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Old 06-12-2013, 01:29 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chris demartini View Post
Thread the lowers in all the way. leave them in while you weld the inserts into the tube and do not try to remove them until the tube is cool to the touch, or they will not thread back in without re-tapping the inserts.
Ruff Stuff specifically states to not do this because it will heat up the Teflon inserts? Hmmm. I will do this on one and see how hot the thing gets. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:31 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Is there a reason you're not welding in the corners of the lower axle link capture? Maybe just not done it yet?
I guess I didn't weld them there. I did weld the inner portion on the inside of the bracket, but your right, I didn't weld up that last little bit. I guess that would add strength to the last portions of the bracket so I will weld those in when everything is said and done. The majority of my time is work and family so late nights and weekends is when I get to work on this HEEP. Thanks for pointing that out Coma.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:15 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Ruff Stuff specifically states to not do this because it will heat up the Teflon inserts? Hmmm. I will do this on one and see how hot the thing gets. Thanks for the tip.
I won't argue either way, but I can tell you we didn't weld mine with them in. We tig'd in the inserts, and I just liberally applied antisieze when I installed the heims. All 7 links, panhard, and both steering arms.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:26 PM   #104 (permalink)
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The majority of my time is work and family so late nights and weekends is when I get to work on this HEEP.
I can relate... well, I don't get weekends

Was just curious if you were having to snug the bracket in to the rod end/spacer before hitting those corners. Looks good
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:09 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Don't weld with the rod ends in. Not only because of the injection molding in the rod ends but mainly because your going to never get that rod end out, it'll seize. These are Ruffstuff heims BTW but the same goes for any joint. I've had several people call me up who have done it this way and had to order all new rod ends and tube adapters because even though they let it cool, it still locked.

Just don't crank up the heat so much, take your time and let it cool slowly, don't flash cool it. That article actually mentions this.

As far as threading it in, that seems like a good rule. I generally just thread it in a few threads more than halfway. Generally used 7 threads as a minimum but thats just my personal use, nothing official
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:06 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Don't weld with the rod ends in. Not only because of the injection molding in the rod ends but mainly because your going to never get that rod end out, it'll seize. These are Ruffstuff heims BTW but the same goes for any joint. I've had several people call me up who have done it this way and had to order all new rod ends and tube adapters because even though they let it cool, it still locked.

Just don't crank up the heat so much, take your time and let it cool slowly, don't flash cool it. That article actually mentions this.

As far as threading it in, that seems like a good rule. I generally just thread it in a few threads more than halfway. Generally used 7 threads as a minimum but thats just my personal use, nothing official
Thanks Artec. Your right, they are Ruff Stuff. I forgot where I bought what. $$$'s keep flying out of my checking account! I heard from a buddy of mine to buy a bolt and weld it with the bolt in so it won't distort. I suppose I then have the potential to not get the bolt out, but like you said, don't crank up the heat. I agree not to weld with the rod end in so I won't. I will figure it out as I go, just like this build. Thanks and sorry for the wrong reference on parts. I bought the truss and some of the brackets from you guys. When I get this setup I am going to order the high steer arms, studs, bolts and hydro link kit from you guys.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #107 (permalink)
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That's cool. We actually sell Ruffstuff Heims too. Just didn't want to take credit for something we don't make just sell. Build is looking good so far.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Just for fun, if anyone gets bored and wants to see what and where I wheel, I have an ad free no sales personal site with all our shenanigans from 1996 till present @ Wheeln Dot Com.
Most of the current videos link back to Youtube so I can't guarantee there aren't ads on a few of those.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:04 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Well this sucks. I can't use my fancy upper frame mount brackets. I can probably use them when I do the rear 4 link and stretch. Now I see why I saw so many TJ's using small tabs on the upper frame side with the heim mounted horizontally. I checked and at my upper link length of 29", (70+% of my lowers [41.25"]), the heim moves 12" at the axle. This movement is within my 10" down travel range. I will mount the frame side tabs horizontal and at a downward angle to allow a little more drop since my up travel will only be 4".


New method. Copying others way of doing it.


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Old 06-12-2013, 10:04 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I always weld my inserts in with the heims/johnny joints partially threaded in, maybe an inch or so. The trick is to use a good high temp anti-seize on the threads.

I TIG weld them, welding about inch at a time, then moving to another insert, giving the last one time to cool. That way they never get too hot, and the heim never really sees that much heat. I keep an eye on the temp with my infrared thermometer. Then I let them naturally cool to room temperature before I touch them.

I have probably made about 24 arms like this, and they all turned out perfectly.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:08 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Well this sucks. I can't use my fancy upper frame mount brackets. I can probably use them when I do the rear 4 link and stretch. Now I see why I saw so many TJ's using small tabs on the upper frame side with the heim mounted horizontally. I checked and at my upper link length of 29", (70+% of my lowers [41.25"]), the heim moves 12" at the axle. This movement is within my 10" down travel range. I will mount the frame side tabs horizontal and at a downward angle to allow a little more drop since my up travel will only be 4".
Here's how I did mine -

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:22 PM   #112 (permalink)
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On a positive note I got my lower links all done, sort of. I need to paint them and weld up the lower brackets on the lower lip like Coma pointed out.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I always weld my inserts in with the heims/johnny joints partially threaded in, maybe an inch or so. The trick is to use a good high temp anti-seize on the threads.

I TIG weld them, welding about inch at a time, then moving to another insert, giving the last one time to cool. That way they never get too hot, and the heim never really sees that much heat. I keep an eye on the temp with my infrared thermometer. Then I let them naturally cool to room temperature before I touch them.

I have probably made about 24 arms like this, and they all turned out perfectly.
I ended up welding mine with nothing in them. I set my 220v Hobart 180 series to position 2 of 4, which I believe is around 75 amp output. The 180 has a 25 - 180 amp range. I tacked 3 points and worked my way around not spending to much time on it. I saw the penetration signatures on the inside of the threads so I know I had enough heat. After they cooled the rod ends threaded in without issue. Thanks for the tip though.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:29 PM   #114 (permalink)
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One thing I did do however is before I cut anything I welded on one bung. I let it cool and made sure the rod end would screw in. This way if it didn't I would still have plenty of link to cut up and would just order another bung.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:31 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I am going to drill out my tabs to 3/4" holes and then chop them down to clear the driveline.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:36 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Crap MQ79. I like the tabs you used on your upper frame side because they are boxed on the back side. I guess I should either box mine in with some spare scrap or just order those. My links are long and my upper axle side brackets are close to center. Can you send a picture of your axle side? I see your links are on the side of your oil pan. Mine are running under it. I have been thinking of moving the tabs out a bit to get away from the motor, but I like having the articulation point as close to the center as I can get. I think I will be cutting it close to the pan at this angle though. I will find out when I get my uppers tacked in and cycle it.

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Old 06-12-2013, 11:00 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Here is what I mean by under. You can see how close the passenger side upper is to the pan. I am probably going to move both out a bit just to add a little clearance here.



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Old 06-12-2013, 11:05 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Where I am at now.

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Old 06-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #119 (permalink)
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I doubt it I will ever hang up on these brackets. They will be so close to the 40" tire that an extra 1.5" of bracket hanging at a drop approach angle shouldn't hang up.
I put my lowers in the same place, middle front of belly pan.
My last Jeep had them strait back on the frame rails, like you see them often. I would smack and drag off them all the time.
Now we'll drag off them from the middle. I don't think it's a big deal either.

I know what you mean. A couple of nights a week and maybe a weekend day sure makes for a slow build. I'm on year 5.

The project looks great... Keep it up.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:44 AM   #120 (permalink)
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not sure if you are going to address this, but be sure to plate the frame where you weld on those tabs for the upper. They WILL rip out of the frame.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:01 PM   #121 (permalink)
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not sure if you are going to address this, but be sure to plate the frame where you weld on those tabs for the upper. They WILL rip out of the frame.
I hadn't thought much about it. I was planning on plating the rear lowers on the belly pan a bit, but I guess that makes sense to plate the uppers also. I saw that is what MQ79 did. Thanks Man.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:25 PM   #122 (permalink)
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This is all I have for pic's. My upper control arm frame and axle brackets are from Artec. Right now my axle is at Crawlertech getting gears, a Grizzly locker and RCV's. And I'm in the process of finish welding everything, so I won't have any new pic's for a while.

Full Bump...






For my build, I wanted everything tucked up as high as possible. Lower axle mounts slightly above axle center line. And the frame side lower mounts mounted even with the frame. I have 6.5" of up travel and 7.5" of down. It should be a very balanced suspension.



And yes, it is a good idea to plate the frame where you weld your brackets on. It is much easier to bench weld your brackets to the plate and then weld the plate to the frame too. A big tip I learned, is to spend a little extra time finding the best place the brackets, that allows you to easily weld them to frame. Some place you can fit and see what you are welding and be able to freely move your torch.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:59 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Thanks MQ! Man you do have your links stuffed up in there. I may chop up the frame in the front in the future but for now I have to get this thing mobile so I can move into a new home. I will definitely plate the links. Thanks for the tips.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:27 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Tonight seemed like a lot of work for not much gain. I can't believe how much time this is consuming.
Tonight I decided to make my own upper brackets out of tabs and some scrap metal.

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Old 06-15-2013, 02:28 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Poor mans Plasma / Welding table.




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