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Old 12-11-2004, 08:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Soild tie rod Questions

I am contemplating building a tie rod and drag link from solid steel round stock. Manny are running this type of set up and I am basicly looking for any cons against soild as opposed to sleeved tube. Also what type of steel has been used? I have seen h8monday's set up and it seems solid. Plan to use chevrolet 7/8 stud tre's. Any takers??

Alot of good info out there just can't seem to answer the above questions..
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Solid steel is weaker than a thick walled DOM tube. I guess I really dont know how to explain it but, it is. If you doing steering links, build them with 1.5" .25" wall DOM. I guess if your really looking for beef, you could sleeve your tie rod with 1.75" .120 wall DOM. Thats a big link and you might have clearence issues depending on your setup though. My personal experence with this is my Currie steering setup, the tie rod is solid 1.25" steel and I bent it on the very first hard slam. Me and everyone else running the kit that has slammed down on their tierod hard bends it everytime. Pretty shitty for a $100 plus tie rod. I'm going to build a new one with 1.5" .25 wall with heims and I really dont see that link frowning after the first few times it kisses some rocks.

-Michael
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Whatever......solid works just fine. Mine is 1.25" stress proof. It has good memory and stays straight. Down side is, you have to have access to a lathe, or pay someone to run it. And yes, 1.25" x .250" DOM will work great too with welded inserts that take 7/8" TRE's. Either way it is ok.
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Old 12-12-2004, 10:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berning
Solid steel is weaker than a thick walled DOM tube. I guess I really dont know how to explain it but, it is. If you doing steering links, build them with 1.5" .25" wall DOM. I guess if your really looking for beef, you could sleeve your tie rod with 1.75" .120 wall DOM. Thats a big link and you might have clearence issues depending on your setup though. My personal experence with this is my Currie steering setup, the tie rod is solid 1.25" steel and I bent it on the very first hard slam. Me and everyone else running the kit that has slammed down on their tierod hard bends it everytime. Pretty shitty for a $100 plus tie rod. I'm going to build a new one with 1.5" .25 wall with heims and I really dont see that link frowning after the first few times it kisses some rocks.

-Michael
So are you saying a 2" solid steel bar is weaker than 2"x.120 DOM tube?
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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And yes, 1.25" x .250" DOM will work great too with welded inserts that take 7/8" TRE's. Either way it is ok.
this is the main con of solid is you can't just throw some weld in inserts but have to drill and tap which is a pain if you don't have a lathe.. I know people who some how did it with a hand drill but I wouldnt want to have to do that!
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've got a solid tie rod that I got from goferit offroad. They don't make them anymore. The biggest problem was the big lefthand thread tap.
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berning
Solid steel is weaker than a thick walled DOM tube.

not necessarily true. assume two pieces of round stock made from the same material. the hollow piece will be less resistant to bending.
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Old 12-12-2004, 06:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recurve
So are you saying a 2" solid steel bar is weaker than 2"x.120 DOM tube?
He said THICK walled DOM. .120 wall isnt considered THICK.
1.25x.219 wall DOM OR 1.5x.344 will allow you to just tap it for 7/8" TRE
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It is High steer, so I am not super concerned about impacts. I was going to just buy one,, but I can't find anyone who will let me spend my money everyone wants to get back with me and I never hear a word.. RANT DONE

I have access to a lathe, and sourced the left hand tap..



I was thinking 1.250 thick solid rod with threaded ends. Hard to uderstand that solid is weaker than dom,,even heavy wall, but I do not have any stats or formulas to argue so..........
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Last edited by Rio_Grande; 12-12-2004 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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check this out http://mo-offroad.com/Tie%20rods.htm
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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thick walled DOM is NOT stronger than solid of the same quality steel.

anyone who thinks otherwise needs to turn on their brain and read this:
/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/235249-long-arm-mtl.html

(the only exception to this is when the extra weight is helping to bend it, in practicality, this applies to cranes, not tie-rods.)
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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All you guys saying tube is stronger I would love to hear an explanation of how tube is stronger then solid of the same outside diameter...

Also a good source of steering components is www.rockstomper.com can make it as beefy as you want at a good price
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Old 12-13-2004, 08:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...970#post272970

The bending stress in the beam (pipe) is given by the following:

where M(x) is the external moment as a function of x (same for both since loading conditions are the same), c is the distance from the neutral axis (will equal d/2 in this problem when finding the maximum bending stress) and I is the area moment of inertia (aka second moment of area) which is a function of the cross section geometry.

(If you look at the Euler beam bending formula, you will find the same dependence of deflection on moment of inertia, which is the key to this problem.)

The moment of inertia of the solid pipe:

The moment of inertia of the hollow pipe (same outer diameter, d, along with inner diameter of di):

Since the amount of bending is inversely proportional to the moment of inertia, the pipe with the lower moment of inertia will bend more. Looking at the equations you should see that the hollow pipe will bend more.

Last edited by Recurve; 12-13-2004 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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wow!!!
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recurve
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...970#post272970

The bending stress in the beam (pipe) is given by the following:

where M(x) is the external moment as a function of x (same for both since loading conditions are the same), c is the distance from the neutral axis (will equal d/2 in this problem when finding the maximum bending stress) and I is the area moment of inertia (aka second moment of area) which is a function of the cross section geometry.

(If you look at the Euler beam bending formula, you will find the same dependence of deflection on moment of inertia, which is the key to this problem.)

The moment of inertia of the solid pipe:

The moment of inertia of the hollow pipe (same outer diameter, d, along with inner diameter of di):

Since the amount of bending is inversely proportional to the moment of inertia, the pipe with the lower moment of inertia will bend more. Looking at the equations you should see that the hollow pipe will bend more.


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Old 12-14-2004, 03:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I run a 1.25" solid bar (mild steel) drag link. It was drilled/tapped on a lathe to accept chevy 1/2 ton tie rods. I didn't bother with the left hand tap. who cars, its only a minor pain to initially adjust it. They are threaded in far enough, that even if it managed to thread it's way all the way down on tie rod. The other side would still have 2" of thread in contact.

Haven't had any problems with it in 2 years. and honestly, I don't want to be in the rig if I am ever in a situation that causes it to bend.
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio_Grande
It is High steer, so I am not super concerned about impacts. I was going to just buy one,, but I can't find anyone who will let me spend my money everyone wants to get back with me and I never hear a word.. RANT DONE

I have access to a lathe, and sourced the left hand tap..



I was thinking 1.250 thick solid rod with threaded ends. Hard to uderstand that solid is weaker than dom,,even heavy wall, but I do not have any stats or formulas to argue so..........
You dont have to have an impact to bend a tie rod. You just need to have big tires and drive in the rocks. If you are putting pressure on the side of the tire, it can bend the tie rod too. So make it beefy anyway. Like I said, either solid or .250 DOM will be fine. If you are determined to spend money, give me your specs, and I will build it for you out of whatever you want.
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Old 12-14-2004, 05:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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buddies is 1.5" solid 7075 Aluminum. Where does it fit in this strength comparison?
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Old 12-14-2004, 05:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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buddies is 1.5" solid 7075 Aluminum. Where does it fit in this strength comparison?
Up there in the pretty dang strong catagory.
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Old 12-14-2004, 05:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Up there in the pretty dang strong catagory.
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Old 12-14-2004, 08:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I've got the inverted-T steering using the big GM stuff on my junk. I'm using the some thick ass DOM and directly tapped (left and right hand); I can't remember what it is, seems like 1 5/8" with 3/8" thickness.. my memory sucks. Here's a pic from when I first put it on, it's low and a rock dragger. I'm going full hydro, so this is only a short-term solution.



Anyway, the tube is fine, but the rod end is bent to shit. So the rod end is the weakest link. good bye.
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Old 12-14-2004, 08:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I run a 1.5" chunk of 4130 that is tapped RH and LH for UNF 3/4 - 16 - never ever had an issue - never will (except maybe killing a 3/4" rod end )



I am full hydro these days so the tab is left over from the assist and draglink days... Just too lazy to cut off a 1" thick tapped tab...
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