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Old 04-07-2002, 11:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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best way to keep radiator mud-free?

im looking for ideas to keep mud off of my radiator, since packing it into the fins make my 401 overheat. someone told me of an extremely fine mesh screen to put in front, then remove/clean when necessary. sounds like a good idea. lets hear yours.
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Old 04-07-2002, 11:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Truckers have used screens similar to what you have been told about. The only drawback I see is slightly restricted airflow. IMO, any screen that is gonna keep mud from packing your fins would do that. I have been thinking about some possible ways to keep water and mud from coming up from underneath. I figure that a piece of thin sheet metal could be bent to fit under the radiator and down angled towards the front of the oil pan. In addition to keeping shiat from coming up into the engine bay it would also direct the cool outside air coming through the radiator right at the block. I haven't had a problem with packing the fins, yet, but the screen would help keep bugs n stuff out at the least. My Jeep may be a but it hasn't had the itch to bury its nose in the mud yet.
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Old 04-08-2002, 01:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've seen screens on other jeeps, but when I tried it on mine it overheated. A screen significantly cuts down air flow. I've had the same clogging problems you're talking about, so now I just leave it open and hose it off real good after it gets muddy and clean it out real good once a year or so.

BTW, the worse thing is when you get little bits of organic stuff in between the fins (like from driving through a field of tall grass) and then get it muddy.
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Old 04-08-2002, 05:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Move radiator to rear of vehicle

Move radiator to top of vehicle

Swap engine for an air cooled version

Just some possible solutions
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Old 04-08-2002, 06:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Stay outta the mud... simple answer.
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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i solved this problem with some thin sheet metal.. mounted it to the bottom of the grill area.. and then angled it down.. i went up about 3 inchs on each side and made it angle back towards the center.. and i left about a 2 inch gap at the bottom.. due to the simple fact that mud does come thru the grill some times.. when looking for china.. . screen is a bad idea.. unless u add a nother fan.. .. put the screen on the gril and a puller fan in the middle along with ur reg fan behind it.. this might help .. good luck
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Old 04-08-2002, 02:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If you put the radiator on the back of your jeep, wouldnt it not get enough air blowing on it to cool it down? I always thought thats why they were up front. Does Anyone have pics of jeeps with moved radiators? Ive seen the landrovers and stuff with solid roofs, but my jeep is a soft top
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Old 04-08-2002, 03:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by phineas
If you put the radiator on the back of your jeep, wouldnt it not get enough air blowing on it to cool it down?
ever hear of an ELECTRIC FAN???
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Old 04-08-2002, 10:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Why not get creative? I am imagineing a fine screen over the grill with a puller fan behind it, this screen will become clogged with mud after about 25 feet of real mud, so to clean it, rig up a single windsheild wiper to scrape it clean. Then slap a sheet metal type deal as described above under the radiator and your in buisness.
Shouldn't be as hard to rig up as some of the cool jeep inventions I have seen.

If you get it going I would like to see it.

Tony
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Old 04-08-2002, 11:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Talking

I just had a ... its gonna sounda kinda at first, but just think it through, stop an drink a or have some , then think about it again. I think its doable, 'specially for the home tube bender guys.

If you move the radiator to the top, or even the back, you will need to plumb it due to lack of length in stock radiator hoses. I am already going to be running a full cage on my so why not use it for the plumbing aspect I mean, why the hell not?!?!?! Quite a few wheelers use 'em for an OBA tank. You might even gain some cooling ability, depending on the time of year, by directing the flow throught out the majority of the cage. It would take some planning on the routing of flow first and at the same time planning which tubes to block off as well as which ones to open to make the fluid flow in the correct direction. Devil's Advocate says what about rust factor?!? Galvanized ain't too bright if ya know what I mean and copper is waaaaay too soft. IMHO, if the rust factor can be eliminated, this is an easy way to go with some interesting benefits.

Any good and experienced benders out there wanna guinea pig to test it out on?! C'mon man... I think I gotta winner here! We can work out the details, but I am already gonna put up quite a bit o' for the Bender King!!
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Old 04-09-2002, 05:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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so why not use it for the plumbing aspect I mean, why the hell not?!?!?!
Cause it would get really fawkin' hot in there with the top on...
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Old 04-09-2002, 06:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama


Cause it would get really fawkin' hot in there with the top on...
And it would be a biatch if you ever touched your cage.
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Old 04-09-2002, 07:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjhunter
Why not get creative? I am imagineing a fine screen over the grill with a puller fan behind it, this screen will become clogged with mud after about 25 feet of real mud, so to clean it, rig up a single windsheild wiper to scrape it clean. Then slap a sheet metal type deal as described above under the radiator and your in buisness.
Shouldn't be as hard to rig up as some of the cool jeep inventions I have seen.

If you get it going I would like to see it.

Tony


using the radiator whneplaced t in the rear of the vehcle as a heater inst a bad idea all it would take is a well placed fan// during summer months a pusher from the inside out.. during the winter months a pusher from the out side in.. .. but scrap the idea of using the roll cage as a parth of flow.. a hard roll and a rock laying in the wrong place culd seriously hurt whenhot antifreeze is being sprayed all over u and ur passengers.. espically whne there is no quick route of exit.. build a lil cage around the radiator if goign in back and run ur flo streight down and along the inside of a frame rail. :flipoff2
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Old 04-09-2002, 07:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by oopsdidmyjeeproostya




using the radiator whneplaced t in the rear of the vehcle as a heater inst a bad idea all it would take is a well placed fan// during summer months a pusher from the inside out.. during the winter months a pusher from the out side in.. .. but scrap the idea of using the roll cage as a parth of flow.. a hard roll and a rock laying in the wrong place culd seriously hurt whenhot antifreeze is being sprayed all over u and ur passengers.. espically whne there is no quick route of exit.. build a lil cage around the radiator if goign in back and run ur flo streight down and along the inside of a frame rail. :flipoff2
damn i quoted teh wrong perosn.. this was supose to be added to tigger's mess.. sorry bout that.
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Old 04-09-2002, 07:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hi Nomorejagermeister ,

I don't know if you would be interested in this or not, but I have seen what I believe are called "Bow Shields" on many vehicles in Australia and Asia where they get more then their share of flooding.

What it amount to is a nylon type of material that functions much like a window shade works, only in reverse.

It is mounted in front of the grill down at the bottom and unrolls "Upward" (Just like a window shade would, only in reverse.)

I do not know exactly how these work but they do work remotely from the drivers seat. I know I have a picture of one of these things. Let me see if I can find it.

I think the one I have is manually operated.


Anyway, prior to going into the water/mud you pull the shield out, after you get out of the mud/water you roll it up and let the nice clean radiator do its job.

I think I saw a picture on one of the English Web Sites. Give me a few minutes

Frank
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Old 04-09-2002, 08:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daless2
Hi Nomorejagermeister ,

I don't know if you would be interested in this or not, but I have seen what I believe are called "Bow Shields" on many vehicles in Australia and Asia where they get more then their share of flooding.

What it amount to is a nylon type of material that functions much like a window shade works, only in reverse.

It is mounted in front of the grill down at the bottom and unrolls "Upward" (Just like a window shade would, only in reverse.)

I do not know exactly how these work but they do work remotely from the drivers seat. I know I have a picture of one of these things. Let me see if I can find it.

I think the one I have is manually operated.


Anyway, prior to going into the water/mud you pull the shield out, after you get out of the mud/water you roll it up and let the nice clean radiator do its job.

I think I saw a picture on one of the English Web Sites. Give me a few minutes

Frank

Here is a picture of a manual implementation of this.

http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/shop/rad.html

I will try and find the link to the automatic one when I get a little more time.

Frank
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Old 04-09-2002, 10:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mo
Stay outta the mud... simple answer.
ditto, MUD SUX

and as for routing the coolant through the cage, look at the stats on THE FROG for TTC, it says his cage is a coolant tank or something along those lines. personally, i wouldnt want a fawkin HOT cage or potentially leaky hot cage
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Old 04-09-2002, 10:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daless2



Here is a picture of a manual implementation of this.

http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/shop/rad.html

I will try and find the link to the automatic one when I get a little more time.

Frank
THAT SET UP WOD BE A PAININ THE ASS FOR THE SOME ONE ON HARD DAY OF WHEELIN WHERE THEY GO THRU OVER WHAT THEY COME ACROSS.. ROCKS R FUN BUT I GO IA STR8 LINE WHEN ON A TRIAL.. MUD ROCK WHAT EVER.. IF POSSIBLE.. AND I SURE IN THE HELL WOULDNT WANNA STOP AND PUTA LOOKING THINGLIKE THATON TH FRNT OF MY JEEP.. THEN STOP AND TAKE IT OFF... TO MUCH MOUNTING AND DIS MOUNTING.. SOUNDS A LIL BIT TO MUCH ..



AND TO THOSE WHO SAY STAY OUT OF THE MUD.. DONT BE A FLAMMING GET DOWN AND DIRTY. SO KICK BACK AND GO FOR IT
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Old 04-09-2002, 10:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Okay okay, I didn't really explain myself too well.

JAKESTERAMALAMAJAMA, MO, and OOPS, ...

First, this would be best for those using an exocage NOT an internal one.

Second, even if you don't want to use the whole cage you could just plumb a straight path using the same methods for directing flow when the cage is welded up.

Third, IF your exocage "sprung a leak" you could vent the radiator cap, dry the leaker, and then buzz up a weld. VOILA!

And last but not least, :WileyCoyotevoice: for those not so thrilled with my ingenious ideas or lack of a cage(of any type), you can always run a line up one side of you rig and back down the other back to the engine. My only concern no matter which way you go is the RUST FACTOR. :WileyCoyotevoiceagain: Back to the ol' drawing board!
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Old 04-10-2002, 01:55 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Mud in a Radiator is an old problem. When mud then mud.
You can do it with two radiators, you cover your normal radiator, now your airflow is rather bad and the temperature increases, therefor you have a second radiator, the waterflow opens automaticly with a "Thermostat" in the radiator tubes. This radiator is an big iron radiator under your Jeep, best practice, there where your gasoline tank was, this radiator is allways wet in the mud. Wet surfaces become cool very fast, "put your finger into mouth, and put it out and blow(not suck), its cool okay", this is a physical thing you can use. This radiator is only in use when the temperature increases over the "Thermostat". Its easy to clean and your normal radiator is staying allways clean. Is it that what you want ? (Excuse my bad american english.)

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Old 04-10-2002, 04:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by AUR-JX20
When mud then mud.
Dudes, I think that about sums it all up.

Unlike alot of the pansies in here who seem to be AFRAID of the mud, I embrace it. I've done a few mud runs with my Jeep and the method I usually use is the old trash-bag-over-the-grill Jedi Jeep trick... this is fine for one-shot competition, but I realize that on the trail this is very impractical.

Many of the purpose-built mud trucks have the radiator mounted high, behind the cab like someone already mentioned, but again, this is a poor solution for a Jeep.

If I did enough deep mud to have to worry about it I'd use a flap. this is, basically a big, thick rubber mat that hangs down under the front of many mud trucks and kinda looks like a really wide mud flap off a semi tractor... as you go through the mud, it is pushed back and helps you slide over the mud rather than having it pack into the engine compartment.

Honestly, I haven't had much problem with mud clogging my radiator and I've never had my Jeep overheat because of it. (Of course, up 'til now, I haven't had a V-8 to keep cool so soon I may be changing my tune...)

Tigger4X:
Not to dog on your exo-cage-as-coolant-line idea, but I'm still not convinced. It seems like the first time you rolled, you'd have coolant spraying everywhere... If you ever do actually attempt it, I'd be interested in seeing a writeup though...

Jake
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Old 04-10-2002, 08:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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JAKESTERAMALAMAJAMA ... I talked it over with a buddy of mine and we both agree that the rust factor in the cage would be the hardest part to overcome. As far as cracks in the exocage go, I guess it would depend on who built it, how well, and how bad the roll was. If you ended up with a leaker, an exocage should have no negative effect on the passenger compartment.

IF I end up doing this, I will write it up with pics and off road results. Guess this means I'd hafta go and roll on purpose ... for the sake of science of course!

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Old 04-11-2002, 12:05 AM   #23 (permalink)
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You would not need to fill the entire cage or a entire section of the cage. Why not plumb the cage with copper pipe to the radiator. This way rust is not a prob and if you do have a bad roll over chances are better that you wont get scalded with hot coolant.

Tony
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Old 04-11-2002, 01:24 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Hot tubes can be wrapped in neoprene...you can find cylindrical extrusions. Galvanic corrosion could be prevented by running a 60/40 mix or even better 70/30 mix of anti-freeze/water.

If your are really concerned then I would stick in a piece of Al some where in the system. Al has a electronegativity of 1.61 while Iron has 1.83. This will cause the Al to be eaten away by the galvanic effect. The rate at which the Al is eaten away is determined by the difference between electronegativity (0.22) and the ratio of contact area between the two materials.

So, design in a container that will hole a brick of Al, make it easily accessible and check, change it when ever the Al is eaten away. You might want to check the electronegativity of the particular alloys that your are planning on using. The one that has the lower electroneg. will be the one that gets eaten away

Cheers,
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Old 04-11-2002, 08:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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if you are die hard about running a cooling system thru ur rollcage.. theres some undgerground construsction companys using a no ditch system its pipe rehabliation .. its a type of plastic that is smaller diamter to th the pipe.. its inerted in to the pipe then steamed up to fit the the pipe.. what it does it basiaclly adds a lawyer or plastic inside of the pipe.. this might be a good idea to look for this so that rust wont be a factor.. im sure it will hold up to the temp of radiator fluid.. since i was installing this type of infa structure on steam pipes which are much much hotter.. im not sure where ur at.. or if this is even a possiblity.. but deffintly sumthing worth loking at.. since saftey is the number one issuse.. ! good luck and dont forgetthe wrte up . and pics.
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