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Old 09-27-2006, 08:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Rock Jock vs Pro Rock

If you had the bucks to buy a pair hp 60's which of the above would you choose? How would you build them? What would you base your choices on?

Im looking at selling my current axles which would pay for a rear 60. The front I'd be on my own.

Being up north, I've never even seen either one of these axle brands, so havent the slightest experience with either one.

I like the lower weight and slightly lower cost of the currie axles, but would that cause issues, or sacrifice durability?

I like that pro fronts seem to use more generic parts, rather then doing a currie one that requires their specially machined and redrilled F450 unit bearings.

Im not to concerned with steering. Hi, low, flat. Im doing my own full hydro on whatever I get, so generic would be fine.

Anyone know which brand has more clearence under the center section, or are they pretty much equal?

This build is on 37's, the biggest I see going would be maybe 39's.

Im thinking semi float in the rear to keep cost down, and it should be more then strong enough.

Wheeling application is mostly mud, cutline, some rock, and a few trips a year down south to play on rocks is in the near future.

So, what would you go with and how would you build them?

Thanks.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Kingpin > ball joint

spindal > unit bearing

If I was droppin' serious cash on axles I would definantly buid my own...


*Spyder 9 centers, 9 inch center > D60 center

*Dedenbear 60 inner C's

* 60 Outers are a toss up between Deadenbear and Welderbuilt

609

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Old 09-27-2006, 09:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I actually dont mind balljoints and unit bearings. I like the ease of working on them compared to KP's and spindles. I dont think you'd be losing alot of strength with a F450 BJ compared to a king pin. But I dont really know, so wont say. As for unit bearings, they are pricy, but it beats having to tear aprt wheel bearings every time you get home because you wheel in wet muddy areas the majority of the time.

Kind of location thing on the unit bearings.

But if I went unit bearing, I'd prefer something more like a stock dodge one, that I can get anywhere, rather then special order.



I see this 609 thrown around here a lot, and it seems to be the new thing. What makes these a better axle? Only thing I know is that gearing options are pretty much unlimited with 9" centers. What else makes them better then a hp 60?
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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the gears themselves...
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel77
the gears themselves...
wow Jo, thats really informative................. (look, more periods then you)


What about the gears? 3rd pinion bearing? Larger? Stronger? Easier setup? Cheaper?

All of the above?

I asked to compare some 60's, and get one liners on 609's. If you think the 609 would be a better axle to go with, thats cool. But why not actually describe why you think its a better axle.

One liners dont really help get your point across.

Maybe eloborate on the 609 a bit?
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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From what I understand the 4.88 gears and 5.38 gears from true hi9 have better mesh than their HP60 counterparts, I believe the teeth are a little bigger.
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Joel77
From what I understand the 4.88 gears and 5.38 gears from true hi9 have better mesh than their HP60 counterparts, I believe the teeth are a little bigger.
Thanks man, good to know.
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Old 09-27-2006, 11:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnine
Thanks man, good to know.
Thier are a few things that make the 9 a better center section than the 60...

First, the 9 inch gearr sets have a larger contact area compared to the 60 due to a wider ring gear.

Second, the 9 inch has a third pinion bearing on the end of the pinion to conteract gear deflection.

Third, the 9 inch center section in 3rd member style and does not use shims to set the ring gear... very easy bench top gear installs.


Lastly, most (maby all) 9 inch housing are ferrous steel ( not cast), making it easier to fabricate brackets that attach to the center section...


All the reasons and I still run 60's

I would have 609's If I could afford it

Last edited by Schmozilla; 09-27-2006 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 09-27-2006, 11:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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There is a wealth of info here http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html if your up to some reading. Yes it is from my site but all the info is factual. It's basically only about the gears though.
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Old 09-27-2006, 11:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I found that spidertrax housing thread and read through it.

I didnt know about these axles but am definately interested now that I've seen them.

The housing look to be a around 400 a peice, then you need all the ingredients to finish them off.

What do think they would come out price like at the end of the day compared to pro rocks or rock jocks?

Seen any good write ups on spider 9 builds?
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Old 09-27-2006, 11:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truehi9
There is a wealth of info here http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html if your up to some reading. Yes it is from my site but all the info is factual. It's basically only about the gears though.
Thanks True
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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This fella may be a good guy to ask about them.

/forum/axles-tires-wheels-sale/500369-spidertrax-9-lightweight-60-outers.html
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Again thanks.

The more I read on these 609's, the more I see why people are doing them.

Few questions.

If I built a front similar to CA YJ's, using dodge unit bearings, can you use stock dodge outers as spares?

What is the bolt pattern on dodge bearings, same as other 1 ton stuff, 8 x 6.5?

Using that 64.5 wms on the front, would 65 on the rear allow you to use stock length 35 splines on the rear?

Truhi, your 3rd's fit in these spider housings no problem right?

On the rear, do you just cut, weld, and drill some plate for backing plates? What do you for rear wheel bearings, do stockers fit in the 3 x 1/4 inch tubes?


What is the clearence difference between the pro rocks, spider housings, and rock jocks? Anyone know?

Strongly considering buyin a set of spider housings and start from there. Just have a few questions before I do.

Thanks all.
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you must have the pricey axles look at Rockcrusher also. They build some beefy products!
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Old 09-27-2006, 02:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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teraflex also makes 60 center sections. they have the crd 60 which has more clearance than and normal 60 as well as a shaved 60 housing. rockcrusher makes a housing but i'm not sure about them. i'm on the east coast and there a plenty and off road shops around here that make custom rears from all kinds of rears. they can also use junkyard housing as well. the one shop i used build a hp 44 from an f-250. he took the rear that he had. pressed out the tubes. installed thicker axles tubes. welded on new knuckles and perches and set the rears up. when i got my 60 built. i used tera shaved 60 in the front with crane knuckles 1/2" wall tubes the knuckles were king pins. the back got a crd60 with 1/2" wall tubes and disc brakes. it is also a full floater with drive flanges. you can almost build what ever you want. it only takes time and money
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Old 09-27-2006, 02:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Our third member will fit anywhere a standard 3rd member will fit. I would call Brian at Twisted Customs 605-923-7288. They are buying the parts from Spidertrax and finishing complete axles from there.
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Old 09-27-2006, 05:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm curious what axles you have under your rig that will finance a built Prorock, Rockjock, Rockcrusher, 9 ect?

Not trying to be snide or anything but bying one of the above built to width, gears, lockers, brackets, ect = $$$

fwiw I went with Prorocks. To do it again I might go a different route. Nothing negative to say about the Prorocks but there are other options out there.
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Old 09-27-2006, 06:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I just had Rockcrusher build me a front D60. Their product is topnotch and customer service is fantastic. They can build with a variety of option's and build the best axle on the market IMO. I will be getting rid of my Pro Rock 60 in the rear and replacing it with a Rockcrusher D60 in 3 year's, as I like their stuff better....they use only the best in their build....Call and talk to Matt or John...
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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We just replaced a Rock Jock in a rear application with a Tera CRD because the RJ spun the aluminum housing on the steel tubes. Sheered all of the little set screws right off. That makes me super leery. The rig is a Stock class comp Jeep running 35" Krawlers so it was nothing crazy. Currie does not seem to get what strength is needed. They also spec'd out a front axle with stock D30 outers even after my customer told them it was for competition and price was not a limiting factor. We replaced that front with a Rock Crusher last year.

I liked the CRD housing over the Rock Crusher for some added features. I would say the CRD would be the way to go if weight is not a huge issue and you want to stay with a 60-type housing.

If weight is an issue, I would really recommend the Spidertrax stuff with some 60 outers. Some guys have been running these with great results and they are LIGHT. I think the strength is there if done right and I am leery about unit bearings, but apparently they are working right for people.

For the build of whatever you decide I would contact Doug at Extreme Axle Sales. He can get whatever you want done and is real tough to beat on prices and definitely not beatable on service.
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I recently built a Spydertrax 609 using a hi9 center section in conjunction with Twisted Customs. I cannot post pics but have a few that I could email someone if they are willing to post them.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microtus
I'm curious what axles you have under your rig that will finance a built Prorock, Rockjock, Rockcrusher, 9 ect?

Not trying to be snide or anything but bying one of the above built to width, gears, lockers, brackets, ect = $$$

fwiw I went with Prorocks. To do it again I might go a different route. Nothing negative to say about the Prorocks but there are other options out there.
Pair of complete, rubi 44's with alloys, all the stock spares, 5.13's, alloy seals, warn front cover, dynatrac rear, front lca skids, rear truss/link mount, and a full set of spidertrax 1.25 spacers.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If weight is an issue, I would really recommend the Spidertrax stuff with some 60 outers. Some guys have been running these with great results and they are LIGHT. I think the strength is there if done right and I am leery about unit bearings, but apparently they are working right for people.
Pretty sure this is the route Im going to take. Im going to start with the housings and build from there.

Im going to build myself. Just take my time, ask a lot of questions and do it right.

Weight is an issue, but strength is a must. I saw a few really good trusses on the spider 9 thread, and will probably mimic one of those.

A lot of mud around here, boat anchor axles really kill your performance on the trail unless you want to run monster truck rubber.

I have my own miller 210, plasma cutter and bender. As well as access to a tig across the street. No pro with fabbing, but getting better.

Thanks all for the help. I'll post another thread once I start building.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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This is just my own speculation and observation, but from what I've seen out of 9's, I've seen a lot of blown cases caused by the increased gear deflection because of the angle of the pinion gear to the ring gear. Now maybe this is just with a stock case, but this has been the predominate failure that I've noted while being on this board and while browsing other places. Keep that in mind if you do go towards a 609, there's going to be money thrown into strengthening the case/pinion support, whatever.

How many 60 gearsets do we see blown to pieces here? Even stock ones? IMHO the 60 is the way to go. I truly believe that it is far more reliable and has more pure beef than a 9. The 9 IMHO, of course, is a great axle, but seems to be tempermental, kind of like a rich 19 year old girl. Great to do when she's thinking the same thing you are, but a PITA when she's not and you want some.

Edit: Too late, you got a reply in before me. Good luck, let us know how it works out.
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Old 09-28-2006, 06:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
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IMO, I find building the axles yourself is half the fun, especially if you have the right tools, do your research and you can build a pretty much bullet proof set up.
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Old 09-28-2006, 08:02 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currupt4130
This is just my own speculation and observation, but from what I've seen out of 9's, I've seen a lot of blown cases caused by the increased gear deflection because of the angle of the pinion gear to the ring gear. Now maybe this is just with a stock case, but this has been the predominate failure that I've noted while being on this board and while browsing other places. Keep that in mind if you do go towards a 609, there's going to be money thrown into strengthening the case/pinion support, whatever.

How many 60 gearsets do we see blown to pieces here? Even stock ones? IMHO the 60 is the way to go. I truly believe that it is far more reliable and has more pure beef than a 9. The 9 IMHO, of course, is a great axle, but seems to be tempermental, kind of like a rich 19 year old girl. Great to do when she's thinking the same thing you are, but a PITA when she's not and you want some.

Edit: Too late, you got a reply in before me. Good luck, let us know how it works out.

I have also seen 9" centers fail. What I have noticed is that they are stock non "N" cases. I have never heard of a Hi9 fail.
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