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Old 03-01-2005, 04:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Some good info and good tips for the gang going bigger :)

Some good info and good tips for the gang going bigger I hope this helps and provide some helpful pointers, tips, etc for anyone going in the same direction with their build.


My YJ build:





Some write-ups that I hope will help on your build-ups:

14 bolt Detroit install at home

Rear extended and 3/4 eliptical

Tranny work : AX 15 internal slave to external slave

Home built spring thread

Paint your Jeep or rig at home in a weekend

One Ton Brake Upgrade - Dodge RAM MC2500/3500


TJ front hood and grill on a YJ\CJ:

Limiting axle wrap idea for less than $10

Bedliner herculiner

Rebar ring install on wheels

Moving the gas tank up:

Newbie built front 60

Shaving a 14 bolt, or do a Chevy 13 bolt...







this is the beauty I started with:



The actual config is:

-Dana 60 Ford HP 79 F250, high steer, ARB, 5.13
-Chevy 14 bolt (70's), Cab and chassis, Detroit, 5.13
-SOA with home brewed spring packs
-Atlas t-case 4:1 - Heavy duty upgraded yokes, etc
-Wheels - H1 double beadlocks 16.5
-Tires - Irok 39.5
-OBA home-brewed with york compressor, serpentine, truck air tank
-full 6pt cage, herc interior, TJ front clip, garage olive drab rattle can paint
-B-rad brewed anti-wrap bar and stinger yo!
-a bunch more stuff I am forgetting to mention

I am putting this thread together, to help others and newbies, like myself, and trying to centralize some info on how to get your rig built, some tips on locating the stuff you will need, what to do and what not to do. I will post more info and links to past projects and some write-ups I did in the past on the board that may help people out. I am getting PM's and people asking me how to do some stuff, so will try to get everything on this thread, and\or links to other longer threads. Hope this will save you some time and head scratching!

Gui


---<<< >>>>----

Just finishing up some stuff on the YTJ, and it has been a cool winter project. Thanks everyone for all the feedback, and all the info on the board! In a nutshell, build that started as a Wrangler YJ Renegade edition (argh) and went from RE SUA 4.5 and rear Dana 44, on 35's to SOA with bastard home brewed springs (Waggy, XJ, YJ), stretched wheelbase, full width Ford HP front, Chevy 14 bolt rear, detroit install at home (did a full write up on the General forum with pics), and a bunch of other misc stuff.

Some tips to help those as far as locating parts, etc. DISCLAIMER Not trying to pimp vendors, etc, just hoping to save people a lot of head scratching and a lot of research for people going in the same direction, since some parts were hard to locate or figure out. I recommend picking vendors you like to work with and support PBB vendors, they are well known and knowledgeable and will steer you in the right direction. In teh event I could not find some parts from them, some even referred me to places I could find what I was looking for quick, thanks again!

Longer Brake lines: - speedwaymotors.com - $15 for 48" stainless steel braided hoses are hard to beat. Got fittings as well (about $2 a pop). they have great stuff for more fabrication as well, at very good prices.

Longer front shock tower - Ford Truck (80's) Shock tower - Only $12 a pop from the dealer part number E5TZ-18183A

Front Dana 44 spindles - Mine where fubarred, and I had some spindles a bit harder to find for the Ford 44. Some dana 44 spindles have 5 holes and some have 6 holes. I bought a set from PartsMike, excellent service and a couple days turnaround

Front Dana 60 spindles on the new axle - I neded up biting thebullet and going with new ones from Doug (HighHonda), very fast service

14 bolt u-bolt plate - Blue Torch, I think in the $40 range do not remember. Great quality compared to some I got before from other vendor (holes were not aligned).

Spring perches - Great Lake offroad - I think I paid in the $30-40 range. Excellent quality, but you will need to drill holes and trim the tube diameter cut to make them fit on a 14 bolt. No biggie, but took some time to get them in. Not having holes also is a good option, since it lets you offset the hole if you are looking for more wheelbase, etc.

Springs - I home brewed bastard springs (mixed waggy FR and R, YJ's, XJ's, etc) based on Waggy fronts, and XJ's for the rear. Waggy fronts all around will give you about 4 inches of wheelbase gain. XJ's will net about 6-8 inches depending of perch offseting in the rear. U-bolts will depend on what you are going to run, the 14 bolt ones are bigger diameter, and were harder to find. Some vendors do custom u-bolts, I bought a set, and got other set custom fabbed. Expect to spend around $60 for new custom bent u-bolts. You can also check 4 wheel shops and check what they have removed from other rigs and luck out for rear mounts if you go XJ, Blue Torch has a sweet setup ready to go, about $300 or you can build your stuff, or weldd to the rear bumper like in my setup. I still need to remove and setup new mount to improve the rear angle, but it works good for the time being.

Last edited by geberhard; 01-18-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 03-01-2005, 04:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Steering - crossover or high steer can be done, flat tops are a nice to must have.


On the previous front 44: Used ExtremeGear arm crossover on the 44. On the 60, I am running dedenbear knuckles with Parts Mike arms, very nice and beef setup. Basic crossover arm on a 44 will run about $100. Add to that tie rod and ends, reaming pitman arm if needed (Doug thanks again ), or buying a ready pitman arm for your needs.

On the Dana 60 - PartsMike springless arms, and high steer with TRE's from Larry at Mad4wd.com

Gears and Detroit - Bought stuff from DC (http://www.dc4wd.com/) since some vendors were backed up for thick 5.13's last year. Great service, adn fast shippment, and very good price. Detroit for 14 bolt about $350. Great service, and fast shipping. Detroit can be installed easy at home. For the new fornt 60 got the parts from PORC, and highly recomend them, great deals and excellent service.

Tires and wheels - plenty out there, look for used or new, budget at least $500 for a decent set of used, more for new. I am running H1 hummer double beadlocks with Dean recenters, killer setup.

Shocks - Pretty much all options across the border, PORC has a great deal for 4 shocks (about $120 any length).

Misc stuff - as with any setup, you will need some fabrication skills, no matter how basic. If you have no clue what you are doing, research before proceeding. If you do not have the time, space, or skills, there are great fabricators that can help you or steer in the right direction. (I had to do head scrathing, research, ask people on the board, ask for help when needed, etc)

Last edited by geberhard; 04-03-2007 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 03-01-2005, 04:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The monkey suit makes my ass look fat


Axles - Plenty of options, Junkyard, or from people on the board. If you can luck out and find some ready to go, and save time, install cost for gears, etc, that may be a good option. Bear in mind to budget extra $$ for axles, since they may be in bad shape once you start tearing them apart. I spent a lot of time to get the front in the shape I wanted, new bearings, new seals, replace\fix hubs, spindles, etc. For dana 44's HP Ford expect to pay in the $200-400 range in decent shape. Dana 60's, hmmm $$$ $600-1400 depending on shape. Expect to pay more for most desired and rare years, 78-79 which had kingpins, and will be the easiest full width install on a YJ due to pumpkin positioning. 14 bolts are pretty cheap and run in the $100-300 in decent shape. Look for sets with 4.10's to save some initial buck and upgrade to lower gears later as $$ allows. Pay attention to caster and pinion angle

Anti-wrap. Many options, fab a ladder, trac bar, bambar, etc. Some ready kits in the market from MORE, Sam's etc in the $300 if you do not want to fab. Can be built for less than $100.

Driveshafts - Plenty of options out there. You can luck out and find Chevy CV drivellines that almost bolt on or can be easily resized (i.e. move front Chevy to rear, etc). Definitely go for a CV setup. 14 bolts run 1350 joints, and my front 44 has 1350, so only one spare joint needed on the trail. 1410's would be sweet, but start adding up. Another option is using crossjoint u-joints - 1310-1350 run about $30, and several people here have run them without problems.
Jesse makes nice unbreakable stuff (High Angle Driveline), and that is my next step when I save more $$ and break my stuff Front stock YJ shaft may be able to get you around without breaking for a while, but is a weak foundation. Cost to resize shafts run about $40 and up with balancing. Also, run a SYE kit, or a t case setup that eliminates the yoke.

Shackle reversal - pretty optional, and can be bought or home built. Looking back I could have built something, but the design I got works really well. They run about $150 and up, and could be home brewed for less than $50. I am debating running buggy on the front, so who knows

Time - your time is freaking valuable, os do not forget about that. Learn from others and hear what other people have to say will save you a bunch of time and trial error. Budget yourself and allow for more time, since most likely the unexpected can happen Setup a tentative goal schedule, setup a realistic budget, do a parts list, etc. The important thing is to manage your time, so you do not get frustrated, and you do not waste time on stuff that will not add value. Most of all, do not cut corners, and pay attention to detail specially when dealing with brakes and other stuff that could affect other people Test the rig to ensure it is safe if you are plan to drive it in public roads, and even off-roading. Also, be safe when you work on your rig, decent jackstands, extra backup support (i.e. hi-lifts), blocks, etc. Use eye protection, use gloves, and make your work area workable. It can look like a mess to others as long as you are comfortable and safe around it.

The rig is getting there, pretty much all home brewed and pieced together. Works well, and getting closer to what I wanted. I can not wait to play harder with it, and hopefully break very little stuff. I highly recommend a project like this, you learn a lot about your rig, gain new skills, and have fun while you are at it


Some pics testing it this weekend:






*bling* granade shifters - still need to do some work and add to the cage.



next steps for the never ending project ;D

- anti-wrap or traction bar of some kind for rear (done 01/06)
- redo current engine driven OBA (done with York compressor - 08/05)
- gas tank - move up, in cab, fuel cell, etc ?
- high steer
- finish front ARB - install separate air compressor and switch
-upgrade engine (Chevy 350\Vortec, Ford 5.0, or Vette), tranny(465, 420 or?), t case (currently 231 with 4:1)

Last edited by geberhard; 06-08-2006 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 03-01-2005, 04:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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detroit locker easy install at home:

click here for link for Detroit install

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Old 03-01-2005, 04:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Scrtached project, but a possible project to try out in the future again:

link rear extended and 1/4 eliptical
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Old 03-01-2005, 04:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Tranny work : AX 15 internal slave to external slave
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Old 03-01-2005, 04:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Springs thread

The top are Grand Wagonner 80's (waggy) rears (very looong), then a Cherokee (XJ), then Waggy front, then Wrangler (YJ).



the final product for the front, mixed Grand Waggy front, and YJ. Gained two inches of wheelbase due to the offset centerpin. YJ spring on the bottom for comparison.



I actually cut the long rear Grand Waggy to use as secondary "main" leafs, over and they worked great, pseudo military style. (see close up pic below on the limiting wrap idea)


Bedliner herculiner


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Old 03-01-2005, 04:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Paint your rig at home in a weekend



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Old 03-01-2005, 04:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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TJ front hood and grill on a YJ\CJ:


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Old 03-02-2005, 07:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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nice write up and great pics, thanks for the effort you put into it, as well as the jeep! hopefully it will answer some general questions for future wheelers.
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Old 03-02-2005, 09:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks,

That is the ideia, to help people out while going through something similar. The swap seeemed much harder to do before I got started, so this may help demistify that is not that hard, but it does take work, planning and figuring things out. Each project is different, but has pretty much the same principles. I will post more info as I get more things done, including an estimated budget, etc.

I recommend for anyone upgrading their rig to plan ahead, and if you already know what you ultimately want to do wheeling wise, and to your rig, to skip a lot of the incremental stuff when possible. I think a swap to harder to brake truck parts ends up less costly than a mid range swap (i.e. put a rear Dana 44, get wheel tires, regear axles, change suspension with bolt on stuff, etc etc).

Gui
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Old 03-02-2005, 07:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Cut those damn quarters already or you'll cut your tires.
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Old 03-02-2005, 08:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Nice thread build up!
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Doug!


Whattup man!? Hey, we gotta get in touch, how are things? Yep, most of the rear is already sawzalled, I think gthe bump stop idea you gave me will make it so the tires will not hit that bad. BTW, not sure if you checked the thread from HybridPOS about the tractor traction bars for anti-wrap, what do ya think? I could also make the top of the mount over the u-bolt plate dual function as a bump stop. Whatcha think?

Here is the link:

/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/332171-cant-friggen-find.html

pic:


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Old 03-03-2005, 03:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Unfortunatly, I have still seen a lot of spring wrap/wheel hop with that type of setup. It will also not help to reduce bent springs either. The problem is that it still uses the springs as a part of the "anti-wrap bar" and that is the weak point due to the bending of the springs (which is what they are suppose to do). That system helps... but does not get rid of bent springs and wheel hop/spring wrap.
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Old 03-03-2005, 03:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geberhard
Longer front shock tower - Ford Truck (80's) Shock tower - Only $12 a pop from the dealer part number E5TZ-18183A
Do you have any close up pics of these mounted?

I am about to order new shocks & the longer the better
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Old 03-03-2005, 04:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yep, that is one of the questions, I think it could eliminate axle wrap, not sure if wheel hop and spring bending. I believe spring bending could be avoided, unless you are using a single main only (in my case I have two main springs together to prevent that).

Hybrid POS is testing them out, and there where some other rigs running this old school setup with no problems. Per the other thread, thi sis the setup Chris Durham was running.


HotWheels, here are pics from the Ford shock mounts. I did not use all the height as you can see in the pics, sicne my shocks are a bit short at 33" open, but you can move it up if you have even longer shocks a couple inches.



installed:



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Old 03-04-2005, 04:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hey Gui, I've seen that thread and didn't read too much. Your fab work is greating much better, it looks great.
There is a problem though with the anti-wrap arm as stated above. For this to work you need the link to be the same length as the distance between the spring pin and the front hanger, otherwise the spring and link are swinging different radii. The link will not give but the spring will try to hyper-arc turning the spring into a "S" shape.
That's only an uneducated observation as for anti-wrap bars though.
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Old 03-04-2005, 04:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Doug,

Thanks! How are ya? Hey, are you going to be around this weekend?

Gui
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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yup
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Old 03-10-2005, 03:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Limiting axle wrap idea for less than $10


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Old 03-10-2005, 05:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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great great thread!!
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpinNRollin
Unfortunatly, I have still seen a lot of spring wrap/wheel hop with that type of setup. It will also not help to reduce bent springs either.
I would think that setup would actually contribute more to bent springs. As the springs compress the distance needs to get longer from the fixed hanger to the axle. With that solid bar on top of it how is the axle supposed to move back some to compensate for the additional cord length in the spring?

Users of the typical traction bars use a shackle at the front end for this very reason.
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:07 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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great great thread!!
BSpencer,

Thanks, I think it will help the gang who is moving in this direction and save some time and head scratching. I think it i s not a one size fits all but pretty close. I think years back I would look into a big rig and think, wow, I wish I could build something like that, and after going through it, it does not look as hard as it seems. Planning, saving $ to buy parts, reading ideas from the board and talking with people that have gone through the ordeal really helped. Looking back, I know I could have saved some time and could have done some things a bit different, but overall I am happy with the way things turned out

Gui
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't see that cable doing anything good
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