TJ Draglink and Trackbar in same plane - why ? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Jeep - Hardcore Tech
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2001, 01:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Question TJ Draglink and Trackbar in same plane - why ?

OK, I'm getting my hi-steer done as we speak and have always read that the angle of the draglink and trackbar should be approximately equal.

Why is this and what will result if they are not ?

Thanks

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 01:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
FNG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 100
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 839
Send a message via ICQ to FNG Send a message via AIM to FNG Send a message via Yahoo to FNG
Post

Bumpsteer
__________________
John
FNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-08-2001, 01:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 792
Location: El Dorado County CA
Posts: 2,176
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by FNG:
<STRONG>Bumpsteer</STRONG>
geez FNG, do ya have to drone on and on with the long explanations <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
__________________
01 TJ
Dan-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 03:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5516
Location: Escondido, California
Posts: 318
Post

Heh heh, I'm incapable of short and to-the-point answers like "Bumpsteer".

Unless the draglink and trackbar (AKA Panhard) are parallel, the draglink's radius will change disproportionately to the trackbar as the suspension moves up and down. That causes the steering wheel to turn left and right as the front suspension travels up and down... which is known as 'bumpsteer'. So if you hit a bump, the steering wheel can be violently spun right or left out of your hands. Or as you crawl slowly over uneven terrain, you'll feel the steering wheel turning left and right in sync with the front axle's up and down movements.

So yep, it's important the steering geometry be considered to avoid such problems.
Jerry Bransford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 04:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Cool

The reason I asked this is I've always read this but it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I thought bumpsteer is caused by too high an angle in the draglink - it has nothing to do with the front trackbar. The purpose of the trackbar is to center the axle.

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 04:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 144
Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona
Posts: 6,867
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by DippStick:
<STRONG>The reason I asked this is I've always read this but it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I thought bumpsteer is caused by too high an angle in the draglink - it has nothing to do with the front trackbar. The purpose of the trackbar is to center the axle.

DS</STRONG>
Well, this is true on a leaf sprung vehicle. Since the springs retain the axle in a fixed position the droplink has to be on the same plane as the tierod to keep it moving on the same arc as the suspension. On a linked suspension the springs do not provide this functionality, so the trackbar does. Since the trackbar is now doing the work the leaf springs do (and thus effecting the arc the axle travels in while cycling) the droplink has to move in the same arc as the trackbar.
__________________
That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole
I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means
mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 05:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Member # 1370
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,915
Post

DS - where are you putting the tie rod? Or... how are you doing the hi steer? I'll be doing mine shortly too.

Paul
nasvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 07:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Smile

I got a single hi-steer arm from Joel @ StageWest. The mounting lock cones and c-lock nuts are coming from Dynatrack. I believe they sell the arms also.

You can get D44 arms from www.samsoffroad.com which should help ya <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
They have pics of the shape.

I'm drilling the cast knuckles out to 3/4" and using heims from MORE on the tierod.

On the draglink I'm drilling out the hi-steer arm and using a 3/4" heim there with a 1/2" spacer to allow flex and mounting underneath.

On the PA side I'm drilling through a stock PA @ 5/8" and mounting the RockRam above and a 5/8" heim below.

I was asking about the trackbar because Troy doesn't believe me on the dragling and trackbar having to be @ the same angle. I wanted clarification since I've seen it written on various boards so often - I just wanted to know why.

I guess we may need to lift the trackbar mount slightly (although CJ Lagos thinks its pretty good if you go under the hi-steer arm).

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 07:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Member # 1370
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,915
Post

Sounds similar to my plan. I'll do a Heim ended trackbar like you describe. Will put it under the hi steer arm. The ram will attach to the pitman arm like yours.

I think the tie rod will go knuckle to knuckle on top of the stock location. TREs though. They'll be one ton stuff. I'd like to put it higher, but I think it'll interfere with the springs on full turn.

Paul
nasvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2001, 11:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 792
Location: El Dorado County CA
Posts: 2,176
Post

<STRONG>I think the tie rod will go knuckle to knuckle on top of the stock location.</STRONG>

I looked at doing an over-the nuckle TR but it looks like the sway bar mounts would need to move, the steering stabilizer mount would have to move or be trimmed and the leading edge of the spring cup mounts would need to be trimmed.

are your knuckles different than mine?

- Dan
__________________
01 TJ
Dan-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2001, 06:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Member # 1370
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,915
Post

Dan - yes my knuckles are different. The whole front axle is a lot bigger. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I'll be removing the stabilizer, and moving the link brackets is no problem.

Paul
nasvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2001, 08:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ChinLei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5685
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 152
Send a message via Yahoo to ChinLei
Post

One thing I haven't seen mentioned on this thread is that the drag link and the track bar should not only be parallel, but equal length also. Just my 2 cents.
__________________
"Get her drunk & do her in the ass like you always wanted, then file for the divorce."
[I]-OILBURNER[/I]
ChinLei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2001, 04:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Question

Why equal length ?

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2001, 04:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Member # 1370
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,915
Post

DS. Take two toothpicks and hold them parallel between your fingers. Move one side up and down. The fingers stay parallel. Now, cut 1/2" off of a toothpic and to it again. Each toothpick will travel in a different arc. Same is true if the ends are different differences apart, but the toothpicks are the same length.

That's bumpsteer. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Paul
nasvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2001, 09:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Cool

Hmmm, OK, that makes sense.
Something else to consider I guess.

Thanks

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2001, 10:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 892
Location: Burbank, Ca.
Posts: 90
Post

My track toothpick is 3" shorter than my steering tooth pick and I don't have bumpsteer. I guess I should go fix it, huh? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
Brad Kilby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2001, 07:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
M/C MAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 825
Location: SAN JOSE CA USA
Posts: 378
Post

I like the idea of using a light weight material for parts, but what do you guys weld the toothpicks with? Matches? I can't get them to hold very well. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
M/C MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2001, 08:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Grandpa Jeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1868
Location: Peyton, CO
Posts: 1,680
Send a message via MSN to Grandpa Jeep
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by M/C MAN:
<STRONG>I like the idea of using a light weight material for parts, but what do you guys weld the toothpicks with? Matches? I can't get them to hold very well. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
They take that special Wood rod. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Expensive and hard to get though.
__________________
'50 CJ-3A, SVO Turbo 2.3L, T-98, D18, Warn OD, PTO Winch, D30, FFD44, lockrites in both
Jeeps, they're not just a hobby, they're a freakin adventure :D
:usa:
Grandpa Jeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2001, 12:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 144
Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona
Posts: 6,867
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Kilby:
<STRONG>My track toothpick is 3" shorter than my steering tooth pick and I don't have bumpsteer. I guess I should go fix it, huh? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
betcha it all moves in the same arc dont it <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
__________________
That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole
I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means
mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2001, 05:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Member # 1370
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,915
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Kilby:
<STRONG>My track toothpick is 3" shorter than my steering tooth pick and I don't have bumpsteer. I guess I should go fix it, huh? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Yeah!! There's no way you can't have bumpsteer!! <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Paul
nasvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2001, 06:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
P&T Jeeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3916
Location: south
Posts: 2,823
Post

Dan, I have already done a setup similar to what you are describing on my TJ. I could not use a solid tie rod from knuckle to knuckle is b/c I have 30 knuckles on a 44 and the tie rod would not clear the diff cover. So I ran a solid draglink to the top of the knuckle then welded a bracket at about a 45 degree forward/down to connect the tie rod to. This was very effictive in eliminating any play you might have in you steering wheel. I did learn not to drill out your knuckles to 3/4", rather drill to 5/8" and use a reducer in the heim. This will allow you to use the tapered spacers from RE to get more movment out of the heims. The swaybar mounts do have to be moved and the spring perches cut as you said. So far I have been nothing but satisfied with the setup. I do have some pics if interested.
__________________
TJ; ARB'd & ChroMo'd 1-tons; 42" IROK's; Atlas 4.3; 4-linked, 106" WB...

[URL="http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274444"]The Build[/URL]
P&T Jeeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2001, 07:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Member # 1370
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,915
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by P&T jeeps:
<STRONG>I do have some pics if interested.</STRONG>
Yes please!!!
nasvik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2001, 07:30 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Cool

P&T,

My axle has D60 knuckles so it's slightly different to your setup. This is how I can drill to 3/4".

I'm getting 1/2" tapered spacers made for all the heims to allow them to flex properly.

Things nearly done if Sams Offroad could feed their monkeys now and again and get them to do some work <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2001, 11:21 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
P&T Jeeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3916
Location: south
Posts: 2,823
Post

dipp, where are you getting the spacers from? I couldn't find any with a 3/4" ID...
__________________
TJ; ARB'd & ChroMo'd 1-tons; 42" IROK's; Atlas 4.3; 4-linked, 106" WB...

[URL="http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274444"]The Build[/URL]
P&T Jeeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2001, 03:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 816
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 838
Cool

A friend in San Jose is machining them for me <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

DS
DippStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.