Traction Bar on SOA YJ-- Does it matter which side?? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

jbwrangler · 03-01-2005, 01:28 PM

Seems like a stupid question, but a pretty experienced wheeler/ owner of a local 4x4 shop said that mounting the traction bar (ladder type such as one from Sam's or MORE) on the driver side caused some wierd handling on and off road. I'm talking about the rear Traction bar.

To run mine on the passenger side I will have to reroute my exhaust.

Anybody running their traction bar on the driver side?

I'm SOA on 1.5 RE SOA springs and 37" MTRs.

blw1997 · 03-01-2005, 01:54 PM

i run mine on the driver side with no issues and 38.5" SX's

Clemsonkrawler · 03-01-2005, 01:59 PM

drivers side traction bar, dana 60 rear, soa, 37 mtrs... No problems.

Inferno · 03-01-2005, 02:02 PM

I run mine on the drivers side, before and after the sbc/th350/d300 swap.

It's kind of in the way of the exhaust now, but not much.

The only thing you notice with the SBC, is that in low range, when you put it in gear and hold the break, the entire suspension loads up on the side the bar is on.

So right now the passanger side front end pitches down a bit.. its kinda cool

Might just be the engine torque on the motormounts?

NE-RokToy · 03-01-2005, 02:53 PM

passanger side is prefered because it will help counter act engine torque but drivers side shouldnt really be an issue... you will just notice more jacking then if it was on the passanger side.

sjlplat · 03-01-2005, 02:55 PM

Center mounted - No binding, eliminates wheel hop and axle wrap.

Running XJ springs out back with a full width 14-bolt on 39.5's.

chris demartini · 03-01-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbwrangler

Seems like a stupid question, but a pretty experienced wheeler/ owner of a local 4x4 shop said that mounting the traction bar (ladder type such as one from Sam's or MORE) on the driver side caused some wierd handling on and off road. I'm talking about the rear Traction bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno

The only thing you notice with the SBC, is that in low range, when you put it in gear and hold the break, the entire suspension loads up on the side the bar is on.

It's called Anti-Squat guys. The Sam's/M.O.R.E. style traction bars have a high instant center placed far behind center of gravity, both of which cause the anti squat to be high enough to induce jacking. This will occur regarless of what side the bar is on. This is why 4-links are so popular.

Solve one problem, create another.....

rcurrier44 · 03-01-2005, 04:06 PM

sjlplat, what is that? I assume you built it. Not many people like the one link design and all but is that a hyd cyl with an adjustable bypass built in ???

OkLaHoMaYJ · 03-01-2005, 04:08 PM

Mine is on the driver side.

87JeepWrangler · 03-01-2005, 04:34 PM

sjlplat, i dont understand your traction bar. it looks like the red arrow points to a slip joint, which would completely negate the idea behind how that anti-wrap device works. however, the labia pink area looks like some kind of valving, as though that "slip joint" would act like more like a shock. please explain.

B.A.R.K · 03-01-2005, 05:12 PM

Very interesting sjlplat!

I had to run my Sams traction bar on the driverside due to my offset rear diff. My traction bar is only 1.5" off center and I have some real back anit squat - tourque over characteristics. If I could, I would mount it on the pass. side to counter act the torque over. Yes a 2.5L w/5:38s can cause torque over.

respectible heep · 03-01-2005, 06:32 PM

Driver's side due to exhaust. Broke the top axle tab welds 2 weeks ago at the Hammers. Just bought everything to make another and move it to the passenger side. D60s front and rear with IROK 39.5s.
Not totally happy with the first one.

About the 4-link..... Next major project

yager · 03-01-2005, 07:12 PM

Looks like adaption of a pull bar from the roundy-round sceen... I'm planning a similer with some rubber/polly busings with some preload adjustments...

I do like the hydro cylinder deal. seems like it might be easier to tune and maybe depending on ammounts or type of fluid used to offer some different dampening characteristics... Please post back with some more info..

But bassically its NOT directly affecitng AS.. And as for the na-sayers.....imho. with adiquate leaf packs some wrap (google: forward bite) can be a good thing...

good read on forward bite here http://stockcarracing.com/techarticles/59459/

quote from article.. “The torque absorber allows the rearend housing to wrap up and thus takes that instant shock away from the rear tires when a driver first jabs on the gas pedal,” says Wayne Lensing of Lefthander Chassis.

While they arnt dealing with a low psi tire that is also absorbing torque or terrain that changes by the foot. I still has some merits.. just my .02 based on my internet research... We can rediscover staggard shock placment tomarrow

Just happy to see other non-conformists out there

jbwrangler · 03-01-2005, 08:26 PM

Good info. I guess alot factors into the jacking/antisquat other than the location of the traction bar, such as spring stiffness, shocks, etc.

I think that I will just move my exhaust so I can put the TB on the passenger side, alot of my exhaust got trashed on my last trip anyway.

The center bar looks interesting. Nice job. I'd be interested to learn more about it.

JB

u-joint · 03-01-2005, 09:47 PM

Drivers side, RE 1.5 SOA leafs, 35 MT/R's. No problems so far.

fubar73cj5 · 03-01-2005, 10:23 PM

sjlplat's traction bar can also be seen here: /forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/326334-xj-rears-yj.html

The cylinder has 3/4" play in it. Hopefully he'll chime in and tell you the rest or check out the thread above. Pretty good idea and a little outside the box.

Also some more alternative traction bar info (not Sam's style) in this thread:/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/332171-cant-friggen-find.html

sjlplat · 03-01-2005, 10:38 PM

A little more info on my link:

The link was designed and built by Steve Lesher of Over the Top Customs. He uses a hydraulic cylinder and limits the slip to 3/4" to prevent binding and tilting of the diff at full droop. Since the cylinder rotates 360 degrees, it will not bind when flexing side to side. Granted, it will not completely eliminate axle wrap, but it does keep it under control.

Steve runs it under his Scrambler with a full-width 14B and 39.5's under 4" YJ springs. After seeing his bent spring packs prior to the traction link install, and knowing how hard he wheels it, I was sold on the design.

My rig runs the same full-width 14B on 39.5's, but I run stock XJ springs out back with an F150 leaf added.

The parts list consists of enough tubing to build the crossmember and diff hoop, 4 tabs, 2 heims, 2 link inserts, and a hydraulic cylinder.

BrettM · 03-01-2005, 10:45 PM

is the 3/4" travel unrestricted? or is there somehow some dampning too it? I have a cylinder lying around and I was thinking about doing this but with it almost full of oil and just a little air. the air would allow for a little cushion to it.

sjlplat · 03-01-2005, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

is the 3/4" travel unrestricted? or is there somehow some dampning too it? I have a cylinder lying around and I was thinking about doing this but with it almost full of oil and just a little air. the air would allow for a little cushion to it.

Yes, it is unrestricted. The fluid idea might work - Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and you've got the same thing I do.

G.C. Bandit · 03-02-2005, 09:38 AM

i have ran mine on the drivers side, no problems with it for over 3 years. But after the 350 i did notice when u really open it up, the drivers side will lift up a little. But its not built for the street so i really could care less, it works great for what i need it for!

currupt4130 · 03-02-2005, 11:52 AM

im about to build my traction bar and im trying to decide how to locate it. itll be on the drivers side, i have a yj and my exhaust is on the pass. side, but, what im thinking of doing is welding it to the pumpkin section. i have an 8.8 and since i cant post pics ill just refer to u-joints picture. i was thinking of placing the outer mounting tab on the edge of the pumkin that the drivers side tube goes in, and then setting the other mounting bracket in towards the pumpkin and using the rib to help locate it and strengthen it. any thoughts on this? i know its cast iron, but is there a good strong way to weld to it? im going to have my buddy whos a master welder do the welding so im not worried about the strength of his welds just the integrity of the surface. thanks

sjlplat · 03-02-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by currupt4130

i was thinking of placing the outer mounting tab on the edge of the pumkin that the drivers side tube goes in, and then setting the other mounting bracket in towards the pumpkin and using the rib to help locate it and strengthen it. any thoughts on this? i know its cast iron, but is there a good strong way to weld to it? im going to have my buddy whos a master welder do the welding so im not worried about the strength of his welds just the integrity of the surface. thanks

Mine has a gusset welded to the top of the diff. This is a question you're going to need to run by your buddy. Make sure he knows what he's doing when welding to that cast surface, otherwise you may wind up looking for a new housing.

jbwrangler · 03-02-2005, 02:21 PM

U-Joint, lokks like we have pretty much the same set up... RE SOA springs, 8.8, MORE traction bar.... You got any pics of the Cross member end of that traction bar? I'm debating on how to build mine.

fubar73cj5 · 03-02-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbwrangler

U-Joint, lokks like we have pretty much the same set up... RE SOA springs, 8.8, MORE traction bar.... You got any pics of the Cross member end of that traction bar? I'm debating on how to build mine.

Look at the links in post #16

Inferno · 03-02-2005, 04:17 PM

I bent my original bar (1.5" sch40, triangulated) at the end of my driveway right after I put the V8 in.. actually it was exactly at the same time as the D35 blew.

I built this one, and decided that I could try something new if I wanted.
It's a frame, with 2 bumpstops that the bar "floats" between. Its all welded to the flat skid.

In practice, at rideheight the bar sits against the top bumpstop, and i get a slight "thunk" if I get on the breaks fast, and then on the juice. Just enough to tell you it's there and working.

It's worked well so far, what i really want to do is get it on a ramp and then see how it acts when the suspension is all pretzled up.

edit: excuse the nasty welds.

03-01-2005, 01:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
jbwrangler Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Member # 27328 Location: Mississippi Posts: 15	Traction Bar on SOA YJ-- Does it matter which side?? Seems like a stupid question, but a pretty experienced wheeler/ owner of a local 4x4 shop said that mounting the traction bar (ladder type such as one from Sam's or MORE) on the driver side caused some wierd handling on and off road. I'm talking about the rear Traction bar. To run mine on the passenger side I will have to reroute my exhaust. Anybody running their traction bar on the driver side? I'm SOA on 1.5 RE SOA springs and 37" MTRs. __________________ 94 YJ Last edited by jbwrangler; 03-01-2005 at 01:30 PM.

03-01-2005, 01:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
Clemsonkrawler Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Member # 26940 Location: Grand Junction, CO Posts: 621	drivers side traction bar, dana 60 rear, soa, 37 mtrs... No problems. __________________ Hazardous Concepts 3 seater for sale.

03-01-2005, 02:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
NE-RokToy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 62 Location: Omaha NE Posts: 5,992	passanger side is prefered because it will help counter act engine torque but drivers side shouldnt really be an issue... you will just notice more jacking then if it was on the passanger side. __________________ Jeff Neves

03-01-2005, 02:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
sjlplat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Member # 35497 Location: Rio Rancho, NM Posts: 99	Center mounted - No binding, eliminates wheel hop and axle wrap. Running XJ springs out back with a full width 14-bolt on 39.5's. Last edited by sjlplat; 03-01-2005 at 02:56 PM.

03-01-2005, 04:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
rcurrier44 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Member # 15404 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 3,082	sjlplat, what is that? I assume you built it. Not many people like the one link design and all but is that a hyd cyl with an adjustable bypass built in ??? __________________ Life begins where the pavement ends!

03-01-2005, 01:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
blw1997 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Member # 28647 Location: Flower Mound, TX Posts: 108	i run mine on the driver side with no issues and 38.5" SX's

03-01-2005, 02:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Inferno Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 8274 Posts: 195	I run mine on the drivers side, before and after the sbc/th350/d300 swap. It's kind of in the way of the exhaust now, but not much. The only thing you notice with the SBC, is that in low range, when you put it in gear and hold the break, the entire suspension loads up on the side the bar is on. So right now the passanger side front end pitches down a bit.. its kinda cool Might just be the engine torque on the motormounts?

03-01-2005, 04:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
OkLaHoMaYJ Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17969 Location: Denver Posts: 2,043	Mine is on the driver side. __________________ 2012 F150 FX4 EcoBoost - Wanting a built LJ/JKUR

03-01-2005, 04:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
87JeepWrangler Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Member # 13959 Location: Pa Posts: 3,173	sjlplat, i dont understand your traction bar. it looks like the red arrow points to a slip joint, which would completely negate the idea behind how that anti-wrap device works. however, the labia pink area looks like some kind of valving, as though that "slip joint" would act like more like a shock. please explain. Attached Images __________________ rob [URL="http://www.tr-motorsports.com"]TR Motorsports #108[/URL]

03-01-2005, 05:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
B.A.R.K Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8540 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 3,340	Very interesting sjlplat! I had to run my Sams traction bar on the driverside due to my offset rear diff. My traction bar is only 1.5" off center and I have some real back anit squat - tourque over characteristics. If I could, I would mount it on the pass. side to counter act the torque over. Yes a 2.5L w/5:38s can cause torque over. __________________ 92YJ/2.5L/HD4:1D300/F&R D44/5:38/36 SX/99"WB Nothing is stronger than stupid...

03-01-2005, 06:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
respectible heep Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Member # 35369 Location: NC.... for now. Posts: 77	Driver's side due to exhaust. Broke the top axle tab welds 2 weeks ago at the Hammers. Just bought everything to make another and move it to the passenger side. D60s front and rear with IROK 39.5s. Not totally happy with the first one. About the 4-link..... Next major project __________________ 93 yj

03-01-2005, 07:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
yager Evil Twin Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10695 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,884	Looks like adaption of a pull bar from the roundy-round sceen... I'm planning a similer with some rubber/polly busings with some preload adjustments... I do like the hydro cylinder deal. seems like it might be easier to tune and maybe depending on ammounts or type of fluid used to offer some different dampening characteristics... Please post back with some more info.. But bassically its NOT directly affecitng AS.. And as for the na-sayers.....imho. with adiquate leaf packs some wrap (google: forward bite) can be a good thing... good read on forward bite here http://stockcarracing.com/techarticles/59459/ quote from article.. “The torque absorber allows the rearend housing to wrap up and thus takes that instant shock away from the rear tires when a driver first jabs on the gas pedal,” says Wayne Lensing of Lefthander Chassis. While they arnt dealing with a low psi tire that is also absorbing torque or terrain that changes by the foot. I still has some merits.. just my .02 based on my internet research... We can rediscover staggard shock placment tomarrow Just happy to see other non-conformists out there __________________ Mike Yager - Jeep TJ Build Up - Ecotec, Toy axles etc.. Ecotec - Technical Info E450 Ambulance VRAY (YAger RV) VRAY 2006 E450 - Ambulance Cummins Diesel Swap

03-01-2005, 08:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
jbwrangler Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Member # 27328 Location: Mississippi Posts: 15	Good info. I guess alot factors into the jacking/antisquat other than the location of the traction bar, such as spring stiffness, shocks, etc. I think that I will just move my exhaust so I can put the TB on the passenger side, alot of my exhaust got trashed on my last trip anyway. The center bar looks interesting. Nice job. I'd be interested to learn more about it. JB __________________ 94 YJ

03-01-2005, 09:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
u-joint Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 8093 Location: Mostly US,but often out of the country Posts: 235	Drivers side, RE 1.5 SOA leafs, 35 MT/R's. No problems so far. __________________ Just your usual stuff.

03-01-2005, 10:23 PM	#16 (permalink)
fubar73cj5 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Member # 31688 Location: Puyallup, WA Posts: 629	sjlplat's traction bar can also be seen here: /forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/326334-xj-rears-yj.html The cylinder has 3/4" play in it. Hopefully he'll chime in and tell you the rest or check out the thread above. Pretty good idea and a little outside the box. Also some more alternative traction bar info (not Sam's style) in this thread:/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/332171-cant-friggen-find.html Last edited by fubar73cj5; 03-01-2005 at 10:25 PM.

03-01-2005, 10:38 PM	#17 (permalink)
sjlplat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Member # 35497 Location: Rio Rancho, NM Posts: 99	A little more info on my link: The link was designed and built by Steve Lesher of Over the Top Customs. He uses a hydraulic cylinder and limits the slip to 3/4" to prevent binding and tilting of the diff at full droop. Since the cylinder rotates 360 degrees, it will not bind when flexing side to side. Granted, it will not completely eliminate axle wrap, but it does keep it under control. Steve runs it under his Scrambler with a full-width 14B and 39.5's under 4" YJ springs. After seeing his bent spring packs prior to the traction link install, and knowing how hard he wheels it, I was sold on the design. My rig runs the same full-width 14B on 39.5's, but I run stock XJ springs out back with an F150 leaf added. The parts list consists of enough tubing to build the crossmember and diff hoop, 4 tabs, 2 heims, 2 link inserts, and a hydraulic cylinder.

03-01-2005, 10:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
BrettM Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 11998 Location: Michifornia Posts: 4,025	is the 3/4" travel unrestricted? or is there somehow some dampning too it? I have a cylinder lying around and I was thinking about doing this but with it almost full of oil and just a little air. the air would allow for a little cushion to it. __________________ awshifting.com awshifting@gmail.com

03-02-2005, 09:38 AM	#20 (permalink)
G.C. Bandit Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3237 Location: PLACERVILLE, CA Posts: 2,678	i have ran mine on the drivers side, no problems with it for over 3 years. But after the 350 i did notice when u really open it up, the drivers side will lift up a little. But its not built for the street so i really could care less, it works great for what i need it for! __________________ TJ/Wrangler MUTT... Dana 80 37 Spline, Discs :) Bling HP60 Dendenbears,Chromos/Longfields FULL HYDRO 47LTB's Locked with C&R BreadLocks 350TBI Sm465 203-205 Gen2 Doubler [SIZE="5"][B][COLOR="Blue"]ROCKZOMBIES4X4.com[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE] R.I.P. Dave "Kyle" That was one hell of a ride, I will never forget!

03-02-2005, 11:52 AM	#21 (permalink)
currupt4130 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Member # 39371 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 1,928	im about to build my traction bar and im trying to decide how to locate it. itll be on the drivers side, i have a yj and my exhaust is on the pass. side, but, what im thinking of doing is welding it to the pumpkin section. i have an 8.8 and since i cant post pics ill just refer to u-joints picture. i was thinking of placing the outer mounting tab on the edge of the pumkin that the drivers side tube goes in, and then setting the other mounting bracket in towards the pumpkin and using the rib to help locate it and strengthen it. any thoughts on this? i know its cast iron, but is there a good strong way to weld to it? im going to have my buddy whos a master welder do the welding so im not worried about the strength of his welds just the integrity of the surface. thanks __________________ The mountains are calling and I must go. -John Muir Last edited by currupt4130; 03-02-2005 at 11:54 AM.

03-02-2005, 02:21 PM	#23 (permalink)
jbwrangler Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Member # 27328 Location: Mississippi Posts: 15	U-Joint, lokks like we have pretty much the same set up... RE SOA springs, 8.8, MORE traction bar.... You got any pics of the Cross member end of that traction bar? I'm debating on how to build mine. __________________ 94 YJ

03-02-2005, 04:17 PM	#25 (permalink)
Inferno Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 8274 Posts: 195	I bent my original bar (1.5" sch40, triangulated) at the end of my driveway right after I put the V8 in.. actually it was exactly at the same time as the D35 blew. I built this one, and decided that I could try something new if I wanted. It's a frame, with 2 bumpstops that the bar "floats" between. Its all welded to the flat skid. In practice, at rideheight the bar sits against the top bumpstop, and i get a slight "thunk" if I get on the breaks fast, and then on the juice. Just enough to tell you it's there and working. It's worked well so far, what i really want to do is get it on a ramp and then see how it acts when the suspension is all pretzled up. edit: excuse the nasty welds. Last edited by Inferno; 03-02-2005 at 04:20 PM.

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