TJ 5.3 nv4500 Clutch chatter - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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TJ 5.3 nv4500 Clutch chatter

How good are you guys? I have a 2002 tj with a 5.3 and nv4500. Sanderson headers. clutch and flywheel out of early 6.0 truck new. Trans was new. When the jeep is driven for about thirty minutes the clutch will start to chatter. Once completely cooled down most of the chatter is gone?????? Gets really bad the longer I drive it. What gives?
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Could be any one of several things, but my first guess would be that something is out of whack and riding on the clutch all the time. I say this because it only chatters when hot. My guess is that it's getting overheated due to excessive slippage caused by maladjustment (if mechanical linkage) or incorrect assembly (if it's hydro) which is what's causing it to chatter... You don't say how the clutch is actuated (mechanical/hydro/internal/external) or what bellhousing/clutch setup you are using, but the problem could theoretically be caused by a mismatched or incorrectly-installed throw-out bearing (i.e. there are like 4 different bearing thicknesses to choose from and yours might be too thick). EDIT: There are closer to a dozen!

...Of course it could just as easily be slipping constantly for other reasons (glazed, contaminated, etc.) Or the problem could be due to something else altogether.


In any case you're likely going to need to tear into it to figure out what the problem is. I've got a similar setup in my YJ (6.0L/NV4500), so I feel for ya.


Good luck,
Jake
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Last edited by Jakesteramalamajama; 06-13-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I am having the same issue with my 5.3l to SM465. I think its related to the hydraulic linkage. I think on mine its the throw out bearing pre load. On my rig I cant keep the throw out bearing from riding on the clutch fingers. I reduced the length of the clutch rod thus reducing load on the throw out bearing and the noise reduced. I am still fighiting this issue and will most likely removed my 12" clutch to install a smaller one to try to get linkage geometry correct(reduced travel required activate the clutch.....)
Are you running a 12" clutch? Are you running a stock throw out bearing and clutch rod? Read the following link some usefull info.


http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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excellent link thank you. I am running hydraulic mast slave setup. The throw out bearing came with the clutch. I bought a clutch setup for a mid 90s chevy. Don't konw the size. Intresting about having a gap between the fingrs and the bearing. I don't think I have slippage since I can light up the tires after the long drive and having lots of chatter. The bell housing was a standard housing for the nv4500 to a chevy bolt pattern.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Was this trans designed for a GEN III and later LS engine or the previous old style small block? Also, what did you use for a flywheel? There is a specific flywheel used for GENIII and later small blocks to old style SM465/NV4500 transmissions. If that part is not used your stack up will be off B .400 causing some issues as well.

FYI, With the sick slave cylinder I cant find a clutch rod length that will prevent the throw out bearing from riding on the clutch fingers. The stock slave has a spring that returns the piston in the master to a point where there is ~1" of travel, this is not enough to disengage my clutch. To have the system work I have to lengthen the clutch rod, increasing the pre load on the throw out bearing. A smaller clutch will reduce the travel needed for the clutch to work. This is more important if your stack up from the crank flange differs from stock, for instance, using a GENIII engine with a GENI trans without the proper parts.

Tim
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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reading from other web sites I used a 6.0 flywheel on my 5.3. The trans and bellhousing was from a gen1 setup missing one of the bolts. Sounds to me like I have a slippage issue. Why I am able to bark tires after horrible chatter bothers me but seems like this is the issue. So take apart do some measurements to get the gap on the throwout bearing. and probally a new clutch so everything is new.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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All your running the same style bell and fly wheel I am, you should be good to go there.

As for set up, I am going to remove my trans a spend a little more time on the set up too. I would rather it be spot on than wearing out parts fast( throw out bearing and fly wheel).
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I am interested to hear what you guys come up with. I am in the middle of plumbing up the hyd linkage for my NV4500 to 383 stroker.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If it helps any, here's what I am running (and it works great):

Jeep:
  • 1987 Wrangler
Engine:
  • 6.0L V8 MPI (LQ4)
  • Year/Make/Model: 2007 CHEVROLET K2500HD SILVERADO
Transmission:
  • 1992 Chevy 2500 NV4500 (6.34:1 first)
  • Bellhousing from same model/year Chevy (for GEN I Chevy)

Clutch:
  • 12" LS Truck flywheel out of a 2004 4.8 liter (PN# 12561680)
  • Clutch and pressure plate from same (PN# RAM88744 OR PN# RAM88793T)
  • 6 metric pressure plate bolts (PN# 12561465)
  • Clutch master is stock '87 YJ
  • Clutch slave is ‘92 3/4-ton Chevy external.
  • Throw-out bearing is also ‘92 3/4-ton Chevy
  • I plumbed it with a (very expensive) braided steel hose from Atlas Adapters that was designed to attach to a stock AX-5 external slave cylinder. It comes with the NV4500 bellhousing/installation kit (for a 4.0 Liter) but not the rest of the kit... It cost me $70 or something similarly outrageous. I had to adapt it to the slave cylinder using brake tubing and fittings from Napa.

(Before anyone asks: yes...the 4.8/NV3550 and the 6.0/NV4500 use the exact same clutch part numbers.)


HTH,
Jake
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Last edited by Jakesteramalamajama; 06-13-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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jake,
Does your throw out bearing always ride on your clutch fingers? Did you have to adjust the clutch rod?

I am running the same parts except for the bell, mine is from a 92 3/4 ton sm465 with hydraulic clutch. Same slave and master.......

Tim
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisedRover91 View Post
jake,
Does your throw out bearing always ride on your clutch fingers? Did you have to adjust the clutch rod?

I am running the same parts except for the bell, mine is from a 92 3/4 ton sm465 with hydraulic clutch. Same slave and master.......

Tim
I went with all stock parts and there were no adjustments possible. I have no idea where the bearing rides vs. the fingers because there is no way to see it...no inspection window in my bellhousing. The slave mounts externally sticking out from the front dust shield kinda right under the starter and the fork is mounted completely inside the bellhousing.


EDIT: Just like the one this dude was selling: /forum/engines-trannys-t-cases-sale/731856-hydraulic-bellhousing-chevy-nv4500-50-obo.html


Jake
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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intresting. I have that same braided line going from my master to external slave it was brutal to buy but made it bolt in. Are you running headers? I suspect that my passenger side header could be part of my problem since the collector flange slightly touches the bell housing?
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.GEHRMAN View Post
intresting. I have that same braided line going from my master to external slave it was brutal to buy but made it bolt in. Are you running headers? I suspect that my passenger side header could be part of my problem since the collector flange slightly touches the bell housing?
I suppose that could be what's heating things up in your clutch...easy fix anyway. Definitely where I'd start.

FWIW, I'm running C5 Vette Manifolds... they are a weird hydroformed hybrid header/manifold:



...except I blazed off those goofy asymmetric flanges and welded on some proper 3-bolt flanges.


Good luck!
Jake
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Last edited by Jakesteramalamajama; 06-15-2012 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Figured it out. I pulled the trans and here is what I found. WHen I did the build some one said to use a mid 90s clutch which will bolt to the ls flywheel but the friction material goes beyond the flywheel machined surface on the inside of the flywheel. Hence chatter.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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that makes sense. Are you goin to run a smaller clutch?
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