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Old 08-01-2004, 05:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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oil pump priming...?`

OK so i fawked up and forgot to fill my new oil pump with oil, now when i start it (when i remembered ) i have 0 oil pressure. great! any tricks to prim the pump after the pan and everything is back on? its on a 4.0L.

the reason i replaced it is because it was reading 10PSI due to a clogged oil pump screen, so i dropped the pan cleaned the tons of shit out and threw it back on (just a rebuild on the pump not a new one) should it prime itself? or is it due to the air in there and not sucking oil? little help!
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That's a pretty newb question, Chris ...

Pull the coil wire and crank it until it self primes ...
but if it won't then pull the distributor, cut off the handle off a long flat head screwdriver, put the shank in a drill, stick it down the hole and spin the pump until you get pressure.
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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you can make a oil pump primer from a distributor.
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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well i let the motor run for like 2 min befor i noticed it had know oil presure... so cranking it is out of the question. the drill method i know how to do but the motor ran for like 2 min thats way longer than it takes a drill to prim it... but i will try that.

i know its not the guage cuz the valve cover is off and no oil is coming through the push rods...

also when i pulled the pump cover (to replace teh gears) it didnt have a gasket, when i put it back together i used the super thin gasket, could that be enough to cuse it not to prim/pump?
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Old 08-01-2004, 07:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There is not soupzzed to to be a gasket there!
Ferget about any OEM or blueprint clearances now. ...
... and ferget about having any OP either.
Classic case of over-thinking the situation ...
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Old 08-01-2004, 07:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjeep7
well i let the motor run for like 2 min befor i noticed it had know oil presure
Those crank bearings must look good now. If I were you I'd pull the pan again but now start checking the bearings. Then if they look ok pull the pump and grease the gears.
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Old 08-01-2004, 07:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjeep7
OK so i fawked up and forgot to fill my new oil pump with oil, now when i start it (when i remembered ) i have 0 oil pressure. great! any tricks to prim the pump after the pan and everything is back on? its on a 4.0L.
I've always packed the oil pump gears and pickup with vasoline. I think it dissapates better with heat than grease.
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 1MrWillys
I've always packed the oil pump gears and pickup with vasoline. I think it dissapates better with heat than grease.
I used the word 'grease' loosely, vaseline does break down in oil much better than straight up grease. I've used it in TH400 rebuilds and it never fails. There used to be some assembly grease on the market, prolly still is, that was meant for being in oil conditions. It was vaseline with red coloring, don't know if they still make it.
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 1MrWillys
I've always packed the oil pump gears and pickup with vasoline. I think it dissapates better with heat than grease.
Read, Dweb ...
A little late and not too great again, Willie ... take the clue ...
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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the bearings are fine. thats not what i am worried about. it was just idling, hell i have done alot worse to engines in the past (for S&G's) i know about the Vaseline trick too, why i didnt do it is beyond me....this is not my first time to put in an oil pump or to assemble an engine....i dont know WTF i was thinking...arrrgggg

now are you sure there is not supposed to be a gasket in there? it came with one. hell it was about the thickness of a piece of paper. hummmm looks like i am pulling the pan again....

EDIT: i am a retard, i remember the one i did a month ago and i didnt put that gasket in there that they include. why is it the things you have done a million times come back to bite you in the ass.
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Idling or not, it's still a firing cylinder pushing a bearing up against a steel pin, so to speak. If there's no oil there's no real bearing.

Regardless, I've never had a problem not priming a pump. 2 minutes is a long time without it self priming. Just a quick thought, what about throwing in 3 more quarts of oil, hopefully enough to raise the level to get a good prime. Then just drain it all and refill to proper. I'm suggesting this with no more then 1 minute to think of reprecussions.
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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From:
"Mopar Jeep Engines, Speed Secrets & Racing Modifications for Jeep-Built 4. 6 & V-8 Engines"
2nd Edition

Oil Pump Gear Clearance Measurment

Prefered Method
a. Place a Plastigague across the full width of each gear.
b. Install the pump cover and tighten the bolts to 70 in. lbs.* torque.
*(Thats INCH POUNDS) jaf
c. Remove the pump cover and determine the amount of clearance by measuring the width of compressed Plastigague with the scale on the Plastigage enevlope.
d. The correct clearance by this method is 0.051-0.152 mm (0.002-0.006 inch) The preferred measurment is 0.051 mm (0.002 inch).

Alternative Method
a. Place a straightedge across the ends of the gears and the pump body.
b. Select a feeler gauge that fits snugly but freely between the straightedge and the pump gears.
c. Using this method, the correct clearance is 0.051-.0150 mm (0.002-0.006 inch), with the preferred measurment being 0.051 mm (0.002 inch)
d.If the gear end clearance is excessive, replace the oil pump assembly.
----------

It really does sound like your pump is sucking air ...
0.002" is pretty skinny!
JAF

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Old 08-02-2004, 04:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Remove the oil pump gasket. I would check the rod & main bearings.
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Old 08-02-2004, 08:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjeep7
when i put it back together i used the super thin gasket, could that be enough to cuse it not to prim/pump?

Yup. To much clearance now. At least that's my guess.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It does sound like the gasket is killin you.

I do have to ask one question though. I do not mean any disrespect. I have seen some "highly experienced journeyman" techs do this.

Did you put any oil in the engine?
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Old 08-02-2004, 05:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i'vs never been inside a jeep 4.0 but some fords use a rod from the distributar down to the oil pump.... maybe you forgot to put it back in, also did you rebuild the pump or buy a rebuilt pump? if you rebuilt it your self maybe you forgot to put the gears back in
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98blacktj
i'vs never been inside a jeep 4.0 but some fords use a rod from the distributar down to the oil pump.... maybe you forgot to put it back in, also did you rebuild the pump or buy a rebuilt pump? if you rebuilt it your self maybe you forgot to put the gears back in
Jeeps have no oil pump drive shaft. The bottom of the distributor fits right into the oil pump.
It would be REAL HARD to forget to install the gears.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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umm, it happens dude. nobody will admit to it but it happens. almost as much as doing an oil change and forgetting to add oil. that happens also. sounds like you may be cavitating(sucking air). good luck
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinDoug
Idling or not, it's still a firing cylinder pushing a bearing up against a steel pin, so to speak. If there's no oil there's no real bearing.

Regardless, I've never had a problem not priming a pump. 2 minutes is a long time without it self priming. Just a quick thought, what about throwing in 3 more quarts of oil, hopefully enough to raise the level to get a good prime. Then just drain it all and refill to proper. I'm suggesting this with no more then 1 minute to think of reprecussions.
I would think the cam bearings, cam, timing chain, and lifters would be more prone to failure due to no oil pressure, not the crank bearings. If he had oil in the pan that means the crankshaft bearing caps are actually submersed in it, and with the holes that they squirt oil on the cylinder walls and other items in the bottom end of the engine. Its not like the oil pump system has a sprinkler system to coat these items, nor does it have access galleyways to force oil in there..
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Old 08-03-2004, 04:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I would think the cam bearings, cam, timing chain, and lifters would be more prone to failure due to no oil pressure, not the crank bearings. If he had oil in the pan that means the crankshaft bearing caps are actually submersed in it, and with the holes that they squirt oil on the cylinder walls and other items in the bottom end of the engine. Its not like the oil pump system has a sprinkler system to coat these items, nor does it have access galleyways to force oil in there..
I don't know where you got that from, but the oil puimp forces oil thru the galleys to the crank. When an engine is starved for oil, the first bearings that go are the main crank bearings. This is due to the crank spinning forcing the little oil that is inside it out to the rod bearings.
EVERY engine that I have torn down due to oil starvation has had major main crank bearings wiped out, then the rod bearings.
PS. The oil level in the pan is lower than the crank, this is so the crank does not drag thru the oil and loose HP & torque due to the drag the oil will cause. Get your fact together before you spout off this dribble.
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Old 08-03-2004, 07:42 AM   #21 (permalink)
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When I install a new or "reman" engine, I take the spark plugs out and spin it over until I get pressure.
With no compression the is load less and higher cranking rpm.
Some times it helps to take the filter off until the pump starts to pump.

hth
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JeepCrawler98
I would think the cam bearings, cam, timing chain, and lifters would be more prone to failure due to no oil pressure, not the crank bearings. If he had oil in the pan that means the crankshaft bearing caps are actually submersed in it, and with the holes that they squirt oil on the cylinder walls and other items in the bottom end of the engine. Its not like the oil pump system has a sprinkler system to coat these items, nor does it have access galleyways to force oil in there..
For being 110% wrong you are very good at it. Everything you said is the exact opposite of what actually happens.
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Right on I've just never seen the galleyways that lube the crank when I've had engines apart. Any pix? I know there's drain holes that drain the top end back into the pand, but on some engines these are only in one spot so that can't be it.

edit: nevermind, just found the oiling diagram in my FSM, damn I'm fawking cool
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JeepCrawler98
...edit: nevermind, just found the oiling diagram in my FSM, damn I'm a fawking asswipe
Fixed it for ya!
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks!
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