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Old 04-05-2002, 06:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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TOTW: Ford 302 engine swaps

Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

The subject for the week is swapping in the Ford 5.0 engine. This is an awesome powerplant, with tons of possibilities. Arguably a better swap than a SBC. But we're not going to argue that here, we're going to talk about the ins and outs of dropping a 5.0 in your junk.

Some suggested points of discussion:
- Wiring
- Tranny choices (AOD/C4C6/NP435/??)
- Mounts
- Cooling
- Hop ups
- What about using a 351W block with Mustang heads & SEFI?
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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DON'T USE ADVANCE ADAPTER ENG MOUNTS!!!!!!!!!

AND YES I AM YELLING!!
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by high5
DON'T USE ADVANCE ADAPTER ENG MOUNTS!!!!!!!!!
why?
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Old 04-05-2002, 02:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Cool, hopefully this TOTW will gimme some good info. When I get back from Africa in a few weeks, I'm gonna start my 5.0 swap. Trying to be smart & do all my homework before I start.

Speaking of hopups, I'm dropping in a mild Trickflow cam while the motor's out & of course, will run a K&N filter & Flowmasters to open up her breathing a bit. When the money's straight again, after the swap, I'd love a set of GT40 heads & intake....
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Old 04-05-2002, 03:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have heard that the old v8 explorers with the Firestone tires came with GT40 heads. Doesn't make much sense--is this true? If so, should be a fairly easy find in the junkyards. I too am considering this motor. I think the 4.6 would make a good swap too. Should be a lot lighter since they are all aluminum.

This is quite a ways down the road for me, since I am still working on axles. I'd still like to see what you guys think though.
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Old 04-05-2002, 03:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The Explorer heads are GT-40P and require a slightly different header due to the angle on the plugs. MAC makes the header, Ford Motorsports as well. You can get a complete set of built heads with 1.94 intake/1.60 exhaust from Central Coast Mustang for about $650. I'm running them on my 'stang. Also the Explorer intake is very close to a Cobra intake in design and airflow.
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Old 04-05-2002, 05:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have heard some good things about the GT40P heads and if I could get some from a yard in good shape I'd be tempted to give them a shot. But for $650 for new ones I'd almost be willing to shell out the extra dough for a set of really trick heads like Edelbrock or Trick Flow

By the way I'm sure none of this is needed for crawling, it is just part of my freakish desire to get the most out of a 5.0
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan-H


why?
they are known to break the bolt that mount the mount to the block. i have heard of several people with this problem and when i used to run a 351w i had the same problem too. infact i ended up breaking one of the threaded bungs from the side of the blok as a result of them breaking so many times.
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Wiring

This is a MUST for anyone thinking of swapping in a Ford EFI 5.0L.
Buy the Probst pamphlet "Multiport EFI Engine Management Harness" by calling Ford's Tech 'Hot Line' 810-468-1356 for only $5.

Then buy or barrow from the lybrary the Probst book and read it, a lot! "Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control : All Ford/Lincoln-Mercury Cars and Light Trucks 1988 to 1993" by Charles O. Probst. Only 28 dollars. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...229428-7720961

Edit -> Summitracing was kind enough to to ahve the Probst 26 page Pamphlet scanned into a .pdf Save this one, and start here --> http://static.summitracing.com/globa...m12071f302.pdf

Or a great second option and worth it's wieght in gold is the large and well documented Helms wire manual. $18.50 http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.a...PFM7WQBB7G44DD

And Mitchell wiring manual, from local library or Auto store.
Do not use the Haynes and Chilton books.
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wiring

Go to wiring page for a key to the below picture.

All you need to hook up between engine and vehicle:

Green plug (B) wires hook to:
W/R not used
Gr/Y Run only
Pu A-C on switch
Dk G/Y Inertia switch (Then to Fuel pump positive)
Pk/O Speed sensor negative (Splice this joint to ground, not Needed)
G/Blk Speed sensor positive
Pk/G Check Engine Light (ground side, need power from other side of light)

Brown Plug (Q) wires hooked to: (Hint, get the Mustang side of the Brown plug and splice into those wires)
T/Y Tack
W/Pk to Crank only
R/G to Crank and Run
R/LB to Crank only
Pu/Pk to H2O temp gauge
G/Pu Not used for Auto (Neutral switch)
Pu/Y Not used for Auto (Neutral switch)

1992 Mustang wiring harness, very close to the 88-93 Mustang harness.

Edit -> Moved Picture, after trying to reduce size.

Edit:
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Tranny choices

Running a C4 behind a 5.0L

You want a 70's C4 and a 5.0L FlexPlate. Then you'll need a torque converter with the bolt holes 11.4" apart. Do note early to mid 70's C4's had a Torque converter and flex plate with 10.4" bolt pattern.
It's that easy, just bolt it up. However don't be fooled and try to use a C5 bell-housing, it's ~1/2" longer and will not engage the torque converter.
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Motor Mounts

It seems most people end up making custom motor mounts for the Ford 302/5.0L to fint in a CJ or YJ. There are alot of companys that make them, but none other than M.O.R.E. the get a thumbs up.

Here is my custom mounts: Bolts to the frame.

Never mind the bad weld, it's the 2nd pass
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Old 04-05-2002, 07:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hop ups

The prevalent restriction point in the 5.0L engines are the heads.
Heads, Heads and Heads. If you want to make the largest improvement you can with one single move, replace the heads, or at least remove the heads and grind the air nipple off the stock heads.
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Old 04-06-2002, 07:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Which donor vehicles have the C4 with the proper output shaft that an Atlas II will bolt up to? Early Bronco? Anything else? And are they 23 spline? I've got the 5.0, harness and all smog goodies in my garage. How about the length of the 5.0 vs a Jeep 4.0? Length of different trannys vs the TF999? Yeah, I know, I could use the "search" button for alot of this, but since the thread is here...
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Old 04-06-2002, 08:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Hop ups

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.N
The prevalent restriction point in the 5.0L engines are the heads.
Heads, Heads and Heads. If you want to make the largest improvement you can with one single move, replace the heads, or at least remove the heads and grind the air nipple off the stock heads.
What about 351 heads? Are they an big improvementon a 302? Are there any negative aspects to the short ford 302 rods? Chevy rods seem a lot longer.
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Old 04-06-2002, 09:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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anyone use z and m conversions motor mounts? they specialize ford to jeep conversions www.zandm.com i have a cj project coming up that will get a 351w i have sitting around.
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Old 04-06-2002, 09:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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heres a pic of there yj mounts
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Old 04-06-2002, 09:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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and there cj mounts
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Old 04-08-2002, 12:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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96-mid 97 exploder motors came with the gt-40 heads thereafter it went to the gt 40p heads at the end of the heads there are some bars casted in somewhat perpendicular to the cylinder mating surface. 3 bars denote gt40 heads 4 for the p variety.

The p heads are slightly better particularily for off road, they have better exhaust flow despite a smaller valve, great port velocitys.

As mentioned before the exploder motor comes with a cobra type intake, but also comes with a 65mm Throttle body.

I am running a 98 explorer motor with TFS stage one cam in my 65 cobra replica and am using a 88 mustang computer and wiring harness, I had to swap the timing cover, oil pan and distributor to make it all work.

In addition I used an 88 helms manual and trimmed out all unnecesary circuits and tossed all emmission related stuff.

Has ANYONE used the crank triggered, coil on plug setup found on the explorers? Or is everyone using the more common eeciv computer and wiring? (like on an HO mustang.)
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Old 04-08-2002, 12:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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here is a pretty good link on a yj swap

http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects...powertrain.asp

I have thought about swapping the whole running gear from an explorer in, 5.0 AOD and t-case. I will probably do so in the next year or two. I am thinking I should be able to do it for about the price of a good rebuilt 4.0. My cherokee is approaching the 200k mark and feel like if I rebuild the motor the tranny will need it shortly there after.
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Old 04-08-2002, 05:18 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Anyone know of any write-ups for removing the entire smog system off of the 5.0?? I'd like to block or remove any lines I can (don't need) for simplicity.
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Old 04-08-2002, 09:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary E
here is a pretty good link on a yj swap

http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects...powertrain.asp

I have thought about swapping the whole running gear from an explorer in, 5.0 AOD and t-case. I will probably do so in the next year or two. I am thinking I should be able to do it for about the price of a good rebuilt 4.0. My cherokee is approaching the 200k mark and feel like if I rebuild the motor the tranny will need it shortly there after.
Don't the 5.0 explorers have a single speed t-case??
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Old 04-08-2002, 04:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Some miscellaeous ramblings:

- Mustang 5.0-HO engines are arguably the best candidates for a swap. '89-'93 were MAF and had the highest HP numbers, AFAIK. The MAF system is dead easy to deal with in a swap - in fact the EFI HO engines must rank amongst the easiest EFI engines to swap into a non-EFI vehicle. Their electrical systems are almost completely self-contained, so you only have to hook up a few wires during the install.

- When mating a 'stang 5.0-HO with a 4-speed (NP435, T18, T19), use the later-model (post-'85?) 50-oz imbalance truck flywheel, clutch & fork, bellhousing, starter, and throwout bearing. You CANNOT use the Mustang parts - they won't work with those trannies. Small mercy: the pilot bearing is the same, at least.

- Mid-to-late '80s Ford trucks had a great hydraulic clutch setup with an external slave cylinder. The bellhousing for this setup can be bolted between most 5.0 blocks and most HD Ford 4-speeds.

- While the factory 'stang headers look cool, they interfere with the mid-'80s hydraulic clutch slave cylinder. Run the truck manifolds and save a few $, unless you're mud-dragging or something. You should get better low-end anyway.

- 'Stang 5.0s run 40psi in the fuel supply line, so get a pump that's good to at least that much pressure. And yes, you need a return line to the tank.

- Avoid Z&M - my experiences with them have all been negative, and IMHO their stuff is massively overpriced. I'd suggest using separate left- and right-side motor mounts (maybe with a removeable cross-brace) instead of their cradle-type mount. Sure, you should never need to remove your oilpan once the engine is installed, but if you ever do, you're SOL.

- For those of us who would rather walk hot coals than fork over the kind of money AA wants for an Atlas, Ford didn't provide many options for good t-cases. that bolt up to 5.0 powertrains. The EB D20 is okay, but you need a custom adapter to mate it to a 2wd NP435. The NP203 is a boat anchor, which really just leaves the NP205 (2:1 low range) and the NP208 (chain-driven), plus all the later-model NV cases.

There's a bunch of photos & stuff of my 5.0L & dual t-case install at my website, check it out if you haven't already, and feel free to email me with questions if I can help.

Hope that helps some of you,
Chris
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Old 04-08-2002, 05:13 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Just a note on HO motors... you want a MAF not a speed density which leaves you with 89+ (or 88 cal emissions) then the HO motors came with Forged pistons up until 92 then they went to Cast Pistons... for a good head combo run 351W heads they are suppose to gain a lot of HP. I belive it's an 88 or 89 Autos have the best Computer they produce the best HP.

For transmissions NP435 to NP203 to NP205 yea you Definatly need a CJ7 for it but it gives you a 4:1 low range and a 6.69 1st Gear and a 10% lower second gear as opposed to other 3 and 4 speeds (3.3vs 3.0) plus an NP203 you can get Gear reduction for to make it like 3.6 its all gears with no chain BIG BONUS
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Old 04-08-2002, 05:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Hey Cwate, whats your feelings on the swap after you have it done, are you really happy with the 5.0 how much more power did you get, how is the gas mileage etc, your general impressions, would you suggest it to others?

harsanyj, you are right all the 5.0 explorers use a single speed case the 4.0 liters had both lever and button activated low range, the explorer guys also don't have much good to say about the auto tranny either. and talk about switchin to an AOD

Anyone one know what t-cases would be available with the AOD?

maybe a 88-93 mustang, t-bird, or crown vic with an AOD would be a better donor vehicle?
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