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Old 09-16-2007, 07:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The going way too slow backyard build

Well, I guess it is my turn to share my build up and to get some constructive criticism. I started this project last fall, took a little break over the winter and spring and dove back in back in July. It all started with the pan hard bar hitting the differential bridge. I figured once I moved the frame mount for the pan hard bar then the tie rod would hit the pitman arm when the driver’s side started to compress. Using P&T Jeeps’ front stretch thread for inspiration I relocated the steering box forward last fall/winter. Working outside limited the amount of work I could get done without freezing so I decided to hold off until spring for the remainder of the work.

My goals for the project:
Move the frame side pan hard mount to clear the differential
Move the steering box to clear the tie rod
Move the front axle forward to keep the tires out of the backside of the fenders.
Have everything clear so I can actually wheel again.

I started with the steering box relocation using a lot of information from P&T Jeeps' thread

New Mount:


Box in place:


New cross member is made out of 3”x8”x3/8” C-channel that I cut to be 3”x3”:


This is all the further I got last fall/winter before the weather turned too nasty to work outside without cover.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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In the spring I purchased a set of 36x12.50 TSL bias ply tires which finished off the axle bushing on the pan hard bar. I could not get over 35 mph due to death wobble. I parked the Jeep until I had time to work on it starting in July. Previous wheeling trips with 35” BFG MT’s showed me that I either had to extend the bump stops or trim the fenders. I chose the latter since I was planning to stretch the front a few inches. So, out came the sawzall for a little fender trimming.

Before:


Rough trim on the flare:


Fender marked:

Fender cut:


Door edging to give the fender a finished appearance:


Finished fender:
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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After the fenders were trimmed I began work on moving the axle forward. My goal was to move the axle 4.5”, but as of right now I am at 3.5” since the tie rod was going to hit the pitman arm (guess I didn’t do my math right when moving the steering box last fall).

I began by cleaning of the axle pad:


For my new axle pad that is 3/4" thick (made sure to include a cinder block into the job):


Pad in place:


Here is the bracket for the axle end of the pan hard bar that did not turn out to my liking after some testing today. While compressing the driver’s side the pan hard hit the UCA mount on the passenger side breaking several tack welds. I have thought about it and plan to move the mounting point above the tie rod instead of where it is shown below the tie rod. I feel this will give me a better angle on the pan hard bar that will match the drag link angle.


Pan hard frame mount:






I am thinking about adding a gusset to the front and rear of the mount to counteract forces to the front or rear of the Jeep. Or would I be better off just tying the two plates together and not worry about any other gussets?

Pan hard and drag link angles (just imagine the drag link being installed since I forgot to take a picture before breaking the axle mount):


I am thinking that if I raise the axle side of the pan hard mount then the angle of the pan hard and the drag link will be closer to the same, thus making the two parallel. The only problem is the mounting points will be at different heights. Anyone see an issue with this? I can’t lower the frame side mount due to the differential interference and the tie rod interference when the driver’s side compresses.

I am using Clayton’s hardarm setup for my links since I already had the kit from last summer before I had planned on stretching the Jeep. I just moved the frame mounts forward 3.5” inches to be able to move the axle forward. I can take pictures of the mount location if anyone is interested.
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Old 09-17-2007, 12:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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if you raise the panhard mount on the axle end enough to be parallel, you are going to get in to the frame/radiator with it. I suggest moving it as high as you can before hitting anything at full compression, then getting a flatter pitman arm, or mounting the drag link on top of the pitman arm. good luck
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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looks good luke

nice to see that thing finally grow up
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbyiv View Post
if you raise the panhard mount on the axle end enough to be parallel, you are going to get in to the frame/radiator with it. I suggest moving it as high as you can before hitting anything at full compression, then getting a flatter pitman arm, or mounting the drag link on top of the pitman arm. good luck
I was thinking about moving the axle mount up to where the bolt will just clear the tierod, then look into a flatter pitman arm or a replacement pitman arm that will allow me to run the drag link on top. The other option is to lower the bumpstops so I can lower the frame mount some more. Guess I will play with a few options this weekend and hopefully get something to work. The high steer may turn out to be more of a headache than it is worth.


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looks good luke

nice to see that thing finally grow up
Thanks. It certainly has taken a while. I have the money now, just don't have the time. Back in school I had the time, but not the money.
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the way I ended running it on my 60 with the box moved was a mount about 6" above centerline on the axle, the drag link comes in below the histeer arm and goes on top of the waggy pitman arm. I have some pics in my sig of the histeer on the d-60 (the first few pages are of the d44)
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbyiv View Post
the way I ended running it on my 60 with the box moved was a mount about 6" above centerline on the axle, the drag link comes in below the histeer arm and goes on top of the waggy pitman arm. I have some pics in my sig of the histeer on the d-60 (the first few pages are of the d44)
I see what you did, but you were able to run the tie rod behind the axle. I think I am going to try to lower the frame mount, raise the axle mount, and look into a flatter pitman arm and see if that combination works out. If that does not work then maybe a flat pitman arm with the tie rod in the knuckle over location with the draglink to the hig steer arm will give me the needed clearance. Thanks for the ideas.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Make sure you make the axle side mount for the panhard very strong. Especially if you raise it anymore than what you have right now.


Personally, I would put a waggie pitman arm on it and see what you have before changing you brackets again
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Old 09-30-2007, 06:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Got a little more done this weekend, or should I say redone. I remade the frame mount for the track bar and lowered the mounting point to be closer to the pitman plane as well as getting a Grand Wagoneer pitman arm. I still need to ream out the pitman arm to accept the GM tie rod end, but I haven't had time to make it to the machine shop before they close.

New track bar mount and pitman arm:


Overall relationship of the drag link and track bar:


I know they are not perfectly parallel, but they are a lot closer than what I had before. I am figuring the pitman arm side of the drag link will come up some once the pitman arm is reamed out and installed properly. Right now it is about 3/6" short of being seated all the way on the steering box and the tie rod end just barely fit sto give me enough threads to hold it in place.
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If you are not going to use the high steer for the tie-rod, you might see about putting the old pitman arm back and running the drag link to the tie-rod like you initially planned. I might be wrong but it looks to me like that would have all your angles almost perfect.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I may have to try that and see what type of angles I get and hope the tierod doesn't interfere with the pitman arm end of the draglink.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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dude, i think your histeer arms are upside down. They have that angle cut into the TRE mounting surface to account for the angle of the balljoint axis so your tierod ends are at zero deflection when the tires are straight. Yours in that pic is cocked off to like half deflection just sitting there. but now they're probably reamed the wrong way. oh well.

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Old 10-01-2007, 07:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulkeith View Post
dude, i think your histeer arms are upside down. They have that angle cut into the TRE mounting surface to account for the angle of the balljoint axis so your tierod ends are at zero deflection when the tires are straight. Yours in that pic is cocked off to like half deflection just sitting there. but now they're probably reamed the wrong way. oh well.
Those are Parts Mike arms and they are installed correctly. At least they are installed the only way possible due to the cone washers. I am wondering if maybe the knuckle was not machined to the correct angle with relation to the spindle face. The knuckles were machined my Tim at Shakerbuilt and he may have machined them for a flat arm like what he offers.

I'm not too worried about it now since I have moved the tierod back down to the top of the steering knuckle. I just couldn't get the clearances I needed with the tierod on the high steer arms.
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Do you think or will you be adding any bracing to your frame side panhard mount? I have a similar design and have been trying to think of a way to make it beefier..

Thanks, keep up the good work, its not always easy working outside!
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Old 10-01-2007, 12:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I am going to add a gusset to the front and rear of each bracket as well as box part of the bracket in. Similar to what tweba99 did here:
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