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Old 07-22-2004, 01:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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tight steering in 4WD

Ok... so I just finished swapping in a wagoneer 44 front to replace my d30 in a 75 CJ5. Had it narrowed to match my rear narrow-track 44. New WARN shafts, 5.38s and a mini spool. Everything worked great last weekend on the trail except the steering. When I'm in 2WD, no probs. As soon as I even lock in the hubs, my steering goes to crap. If I have the wheels pointing straight.. i can usually turn all the way to one side. however, when trying to straighten back out... about 1/2way there, the wheel binds up (feels like I'm up against a rock and can't turn anymore).. and i get the pwr steering noise. But, they're not rubbing anything that I can see... If i let loose of the wheel and drive a little farther down, I can correct it in 10 or 15 yards. Any ideas?
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Old 07-22-2004, 01:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I hope this is a joke

Lets see if this can drag on until SUPER THURSDAY
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Old 07-22-2004, 01:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I doubt its a joke said though
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Old 07-22-2004, 01:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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have your wife steer it.
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Old 07-22-2004, 01:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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nope.. not a joke... but damn.. that was flamed quick

I realize that steering w/a spool in the front is crap (my d30 had the spiders welded together so I'm used to it).. but this is worse than that.
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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binding u joint in your steering shaft?
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp
binding u joint in your steering shaft?
umm.. i suppose that's possible... and I"ll check it tonight... but I didn't move the steering box from where it was before, so I don't see why it would be binding now.
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ya but have you done a body lift?
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Were your spiders welded to the carrier or just together? If it was just the gears together I seem to recall that Dana axles the spiders if they are only welded together and not also to the case that they will be in a sense slightly free giving the easier steering feel where as the spool does not. Just a thought.

Sounds like hoakus pokus to me though a spool and welds are the same no other changes were made? are the knuckles different or is your caster different? that migh be causing the tighter feel.

Caster different on one knuckle than on the other?
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacTrack
...snip...and a mini spool. ...........
Spool is in the front? Then there is why.... spool will make the Jeep want to go straight and not turn.
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Forgot - Did you try unlocking one hub and see if it still happened?
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TonCJ-7
Spool is in the front? Then there is why.... spool will make the Jeep want to go straight and not turn.
I run a spool in the front and i can still turn my wheels,,doest mean the rig turns but my wheels do,hes saying the steering wheel wont turn,,,,,,Just get into a situation where it binds ,hop out and take a look
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Old 07-22-2004, 02:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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it's all the mini-spool. If the problem only occurs when you lock it in, by simple deduction, you've found your culpret.
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Old 07-22-2004, 03:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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ok.. I put the whole new axle in (waggy d44).. has flat top knuckles, and now has high steer where it didn't before. so yes, I lot has changed... but my whole point is... when I'm in 2WD, everything works fine.. it's only when I lock in the hubs I have problems.... it will even have problems when still in 2WD if the hubs are locked. so it has to be something in the axle... I just don't understand what. and as before.. it's not that it's just hard to steer..(I had that before)... it's that it just plain locks the steering wheel up going from side to side. if it's going from straight to a side, it's ok. I"ll try locking just a single hub and see what happens.
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Old 07-22-2004, 03:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It is the spool....

welded front Spool all the same. Lock those hubs and you need to be on some dirt or mud for it to act even decent...

TWO WHEEL DRIVE or 4 WHEEL DRIVE does not matter...and yes you are correct that it is something with the axle...it is the fact that you have now joined those wheels together...the are no longer free to spin at their own rate.

The rim on the inside of your turn (lets just say passenger) is spinning at a much slower rate than the rim on the outside of your turn (driver) when turning to the right....

it is this friction that is causing your binding...regardless of whether in 2wd or 4wd....


this is really basic automotive and mechanical knowledge....
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Old 07-22-2004, 03:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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All I have to say is TWIN STICK, 2-LOW.
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Old 07-22-2004, 03:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hydro assist Eric Lockers are bad enough for steering but the spool is fawkin with ya
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Old 07-22-2004, 04:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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he he... ok.. maybe I'm completely naive here... but I stil don't understand why I didn't have this problem when I had the Dana30 welded front. I'll believe you guys that it's the mini spool.. but man...
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Old 07-22-2004, 05:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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D30 is a hell of a lot lighter than a D44. Added weight can cause the rig to dislike turning. Also, the caster could be negative (vs the 30) which is binding the tires when trying to return to center. Are you running diff tires that have better traction?
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Old 07-22-2004, 05:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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are we really discussing this







dumb.
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Old 07-22-2004, 06:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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it is odd that it didn't do it with a welded D30, but does it with the D44. a twin-stick or 2Low won't make any difference, only unlocking a hub will.

check your caster. did you change tires? get hydro-assist.
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Old 07-22-2004, 06:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Who did the narrowing job for you? I reread your post, and if it is truely binding up so that the wheel won't turn at all, then I am thunking that something is out of whack with your front end. A U-joint could be binding up because of the alignment between the steering arm and axle tube to diff.. a bent shaft maybe? bad U-joint? Just throwing some ideas out there. But my guess is something out of alignment and the spool is adding to it making it noticeable since it locks both sides together solidly.
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Old 07-22-2004, 08:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddestruel
Were your spiders welded to the carrier or just together? If it was just the gears together I seem to recall that Dana axles the spiders if they are only welded together and not also to the case that they will be in a sense slightly free giving the easier steering feel where as the spool does not. Just a thought.

That makes no sense and isn't true, just so you don't know. Nor does twin sticking a front spool work...

If it were steering ujoints then you wouldn't get the pump whine, if it were your new linkages binding then it would also happen in 2wd. Are your shaft lengths correct? Have you had someone else turn/drive while you stand in front and watch u joints and linkages? Did you change the pitman? How long is the histeer arm?...
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Old 07-22-2004, 09:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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.... Are your shaft lengths correct? Have you had someone else turn/drive while you stand in front and watch u joints and linkages?...
Good point, goes along with what I said about the narrowing and alignment of the tubes.
Sinceit only does it in 4 wheel, you can rule out steering linkages, joints, pitman arms etc. Or else it you would think that it would do it in 2 wheel also. I have never seen a spool cause so much bind that the steering wouldn't move. I really think it is in the axle tubes/shafts somewhere.
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Old 07-22-2004, 11:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TonCJ-7
Good point, goes along with what I said about the narrowing and alignment of the tubes.
Sinceit only does it in 4 wheel, you can rule out steering linkages, joints, pitman arms etc. Or else it you would think that it would do it in 2 wheel also. I have never seen a spool cause so much bind that the steering wouldn't move. I really think it is in the axle tubes/shafts somewhere.

Damn, didn't even see your post. I hafta agree, bad joint or one (or both) of the joints/yokes are out of alignment and when moving don't want to turn...
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