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Old 03-14-2007, 06:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Just Another Leaf Sprung CJ on D44's

First, some background on the buildup.

The tube frame is an one-off custom from the early days of rockcrawling competition. Built to factory specs, the frame was made to be a lightweight, strong replacement for stock frames in stock class rockcrawling. Well, about 6 months of R&D showed a crappy repo of a tube frame in Quadratec and tube frames outlawed from stock class competition.

What do you do with a one-off frame? build a one-off Jeep, of course. And take your sweet-ass time doing it. Moving to another state has put a serious crimp on the Jeeps progress, but it is still coming along. I get back to work on it at least once a month. Progress is slow, but steady.

The chassis is in the middle of fab, so things will be changed as they go. I have a huge backlog of pics, and I will start posting them.

This Jeep will remain street legal, and I have lots of plans on driving it.


Premise:

Inexpensive (not necessarily cheap) to build, cheap to operate. Easy to find parts. Strong enough. Not HUGE, able to fit in most parking lots and standard garages. I plan on keeping the weight below 4,000lbs. Hopefully alot below.

Stats:

Tires/Wheels:

35" Krawlers on Trailready BL's. Keeps it low and driveable, I have seen alot of success with stock-class rigs on the same tires. If it works...(Cheap-o 35's and steelies for street use)

Axles:

79 waggy front, 89 waggy rear. Alloys, longs, detroits, 4.56's, etc. Stock housings, easy to replace Light weight, 35's, should be fine.

Brakes:

No power booster would fit, not even hydroboost. Wilwood 1" masters, CNC 3/4" cutting brakes, GM metric calipers all around. Should still work OK.

Suspension:

Sprung over on 2" Wrangler BDS springs frenched 5 inches into the frame. As low as you can go with a spring over.

I know, no links. I have set up several link suspensions, and the bottom line is I can fix my entire suspension with one piece, and someone else found out the proper geometry for me. Besides, I have some tricks to make it work very well.

Motor:

97 4.0, 2003 intake modified to side draft, 95 computer, wiring and return fuel rail.

Drivetrain:

IH Scout T19w with Ford t18 input to a Texas D300. Stupid-short, shorter than the Powerglide-Atlas in the buggy. 36" driveshafts- front and rear

Body:

Yes. A full one, kinda. Rockers are the floor, body is lowered 2 inches and is 1 inch shorter. Body lines fabricated out of 3/16's and 10ga with stock soft top rails riveted to accommodate a top and doors. A full writeup will follow.

No 60's, nothing bigger than 35's. But alot of work and some cool tricks have gone into it.
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What do you do when your 4.0 is 2 inches forward, raised a couple of inches, and your body is dropped?

Well, the hood no longer closes on the 90 degree elbow and there is no room for an air cleaner.

Intake modification time!!!

Start with a 2003+ intake manifold.

2 machined 1/2 inch AL plates, one for a blockoff of the original hole and one to weld to the manifold. A 2 1/2 inch (? don't remember actual size) hole saw is used on the manifold. The power brake booster vacuum port makes a convient pilot hole.

The throttle body has to be mildly modified, I think the IAC motor has to be turned 180 degrees for wiring. Security torx meet security chisel.

Resulting intake looks cool,at least. The motor has not been fired, but I dont think there should be any issues.







If you havent figured it out, I cannot leave anything alone.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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How low can you go with a spring over suspension and high-steer?

Well, with 3 inches of up travel, with a little fudge room for front winch...




















Right about here. The Jeep is sitting on jackstands, full weight on the suspension.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here is the "tech" on leaf springs. We all know this, but sometimes it needs to be reinforced.

BDS 2" springs were chosen for several reasons. They have a great warranty. They have some arch so they hold up better than stock wrangler springs. Mil-wrap helps if there is breakage. And, well, I already had them.

Leaf spring suspension and front axle geometry are based on the spring being level in respect to the ground. Most stock suspensions are set up this way. Sometimes leafsprings get off-angle for whatever reason with different installations and performance suffers.

Center of gravity is a hot topic as well. The easiest way to get a better COG is to lower the weight as much as possible. This is accomplished with leaf springs by frenching them into the frame.

This is one way to make a leaf suspension as LOW as possible. Any lower and the suspension has no way to compress.

I know the shackles are big, but they need to be with the mil-wrap springs.

The shackle reversal debate is way played out. This application worked out better forward. If I hate it i will change it.

Front spring mount - The spring will be shimmed with washers. The frame has fluxuated in width and the 1/4 inch gap will help align the springs during final assembly




Front shackle mount - It will be integrated into the winch mount for added strength. Cherokee (XJ) shackles.



Rear spring mount. Gusseted into the cage, I have not made the supports for the cage yet. Much more building to go.



Rear shackle mount. Integrated into a purdy bumper.



Ah well. Thats my suspension. The hardest way to do a leaf spring suspension. With all this thought and effort, I could have just linked it, but I am pretty well hard-headed.
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Old 03-14-2007, 08:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Cool build. It sounds like a similar premise to my GPW. The only problem I see is that you are not going to be able to use your brakes with dual 1" masters. I would recommend a 3/4" or 13/16" for the front and a 3/4" for the rear brakes. You are moving too much fluid with two 1.00" masters to get any sort of good hydraulic advantage.

Your dual masters have a surface area about equivalent to that of a 1-7/16" bore master cylinder with no power brakes. Just something to think about.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFascist View Post
Cool build. It sounds like a similar premise to my GPW. The only problem I see is that you are not going to be able to use your brakes with dual 1" masters. I would recommend a 3/4" or 13/16" for the front and a 3/4" for the rear brakes. You are moving too much fluid with two 1.00" masters to get any sort of good hydraulic advantage.

You're dual masters have a surface area about equivalent to that of a 1-7/16" bore master cylinder with no power brakes. Just something to think about.
The chief reason I am using 1 inch masters is because I got them for free. They stopped the Buggy well with front and rear Toy brakes, and I am running with more leverage on the cylinders with the stock brake setup (7:1 ratio?)

I am also a little confused on the 1 7/16 master comment. I assumed on a modern dual masters with separate pistons for the front and rear brake is no different than running side-by-side single masters?? should it not act like a normal 1 inch master?

Thanks for the comments. I still have alot to learn.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The standard "dual master" uses the pressure from the front piston to engage the rear piston. Only fluid pushes the rear brake piston forward, there is no mechanical contact. Therefore a "dual" or "Tandem" master that is 1.00" dia will have the same feel as a single bore 1.00" master hooked to the same brake system.

Stock Toyotas use a dual 15/16" MC IIRC.

The leverage is more than stock. Most are setup 6:1, but I would definitely try it first.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Cool

Do you have any clearance pics, of the top of the bellhousing, firewall area?

I'm dying to do a belly up, and get the motor as high as possible (without a bodylift). My problem lies with the NP435 behind the 4.0. Its allready up and under my dash.

Awsome build also.

I'm diggin' on that intake.

Doug
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Awesome build you got going on there. I like it because it is different. I run GM metric calipers on the buggy with a single 1 1/16 master and am swapping to dual 3/4 for independent braking. I too think you will need to downsize but you can always do that when everything else is done and test it out. Question, at ride height, what is the distance from the floor to the bottom of the P on the jeep stamp just behind the fenders? Again, looks great and keep up the new ideas.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
No power booster would fit, not even hydroboost.
Want to bet?
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VancoPBS View Post
Want to bet?
Not with you...

The GM hydroboost did not fit, and the vacuum booster did not have a chance. A 45 degree adapter (a la Bronco) would put the whole mess into the hood.

There is about 5 inches of space before the master hits the intake.
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Last edited by gavan; 03-15-2007 at 11:45 AM. Reason: I really should preview my posts for content...
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenyCAR View Post
Awesome build you got going on there. I like it because it is different. I run GM metric calipers on the buggy with a single 1 1/16 master and am swapping to dual 3/4 for independent braking. I too think you will need to downsize but you can always do that when everything else is done and test it out. Question, at ride height, what is the distance from the floor to the bottom of the P on the jeep stamp just behind the fenders? Again, looks great and keep up the new ideas.
I will get some measurements when I get back to it. I know it is not as low as yours, but the build is in a very different direction.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_1994 View Post
Do you have any clearance pics, of the top of the bellhousing, firewall area?

I'm dying to do a belly up, and get the motor as high as possible (without a bodylift). My problem lies with the NP435 behind the 4.0. Its allready up and under my dash.

Awsome build also.

I'm diggin' on that intake.

Doug

I will get some more pics when I get back to working on it, but it is fairly major firewall surgery. I had to cut all the "humps" off of the firewall, it ends up being about 1" from the gas pedal. But I have no floors, so whats a little bit of firewall trimming?

My T19 is way up under the dash and will require a substantial "doghouse" to surround it. The shifter has a nearly 90 degree bend in it to clear the dash. It is also so far forward the D300 will need cable shifters, the Currie Twinstick I have puts the shifters completely under the dash even on the furthest "back" setting.

If you are not planning on lowering your body at the same time, the firewall cuts will not be nearly as severe.

My motor mounts are pretty slick, I will try to post them tomorrow.

Thank you all for the compliments.

gavan
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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My motor mounts are pretty slick, I will try to post them tomorrow.
Cool man, I hear ya on bending the shifter. I got mine almost at a 90 degrees now.

Pics of your motor mounts would be great. I see they are all tube.

Is your oil pan above the bottom of the frame "rail" also?

Doug
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Cool man, I hear ya on bending the shifter. I got mine almost at a 90 degrees now.

Pics of your motor mounts would be great. I see they are all tube.

Is your oil pan above the bottom of the frame "rail" also?

Doug
Yes, the oil pan is at or above the rail Makes it kinda hard to hit it with a rock.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Our friends at JeepSpeed have found out that 4.0 mounts suck. I am hard (re: very hard) on my junk and I dont want my 4.0 breaking its mounting lugs.

So I got some Cherokee JeepSpeed Motor Mounts from MORE and went to fabing them up. Whoops, with the cherokee mounts and the lifted motor, the mounts are kinda hanging in space.

Oh well, nothing a little tube cant fix. By making the motor mounts this way, I am taking a little gem of knowledge I learned from FSAE in college and turing the motor into a little bit of a stressed member. The 700 cast iron chunk should be able to transfer some of the load from the shocks. I don's have room for a hoop over the motor, anyways.

Right sided motor mount:

Nice and easy, nothing to get in the way.



Left Side:

Pain in the ass, and needs to be reworked a little. The stupid steering gets in the way. Maybe I just should not steer it?

PS - I KNOW there are holes in the frame. They are from Steering v1.0. They will be properly sleeved as soon as Steering V154.2 is finalized... no point in fixing it untill I know I don't need the holes.



At least NOTHING should now move this motor.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Now for something fun!

I cant afford a fuel cell. Not with everything else going into this build. Besides, I have a beautiful, armored 21 gal polly tank with a modified in-tank fuel pump.

So, I capped the ends, dropped a 4 inch hole in the top of the tank, and bolted a filler to it.

I "borrowed" the fuel filler, so the fuel cell was free!

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Old 03-19-2007, 06:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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This is where alot of my "castoff" parts come from. In fact, the asshole is borrowing my tires for this picture.

Ah well, I guess you have to forgive friends with cool parts they are willing to share.

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Old 03-19-2007, 09:23 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes, the oil pan is at or above the rail Makes it kinda hard to hit it with a rock.
I bet it'll be hard to wack it with a rock.


Nice motor mounts. I'm gonna look into raising my motor also. Maybe not as high as yours, but enuf to get a belly-up pan.

Thanks for the pics.

Doug
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well, some things take time, and some things take alot of time.

The Jeep is getting done with a glacial slowness.

Here is the firewall clearance. The t19 is very high, and the body is mounted very low. It will take some creative sheetmatal to cover this hole, but nothing too bad.

Sorry about the blurry picture, I had some idiot take the pics



The teal jobbers are the cables for the cable shifter. There is no way to shift this thing - the twinsticks come up under the dash. Hello cable shifters
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Last edited by gavan; 01-11-2008 at 06:02 PM. Reason: eh, t18, t19... whats 1 model difference??
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The motor has been a mess, but I think it is finally DONE.

With the motor raised the the body lowered, the radiator can only go in one spot. I used the original CJ rad and mounted it as high as I could - the cap is in the bulge of the CJ hood.(sorry no pics, rad is in NC, Jeep is in PA)

The upper rad hose would have to go through the a/c compressor. Since I took physics in high school, I remembered two things could not co-exist in the same space.

The Cherokee brackets I had could not simply delete the AC. I went through many, many hours of trying to figure out a way to route my accessory belt. Many borrowed brackets and new ideas in belt routing did not pan out.

I finally made my own low profile AC delete bracket with a shortened belt. Worked like a champ.



With the stock accessory drive and the moved back power steering box, the power steering lines are very short! they just go straight up. I added some slack to them to account for movement.

The intake has worked out well for packaging, I have not fired it up yet. But it sure looks cool.



The next picture really has no good value, but it shows some of the lines. Ignore the bumper jack and the 350 in the background. The hood is trimmed 4 inches. The mount on the front is for an 8274.

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Old 01-11-2008, 06:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The rear of the Jeep has been through many re-designs. The current plan is to run some 10 ga bent to the contours of the stock body (think PSC-like corners). These will be bolted to the frame and easily removable, and reinforced with angle iron.

The design is working pretty well, and is easy to boat tail. I am looking at bringing the rear in about 4 inches on each side. It looks really good with the sides tucked in.



The wheel wells look big in the pictures, but they are just about right in person, and they should fit 37's with no modifications.

Thats about it for tonight.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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No love for the asshole, maybe I should put some pics of those welds or the one of it as a boat.

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Old 01-15-2008, 01:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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When are you gonna bring that POS down here !!!
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Old 01-15-2008, 07:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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When are you gonna bring that POS down here !!!
Ask ye who posted above you about gears and lockers
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