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Old 12-10-2006, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can we get a front link setup journal? Post up what you have/know!

Can we get a hard core list of front link suspensions? I have been searching for days and there is tons of information but it is all spread out all over the place. Most everything is dedicated to rear suspension setups and everyone agrees that the rear should have different characteristics than the front. So here is what I propose.

1.) Post up with what you're running. Your impressions and what you would change. Pictures are awesome

2.) Link discussion on end placement and what you've done for bracketry.

3.) Link seperation. Vertical at axle and vertical at frame to combat torque loads. Also horizontal link seperation on the axle via different setup methods.

4.) 3 link and panhard? 4 link, dual triangulated, triangulated uppers or lowers and characteristics of each setup.

5.) Anti dive and Anti Lift properties. How to combat each and ideal setup numbers using Triaged's calculator.

6.) Might as well talk about methods used to figure out roll center, COG, and unsprung weight. What did you do to guesstimate your entries into the calc.

7.) Link lengths. Yes go with what you can roll with but ideal numbers for lengths of links and the characteristics they play on pinion angle due to axle articulation.

8.) Fire from the hip with any other useful information.


Yes I am building my front link setup within the next week and I'm more confused now than before I started researching link suspensions here. I talk with certain vendors to help in the aid of my link setup and everyone wants to build something different. I'm hoping for a tried and true setup dictionary that will guide newbs(like me) into what front suspension to run and why. I will combine all the useful information into a couple large posts for a one and all definition to front link suspension theory.
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Old 12-10-2006, 08:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What a timely post...

I am finishing my linked suspension on my jeep.
At the moment the rear links are in place, and I only need to burn in the final welds, the front is taking a bit more time.

For the rear:
Single triangulated four link.
Lowers mount to the frame and at the outer portion of the axle.
Uppers mount to the inside of the frame and converge at the differential.
-
Here is a shot looking at the rear links from the side:
-
And one more looking straight back from underneath:

I will post screen shots of my link calculators tomorrow.


Edit: I just realized I have WAY too many jack stands...

Last edited by the freeak; 12-10-2006 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 08:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Post up when you finish the FRONT LINK SETUP
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Doh!



I just noticed that...
OK, Heres some of the front:




The upper arm will be vertically adjustable at both ends (~3")
I am in the process of trying to decide on whether to give the lowers a vertically adjustable mount at the frame end, since (according to Triaged calc) the frame end creates quite a range of Antidive.
(I can go from 49% to 130% between the adjustments at the upper link and lowers)

The lowers are at ~41" of seperation at the axle, with ~17" of seperation at the frame.

Lowers are ~36" long, upper will be ~ 38".

As I understand, this difference in length will cause the pinion to point at the transfercase through out the travel of the suspension.

The upper arm is angled toward the middle of the axle (about two- three inches) at the front.

At this point, I have the upper link sloping down from the frame end to the axle.
I have read conflicting reports as to the position it should be in,
ranging from: "you want it as flat as possible",

to this equation which I dont fully understand:

Formula for upper arm placement.
(according to Gordon)

O=(D*y)/(2*R*X*tan(a))

O= Offset from center of 3rd link
X= distance from lower link to the ground
Y= vert. distance of upper link mount to lower link mount on axle.
a= angle of 3rd link from horizontal
R= gear ratio

So, who wants to chime in with their two cents?

Later,

Chris

Edit:
Here is my current revision of the front link system:

Last edited by the freeak; 12-11-2006 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm just finishing my front link setup so I can't tell you if it works just what I've read and what I was able to put together, the panhard goes in tomorrow. Here is how it has turned out.



Here are the links all 1.5" .250 wall, lowers are 40" eye to eye, uppers are 36" eye to eye. The lowers are getting sleeved with 2" .250 wall.



This setup netted me AS/AD of 66% or 55% depending which hole I mount the upper to on the axle. Has about 1.7 degrees roll understeer.

I totally guessed at what my unsprung and sprung weight was. For a CG I used the hieght at the top of the transmission bellhousing which seems to be a common thought.

If you want my Link calculator please email me and I will send it to you. There is somewhat of a thread on it here:
/forum/general-4x4-discussion/532900-these-good-3-link-numbers.html


And lastly from what I have read it is better to do a 3-link panhard if you are planning on using a draglink as the panhard should match the drag link geometry. Howerver if you are going full hydro a 4 link will give you better performance.

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Old 12-11-2006, 03:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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bump
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Freeak-where's the pics?
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a double triangulated 4 link in the front of my rig.

Lowers are 40", uppers are 37" on air shocks.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCKRATZ
I have a double triangulated 4 link in the front of my rig.

Lowers are 40", uppers are 37" on air shocks.

can you be more specific? What about link locations? What did you do for axle and frame placement? Is your front axle stretched out any? Any more info than that would be great!
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guidolyons
Freeak-where's the pics?
I see them...

Can anyone else see them?

Chris
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i would love some pics of yall's adjustable height upper frame side mounts
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak

The lowers are at ~41" of seperation at the axle, with ~17" of seperation at the frame.

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Old 12-12-2006, 12:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajincajingt

Is that bad?
Maybe I should have said HORIZONTAL seperation?

I will post pics of the adjustable upper mount as soon as I can...
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak
I see them...

Can anyone else see them?

Chris
Nope.. not me, no red X's, no URL, no nuthin'

EDIT: I can see them now...I was staying in a hotel, it must have been the hotel's crappy internet.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Goin in my XJ:







The axle:





Roughly installed:







Should be off the jackstands and testing in the near future, will report back.

Anti-dive is at 62% by the calculator, adjustable +/- 10% by different holes for the frame side upper.

Lowers are 2" OD x 1/4" wall; panhard, upper, and steering are 1.5" OD x 1/4" wall.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak
Is that bad?
Maybe I should have said HORIZONTAL seperation?

oooo

thanks for that
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVdSlUT
can you be more specific? What about link locations? What did you do for axle and frame placement? Is your front axle stretched out any? Any more info than that would be great!
cj5 with a 110" wheelbase so yeah its stretched a little

lowers mount to the bottom of the frame and as far out on the axle tube to still allow full steering.

uppers mount about mid-height on the frame on the inside and as close together as possible on a truss on the axle.

Axle lower 21"
Axle Upper 27.375"
Frame lower 23.5"
Frame upper 27.5"
Frame at 25"

Couple pics

upper mounts are like this (pic is of the rear but the fronts are the same)







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Old 12-12-2006, 02:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Is it just what I post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guidolyons
Nope.. not me, no red X's, no URL, no nuthin'
or are the others missing too?

I am using photobucket...dont know what to tell you.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Works now...I was at a hotel earlier, must have been a problem with the hotel's internet.

Now that I can see the pics, this thread is much better.

Pardon the interuption, now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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what is better 4 link or three for the front (cj5 w/ 100" wb) I see alot of 4 and 3 link
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:28 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepin jay
what is better 4 link or three for the front (cj5 w/ 100" wb) I see alot of 4 and 3 link
Depends largely on what kind of steering you want to run.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Im going to run psc full hydro
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
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lowers 2.5" 1.25 shank JJ's, 2" box tube 31" long
upper and panhard 3/4x3/4 FK alloy heim 1.5x.25 DOM 32" long

no room for an upper on driver's side (exhaust), hence the single upper on pass side and panhard.

no calc numbers, I don't waste time with that. I just build shit how it fits and looks good.



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Old 12-13-2006, 07:15 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Wish I had something to add to the thread but I am working through figuring out what I am going to run on mine. I will be watching this thread.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:04 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Chris Demartini:

Quote: " no calc numbers, I don't waste time with that. I just build shit how it fits and looks good."

Have you ever run the numbers AFTER the fact?
Just to see what they are, and how the system performs in relation to the "numbers"?

Chris
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