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Old 06-24-2005, 02:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Need help troubleshooting overheating 95 4.0L in XJ

The darn XJ started to over heat yesterday afternoon. About 2 months ago, I replaced the water pump and a couple other misc. engine parts. The old pump was leaking around the seal and I just decided to replace it once I had it off. Anyway, its been fine ever since yesterday. I checked my fluid, not lower than normal, so I added some to be sure. No change. Checked oil and its still good (not burned up or low) and the same for the AT fluid. Was about a quart low, no biggie, added to top it off, but still no change (thought maybe the hot fluid in the radiator may keep the water hot????) I'm no mechanic, just a fabricator, so I tried everything. The thermostat was new about a year ago, so I didn't change it with the water pump.

It doesn't drive any different, sound any different than before, but now its just overheating and seems as if its getting worse.


Any ideas??? I'm taking it into the shop Monday, but if its something simple we can figure out, maybe it'll save me a few $$$.

it runs fine at idle, but most anything above that it starts to overheat, usually I notice it about 1500-1700 rpm

HELP
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Old 06-24-2005, 07:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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BTW, its a 4.0, not a 258 that is overheating.
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Old 06-24-2005, 07:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You might have to have your radiator flushed. Another thing is that it is hard to get the air out of the cooling system when you have drained it and have refilled it. To make shore you have all the air out you would have to jack the back end up as far as you can and let it run and see if you can get any air to come out. Also make shore your clutch fan is up to par. Debris in the cooling fins can also mess with the cooling system. If all else fails you might have to go with a high flow water neck. I actually opened mine up myself with a die grinder and a porting stone. A 3 core radiator is also a must. You would have one if your XJ came with AC.

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Old 06-25-2005, 10:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What kind of shape are the hoses in? Does it overheat when it idles, in town, on the road?
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Old 06-25-2005, 11:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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yea.it could be the hose on the suction side of the pump going flat at higher rpm's
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Old 06-25-2005, 03:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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How many miles on your Jeep? Helps determine if the radiator needs to be replaced or not.

When it is overheating what is the temperature of the upper and lower radiator hoses? Can you put your hand on the lower without burning it? I use a temp gun to see what the surface temperature is across the radiator, and both hoses. Shoot sometimes the vehicle is not overheating it is just a bad gauge; doubtfull though. If both hoses are hot it is probably a bad radiator. As said above make sure it is getting plenty of air flow. That the fan clutch is working properly. Does that have an A/C fan that pulls through the radiator? If so turn on the A/C and see if it cools down. You should replace the thermostat no matter what as you have already overheated and it could be damaged. Cheap insurance for under $20.

There are times a radiator will look clean as can be inside, yet they are plugged enough to cause overheating. Really common on Jap cars.
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Old 06-25-2005, 05:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Do you have the closed or open cooling system ?

If it is the closed system, your pressure bottle/cap could be leaking....common problem with this system. Air is entering the system at the source of the leak. The cap is notorious for leaking.

If it is open system, the likely culprit is trapped air in the system IF the thermostat and lower hose are doing their jobs.

Another possibiliiy is restriction of airflow thru the radiator itself.......make sure fins are unclogged by debris and are relatively straight.....they make a comb you can buy for this purpose....

After you have verified these, then check fan clutch.......this is a relatively easy and cheap item to replace just like the thermostat.......
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Old 06-25-2005, 05:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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it only overheats when running at about 1700 rpm or more. not at idle.

the hoses are in good shape, so is the rest of the other cooling components, as far as I know. This was a new radiator about 2 years ago, so it should be ok, i guess. Both fans seem to be working and yes, the radiator is a 3 core that came with the AC units. There are about 140K miles on the Jeep.
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Old 06-25-2005, 05:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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last night I put a 180 thermostat in instead of the 195 it had in there. Today I drove it about 15 miles to work and it didn't get above about 205 (according to the gauge), but that was at 5 am when it def. was not HOT outside like it was yesterday afternoon. Its not running "hot" anymore, but I still think its not quite right. I"ve yet to run it at mid day when the temp outside is 90+ degrees like when it overheated.
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Old 06-25-2005, 09:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Normal operating temps on a 4.0 is around 200 to 210 in a XJ. If you noticed or not the factory thermostat had a steam vent in it. That is what the little hole with the ball is. When replacing a thermostat you need to drill a 1/8" hole in the flat plate part at the bottom right below the opening a about a 1/4" down. The only thing I can think of is that you have an air restriction in the front of the radiator. I know you said you replaced the radiator but if the AC condenser "fins" are plugged up with bugs and debris it will heat up when driven. I had that problem too and when I pulled the radiator and sprayed out the core fins on the radiator and the condenser with a regular garden hose sprayer it cured the problem. You also need that steam vent is the thermostat too.
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Old 06-26-2005, 10:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
it only overheats when running at about 1700 rpm or more. not at idle.
Pull and check the lower hose.
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Old 06-26-2005, 01:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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well, I've spent that last couple of hours working on the XJ. I'm not leaking any fluid anywhere either. I pulled the lower hose when I replaced the water pump about 2 months ago and I remember it being good.

Found no real solution. Came home from work toay around 1:30 and it was running up around 230 or so running at 60 mph. Thats with a new 180 thermostat. All hoses are running about 190-200F when I checked with a kitchen thermometer and the engine running at about 230, according to the gauge.

Turned AC on and there was no real change. Turned heat on and no noticable change. At idle, its ok, its just when it revvs up around 2K rpm that I notice it the most. More rpms = faster increase in engine temp.

Next thing to check? Maybe replace the rad. cap and the temp. sending unit (cheapest couple things) and then go from there???



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Old 06-26-2005, 01:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Normal operating temps on a 4.0 is around 200 to 210 in a XJ. If you noticed or not the factory thermostat had a steam vent in it. That is what the little hole with the ball is. When replacing a thermostat you need to drill a 1/8" hole in the flat plate part at the bottom right below the opening a about a 1/4" down. The only thing I can think of is that you have an air restriction in the front of the radiator. I know you said you replaced the radiator but if the AC condenser "fins" are plugged up with bugs and debris it will heat up when driven. I had that problem too and when I pulled the radiator and sprayed out the core fins on the radiator and the condenser with a regular garden hose sprayer it cured the problem. You also need that steam vent is the thermostat too.

got any pics???

I understand, but I'm a "show me" not "tell me" type
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Old 06-26-2005, 06:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Sounds like crap in the radiator. I had mine taken apart and rodded out, couldn't believe how much crud had accumulated in it. Same symptoms, ran cooler at lower RPM's but got hot quick once on the highway.

It cost me $70 to the the radiator rodded out (they remove the tanks and push a specially shaped metal rod through the individual water passages). The end result was a couple handfulls of rusty calcium like crud. Nasty.
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Old 06-26-2005, 09:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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got any pics???

I understand, but I'm a "show me" not "tell me" type
sorry no pics, I don't even have a old thermostat to show you with.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:07 AM   #16 (permalink)
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well, then my next guess is getting the rad. checked. boy is that gonna be a pain.

I'm gonna swap out the cap and sending unit first cause its easier and cheaper, to see if it helps.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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BTW, thanks for all the help
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I pulled the lower hose when I replaced the water pump about 2 months ago and I remember it being good.
Did it still have the spring in it?
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:16 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I guess it did, but I don't recall about the spring in the lower hose.
I checked it when revving the engine and at idle and it retains its shape, from what I can tell.


ok, coolant temp. maxed out the 220F kitchen thermometer, so I know coolant in the radiator is getting to at least 220 and then some, cuase it rose very quickly, from 140 up once I revved the engine (between 2and 3K rpms for a period of about 30 seconds. Once I let off to idle, the coolant spewed out the fill cap like when it overheats. Now I know I gotta put more fluid in.

Maybe I don't have enough fluid in there? I know someone somewhere said something about getting the air out of the system, but I think it was for an open system?? how do I tell what system I have?

Rob------------> off to the parts store for a cap and sending unit.
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Old 06-27-2005, 04:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You have the open system, a tech at a dealership is the one who told me about jacking the rear of the rig up to get all the air out in a quik amount of time. I thought it was crazy too but it works.
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:26 AM   #21 (permalink)
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well, I tried that, but still overheating. I'm hoping its the timing and can be easily adjusted and fixed (at the shop right now). Next, I'm hoping I can just rod the radiator, but talking to the shop, they said it was a brand new unit when they installed it a few years ago (trustworthy friend owns the shop). Hes gonna do a pressure test of the system and hopefully eliminate a cracked head or blown gasket. He also said the mechanical clutch should lock up better than it is, so maybe thats the problem. Anyway, hes checking it out while I'm at class. I'll know more in an hour or so.


Rob
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Update Please

Im having the same type of overheating in my YJ 258, it starts to overheat while freeway driving.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:02 AM   #23 (permalink)
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air pockets are common in the closed system. Take your temp sending unit out of the block (drivers rear-near the valve cover)-jack the rear up as high as you can and fill it from the upper radiator hose. Lots of times-air traps around the thermostat and prevents it from opening. If you are installing a new thermostat-drill a small (1/16") hole in the side to help it "burp" the system. I have seen this many times. At least you will know its purged-then go from there.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I have had very simular issues, changed the rad (rad cap style), took out the T-stat, pulled the bottle system out,... all to find a small leak on the back of the head on the passenger side. I have not fixed the head gaskett yet, but its ok as long as I keep the secondary fan running constantly. I also added in hood vents, some people lift the hood slightly at the rear to allow the hot air to escape
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