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Old 09-04-2004, 07:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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HP Dana 44 with 30 spline outers

I'm in the process of taking out the old Ford 19 spline manual hubs from my 1979 HP 44 and was looking around for WARN replacements. I came across 19 spline and 30 spline hubs. Question is does anyone know if a 30 spline outer shaft will fit? I remember reading on here that someone was going to try the 30 spline outers with 30 spline hubs. Never read an outcome. Anyone know?
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Old 09-04-2004, 03:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The only way I know of to get a 30 spline stub axle on a D44 is to use D30 outers. This can be with CJ knuckles on the D44 inner C's or use TJ inner C's and knuckles. Warn makes a premium hub kit for both the CJ knuckles and the TJ/YJ/XJ/ZJ knuckles that uses a 30 spline chromo stub axle. The major problem with doing this would be not getting the hysteer that you get with the flat top D44 knuckles.

So, you can have hysteer, or 30 spline stubs, but not both...............as far as I know. I went through the same issue when I built my D44. I had a D30 with the Warn 30 spline hub kit and chromo 30 spline stubs, and it was hard to go to 19 spline stubs. I've run it OK for 2 years, but I broke a Warn 19 spline chomo stub last week.
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Old 09-04-2004, 08:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The CJ kit would not work with the ford knuckles. The spindles have different bolt patterns. You could swap knuckles out for dodge, chevy or FSJ. Does Warn include spindles with their kit? The CJ spindles have a small ID, so small that 19 spline outers will not even pass through.
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Old 09-05-2004, 02:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Looks like I'm stickin with 19 spline outers! Damnit
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elarsen
The CJ kit would not work with the ford knuckles. The spindles have different bolt patterns. You could swap knuckles out for dodge, chevy or FSJ. Does Warn include spindles with their kit? The CJ spindles have a small ID, so small that 19 spline outers will not even pass through.
That's why I said "This can be with CJ knuckles on the D44 inner C's". Warn doesn't make a 30 spline hub kit for any of the D44 knuckles, only for D30 knuckles. Too bad. The Warn kits come with spindles........they have to.
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RocknXJ
That's why I said "This can be with CJ knuckles on the D44 inner C's". Warn doesn't make a 30 spline hub kit for any of the D44 knuckles, only for D30 knuckles. Too bad. The Warn kits come with spindles........they have to.
CJ spindles will bolt right up to Chevy or Dodge knuckles.
Been there, done that. (Not unit bearing dodge) Pre unit bearing flat top Dodge are also clocked a few degrees different than Chevy, clocking the caliper closer to the ground.

If the kit will fit CJ knuckles, it will fit Chevy or Dodge flat tops.
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Old 09-06-2004, 01:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elarsen
CJ spindles will bolt right up to Chevy or Dodge knuckles.
Been there, done that. (Not unit bearing dodge) Pre unit bearing flat top Dodge are also clocked a few degrees different than Chevy, clocking the caliper closer to the ground.

If the kit will fit CJ knuckles, it will fit Chevy or Dodge flat tops.
Well, I wasn't aware of that. Warn says to be able to use the 30 spline stub a Warn spindle must be used or the stock CJ spindle needs to be bored to 1.350". There must be another reason that it won't work, like the brakes not matching up, since a CJ hub and rotor would have to be used.
Otherwise, this would be a common way to get 30 spline stubs for a D44.
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So, does anyone have anymore info on this? Anyone running 30 spline outers in their D44?
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Old 09-23-2004, 09:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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another option is, humor me on this but:

run TJ endforgings and outer hardware and upgrade to the 30 spline kit that i think drivetrain direct sells. then you could have 30 spline outers on a d44.
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Old 09-24-2004, 11:36 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Could you run the Warn 30 spline hub kit on a Rubicon D44 and then use the downeast offroad high steer kit that replaces the knuckles with a LHD WJ knuckle, and a RHD WJ knuckle? If that all works...D44 diff, 30 spline outers, high steer...what would be "weak" about that Rubicon D44?

I think at that point, I'd rather just sell them and get full width prorocks or a strange 9" rear end.
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Old 09-24-2004, 11:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ?????
Could you run the Warn 30 spline hub kit on a Rubicon D44 and then use the downeast offroad high steer kit that replaces the knuckles with a LHD WJ knuckle, and a RHD WJ knuckle?
All that money and you coulda just done a 60 front Not worth it in my book.
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Old 09-24-2004, 11:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Drivetrain Direct's 30 spline upgrade is for TJ unit bearings...poopy...
If the stock spindle can be bored out according to Warn, why can't the stock Ford spindle be bored out?

Is the Warn outer axle long enough? or is it worth it? why not keep the outers the fuse in the system, or is the 19 spline outer that much weaker?


I am currently building my hp44 and would like to make this upgrade as well.
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Old 09-25-2004, 09:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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There must be someone who has done this. Sure, you can put D30 outers on a D44, like most of the custom axle builders do for TJ's, and run the Warn 5 on 5.5" hub kit with 30 spline stubs and hubs, and you can do this with WJ knuckles to get high steer (expensive way to go). But, I already have Chevy knuckes with hysteer and don't want to change, but would like to have 30 spline stub axles. BTW, I put my calipers on the D44 19 spline stub to measure the diameter at the inside of the splines, and then measured a 27 spline D30 stub I had, and it was basically the same diameter when measured inside the splines. I had just broken a Warn 19 spline stub at the splines.

Supposedly, the 30 spline Warn locking hub that is used in the internal spline Premium hub upgrade kit for a CJ will fit in a D44 wheel hub. Superior is now making a D44 30 spline stub axle, so these should be able to be used together, but I'd like to find someone who has done it before spending the money.
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Old 09-25-2004, 10:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I am running a ford dana 44 with HD cj dana 30 outer knuckles and Scout II 27 spline outer shafts. Pretty close to what you want.
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Old 09-25-2004, 10:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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mine is 30 spline. but I used the TJ C's
they look puny and I have since welded extra webbing to them.
I am digging the axle though......
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272238[
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Old 09-25-2004, 02:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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someone do this guy a favor...

take a micrometer, and measure the spline surface of a 30sp D44 axle, and the spline surface of a D44 19sp stub shaft...

when you post the result to say they are both approx 1.31in you will see there is NO size difference in an aftermarket axle. Hell even a spicer is the same size at the spline area. the 19 splines are just course.

so someone tell me how you will have a cost effective gain?

warn 30sp locking hubs were made for jeep rear Full Floater axle kit's for flat towing...

yes they make outer conversions for YJ/TJ's but the part's aren't even remotly interchangable...
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Old 09-25-2004, 05:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSI
someone do this guy a favor...

take a micrometer, and measure the spline surface of a 30sp D44 axle, and the spline surface of a D44 19sp stub shaft...

when you post the result to say they are both approx 1.31in you will see there is NO size difference in an aftermarket axle. Hell even a spicer is the same size at the spline area. the 19 splines are just course.

so someone tell me how you will have a cost effective gain?

warn 30sp locking hubs were made for jeep rear Full Floater axle kit's for flat towing...

yes they make outer conversions for YJ/TJ's but the part's aren't even remotly interchangable...
Do yourself a favor......

The 19 spline D44 stubs are 1.25". I thought everyone knew that. Just to satisfy your request, I just measured one again....a broken Warn, and it's 1.25".

I think I'd rather have a 1.31" 30 spline axle than a 1.25" 19 spline axle.......if I have a choice. That's the one thing that grated on me a few years ago when I did my D44. The D30 I was running had the Warn 5 on 5.5 hub kit with the 1.31" 30 spline chrmo stubs, and I was going to the smaller 19 spline D44 stubs. Everything else was great, but that sucked.
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Old 09-25-2004, 06:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocknXJ
Do yourself a favor......

The 19 spline D44 stubs are 1.25". I thought everyone knew that. Just to satisfy your request, I just measured one again....a broken Warn, and it's 1.25".

I think I'd rather have a 1.31" 30 spline axle than a 1.25" 19 spline axle.

so which way did you measure across the splines or to the high point's of the splines? there's a .05 difference there...

and i'll keep you in mind next time i need axles specs rather than calling the manufactures, i'll call you

the reason you split/twist stub shaft's more ofthen than inner's is an easy answer... think about it, how short is a stub vs an inner? less torsion.

custom made 30sp stub's would be a lil pricy until a certain mfg finishes up R&D/production
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Old 09-26-2004, 12:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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so which way did you measure across the splines or to the high point's of the splines? there's a .05 difference there...

and i'll keep you in mind next time i need axles specs rather than calling the manufactures, i'll call you

the reason you split/twist stub shaft's more ofthen than inner's is an easy answer... think about it, how short is a stub vs an inner? less torsion.

custom made 30sp stub's would be a lil pricy until a certain mfg finishes up R&D/production
Hey, dude, measuring an axle shaft diameter isn't rocket science........

Warn shafts are cut splines, not rolled, so the shaft diameter and spline diameter are the same. Pretty easy to measure......

Stub shafts shorter than inner shafts, so they don't twist as much? Would have never thought of that......
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Old 09-26-2004, 09:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocknXJ
Hey, dude, measuring an axle shaft diameter isn't rocket science........

Warn shafts are cut splines, not rolled, so the shaft diameter and spline diameter are the same. Pretty easy to measure......


did ya hear an airplane as you made this reply? ya, the one that went right over your head

take you calipers and go around the shaft, it's going to vary as the caliper's hit the high point's vs bridging the gap between two splines...

it's not rocket science, you're right... that's why i'm supprised you didn't get that
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Old 09-26-2004, 11:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Ya....or you could just turn the calipers perpendicular to the shaft to start with and measure the splines

Quote:
Warn shafts are cut splines, not rolled, so the shaft diameter and spline diameter are the same.
RoknXJ...I think your wrong if your talking about Warn stub shafts. The splines are raised. Warn inners are like what your saying, spline dia. the same as shaft dia.
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Old 09-26-2004, 11:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by desertCJ
Ya....or you could just turn the calipers perpendicular to the shaft to start with and measure the splines



RoknXJ...I think your wrong if your talking about Warn stub shafts. The splines are raised. Warn inners are like what your saying, spline dia. the same as shaft dia.
Well, I just installed a new one yesterday, so I had a very fresh look. I've also had Warn 30 spline stubs on a d30 and they were the same way. I know my mind may be going, but I don't think my eyes are that bad.

What DSI is saying is that D44 stubs are the same diameter as D44 inners, which they are not.........regardless of who knows how to properly operate a set of calipers.
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Old 09-26-2004, 01:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Well I just went out and measured....19 spline stubs at the splines are smaller than the 30 spline inners. My calipers might be messed up though because I measured the 30 spline inners at 1.29" Oh ya RocknXJ....your right the warn shafts don't have raised splines The stock spicers do though

EDIT: Just to weigh in on this whole topic.....I don't think that getting 30 spline stubs is even worth it! How much does it actually take to bust a chrome molly 19 spline Not impossible, but it takes quite a bit of stupid pedal. I've heard that the hubs will break before the stubs anyways...that's why I still run warn premium hubs even though I have slugs for a trail fix.
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