafts. They seem to have been machined to the high side of the tolerences and then with the finish coating, they got even tighter. Ive contacted the supplier and the manufactuer and they say beat em on and they will loosen up with use. Reassuing I guess, but beating a 200 dollar slug onto a 200 dollar shaft, running threw a 400 dollar unit bearing doesnt really strike my fancy. They did say tell me that if anything is heavily damaged, they will replace it.

Pics coming sometime....Im making decent progress.

[ONEtonXJ]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteXJ

And yes, your a fucking idiot.

I wish PBB would let me "like" this lol ^^

They did say tell me that if anything is heavily damaged, they will replace it.

Pics coming sometime....Im making decent progress.

that was nice of them get some shit done now.. I'll be out in CO soon, we'll have to hit up some trails

[GreatWhiteXJ]

Good news!

Took the shafts to work today. Just got off. I did my own little investigating on this. They are machined to the high side of the tolerance.

I also threw them under a mirco and determined that when they where hobbed a very slight burr was created. Prolly 5 ten thousandths.

To get rid of this I took em to the bench grinder. Now hold on sec.....I use a unitized, aluminum oxide, deburring grinder wheel all the time to debur parts at work. So all I did was lighly take the shaft to the wheel and knocked off the slight burr from the hobbing and to remove the finish coating.

Slides on like a champ now.

[GreatWhiteXJ]

Was kinda hoping to hold off on an update but I need a little assistance....


Ill keep it strickly to the problem tho as Id like to do a really big update when a few more parts come in. Yes, theres tons more done and ready to show, but you'll have to wait

Panhard whoes. Ive been stuck here for quite a while now. Cant figure out a suffcient mount without serious sacrafices.

Pre notes: (What Im currently trying to fit)
Drag link = 40 3/8"
Panhard = 37"

Before its suggested.....I do volunteer search, rescue, and aid in severe conditions and it is a requirement to have mechanical steering. Full hydro is not an option. I will not pass there inspection.

So I knew Immediatly after fabbing the panhard and bolting it frame side, that fitment was gonna be a major PITA! And its kicking my ass.

So today I figured I go ahead an finish it off, get the ram mounted and call it done. Not going so well thus far....

So to see exactly what I was gonna be working with, I made a tab and tacked it in place.

First...this is the hi steer arms all finsihed up. Double sheer all around. Im quite happy with them. No beef spared here.


So all mounted up and straight we end up like this. (For those wondering its all 1.5", .250 Wall DOM, with 7/8 heims on the tierod and 3/4's on the drag link and panhard.)

Lookin good, lookin good.... Remebering that panhard is not attached....the body kinda sits where it wants. Hence the crooked coils.....


Then full lock, passenger....shit hits the fan.




It clears at full lock.....it does not clear at full lock, full bump.

So gotta come up with somethin.

Without getting too carried away I just started playing with the heim. If I could get away mounting it verticle, things would be great. But I get the strong feeling the joint would be binding long before full drop. Any feed back on this is appreciated greatly tho, as this is one option that would require no major re-working.


Another option is rotated in this manner.... Which is really no better than straight verticle and actually takes a little clearace away opposed to straight verticle.






So my other thoughts are....remove the misalliment spacers, tack up another mount and see if the heim binds without the spacers.

Shortern the panhard 6"......which I REEEALLLY am not intrested in.

Throw a bend in the panhard so it slightly wraps behind the side of the passenger coil. The panhard and joint are not the problem. It the mount and bolt that make contact. If I could move that mount back like 1" ...everything would clear. Still tight, but would clear. However, Ive never seen anyone bend a panhard in that manner. So Ive got really no idea how it would react.

Something like this is what Im thinking.....




Anyone got any ideas???? Thanks in adavance!

[ONEtonXJ]

Not exactly like this but I think something like it off the front of your coil perch would be good...

I wouldn't wanna bend the track bar like that.... That much anyway, one good shove from the passenger tire would fuck that shit up..

Dig the steering.. Carry on

[ONEtonXJ]

Also you could tap the front and put the bolt in from the back...

[xj9140]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteXJ

Anyone got any ideas???? Thanks in adavance!

Did you consider short ning the control arms?

[GreatWhiteXJ]

Originally Posted by ONEtonXJ

Not exactly like this but I think something like it off the front of your coil perch would be good...

I wouldn't wanna bend the track bar like that.... That much anyway, one good shove from the passenger tire would fuck that shit up..

Dig the steering.. Carry on

Front of the coil perch is not gonna work. Look closer at my pics. Thats where Im at now. Unless you ment to the right of the coil as the front and theat would mean shortning the panhard nearly 6". Im not entertainied with that idea at all. That would make the panhard over 10" shorter than the drag link. Ill pass on that kinda bumpsteer.

Originally Posted by ONEtonXJ

Also you could tap the front and put the bolt in from the back...

I "could" do that, however would you trust 3 threads holding everything together? I wouldnt. which would mean Id have to beef it somehow to get more thread engagement.....lossing clearance.

Originally Posted by xj9140

Did you consider short ning the control arms?

Not sure what your getting at here Mike. I think I see what you mean, but shortning up the links wont get me more clearance. See my last thoughts below.....




I kept tinkering yesterday with only progression in thought.

Mounting the bolt and heim verticle could potentially be ok. I think Ive figure about 8 1/2" drop before binding. And I was planning 9" down travel anyways. So I may tack up a mount and attempt this first.

Eliminating the mis spacers seems pretty promising. That would net me the 1" I need. The frame side heim has mis spacers. And between frame side with em and axle side without em, Im prolly looking at 40* of rotation to work with. At full drop, I doubt Ill see 40* of rotation.

Also, putting a bend in the panhard has my attention too. My awesome paint skills are a tad excessive and the bend would not be anywhere near as severe as I illistated. Nate, I see your thoughts on this bending but again it wouldnt be like I painted.

If none of the above ideas work out, Im left with not choice but to do major fab. This would mean reworking coil locations. Id have to remove both upper and lower mounts on each side and move them back. Thats the only other feesable way I see this happening. Any other suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

[moparmaniaccuda]

Eff bending the panhard. I'd be all set with that.

Tack up a mount to make the bolt vertical and see where it puts you before making sacrifices and/or adding more work for yourself.

[xo_jeep]

I'm not a huge fan of this, but it just might work for you. It gives you a longer panhard also. Would definitely need to gusset the inner Cs a lot to feel good about it.

[AgitatedPancake]

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I say shift the coils rearward. The axle side mounts you may have to extend the flat part of the perch backwards a little bit, but the top looks like its got plenty of room to have the post cut off and pushed backwards an inch or so from the way you built it. Seems like it wouldnt be too intense of a job honestly.

I can't recall, do you have a plasma cutter? Make it REALLY easy haha

[imtiredzzzz]

How many degrees of steering would you loose if you just adjusted the stops so that there's no contact? An unreasonable amount?

[9T3XJ]

Originally Posted by moparmaniaccuda

Eff bending the panhard. I'd be all set with that.

Tack up a mount to make the bolt vertical and see where it puts you before making sacrifices and/or adding more work for yourself.

This.

Your drag link is mounted with a vertical bolt, granted its slightly longer then your track bar, but I bet you'd be fine mounting it the same way. I'd tack it in place and cycle the suspension.

IIRC a heim with high misalignment spacers is good for about 30 degrees of travel, with 37" track bar that's about 19" of travel.

[Chaps]

Take a look at my build, half way down page 1 when I built my front 60. That setup may work for you, it works very well for me and is not far off from what you already have. you could move your frame side panhard mount more outboard to give you more possible locations for the axle side mount.

[GreatWhiteXJ]

Originally Posted by moparmaniaccuda

Tack up a mount to make the bolt vertical and see where it puts you before making sacrifices and/or adding more work for yourself.

Right now.... thats plan B. Thanks!

Originally Posted by xo_jeep

I'm not a huge fan of this, but it just might work for you. It gives you a longer panhard also. Would definitely need to gusset the inner Cs a lot to feel good about it.

Opinion much appreciated. But that wouldnt work as my hi-steer arm would then become the contact point. It would touch long before steering is at full lock. Thanks tho.

Originally Posted by AgitatedPancake

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I say shift the coils rearward. The axle side mounts you may have to extend the flat part of the perch backwards a little bit, but the top looks like its got plenty of room to have the post cut off and pushed backwards an inch or so from the way you built it. Seems like it wouldnt be too intense of a job honestly.

I can't recall, do you have a plasma cutter? Make it REALLY easy haha

No plasma. Gotta finish the big toy before I start buying the little ones. :Shrugs:

But I see what your saying and honestly....no its not an overwhelming amount of work...........it just...sucks. Thanks!

Originally Posted by imtiredzzzz

How many degrees of steering would you loose if you just adjusted the stops so that there's no contact? An unreasonable amount?

The stops on Fords Unit Bearing 60's arent adjustable. (Not at you...at them.) But even if I did....yes its a sufficient amount I would lose.

Originally Posted by 9T3XJ

Your drag link is mounted with a vertical bolt, granted its slightly longer then your track bar, but I bet you'd be fine mounting it the same way. I'd tack it in place and cycle the suspension.

IIRC a heim with high misalignment spacers is good for about 30 degrees of travel, with 37" track bar that's about 19" of travel.

Never thought about it like that. As of right now, this is plan B. I honestly think I can ditch the spacers and everything will be fine. This is plan A.

Explain how you calculated 19" of travel. Not saying your wrong, just curious. Thanks

Originally Posted by Chaps

Take a look at my build, half way down page 1 when I built my front 60. That setup may work for you, it works very well for me and is not far off from what you already have. you could move your frame side panhard mount more outboard to give you more possible locations for the axle side mount.

Ill take a look. Thanks for the post. In all seriousness, relocating the coils would be much easier than reworking the panhard mount. But Ill put some thought into it. Thanks.


And then......I posted in Gen 4x4 about this and got one response that was worth considering.... from "MiniWally".

"We have run a bend in the track bar on several rigs, including our race car.

1.5" .250 wall minimum material. larger and thicker if possible.

Run only the amount of mis-alignment spacer that you need, if you don't need any don't run any. We actually cut the shoulder off of a bushing assembly and put one on each side of our chassis end link arm mount on the race car. This keeps the track bar aligned vertically, allows it some misalignment as they are slightly narrow and also gives a bit of soft cushion if they hiem needs it.

Sometimes clearances are measured in 1/16ths when working around factory stuff and things you don't want to change. Not saying that little clearance is good but I litterally have had clearances so small that the paint rubbed off but never went metal to metal.

Just keep working things in and make it happen."





So plan of attack is:
A.) Try without spacers and check full bump and drop at full lock
B.) Try mounting verticle and do the same.
C.) Rework coil mounts.


Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. Much appreciated!

Next update should be a good one. Lots of shinny parts collecting in the garage.

[Echo4charlie]

[IMG][/IMG]

This configuration works for me.

[GreatWhiteXJ]

Originally Posted by Echo4charlie

[IMG][/IMG]

This configuration works for me.

Thats a nice big, fat, red X.

[AgitatedPancake]

Sounds like a plan cap'n! I just noticed one more potential interferance issue though, how much uptravel are you going to run? It looks like the track bar might get into the brace on full uptravel because they are in the same plane of travel

Other then that, get dems new pics up!