Tell me why I shouldn't (but I'm gonna anyway...)

[_peteyg]

So, I'm looking around my garage and I see I have:

4 Rancho 14" travel remote resi coil-overs.

2 stock Ford Radius Arms out of a '79 F150

A full set of wedges ready to weld onto the axle.

hmmmmm........

What I want to do:

In the front of my TJ I already have a Ford RA setup and it's working pretty well. In the rear I'm sprung-over using RE 1.5" Spring-over YJ springs.

I was (and still am) planning to remove the Jeep coils up front and replace them with the coil-overs. I'm putting tube fenders on, and I thought this was a good time to put them in.

I'm not totally unhappy with the rear, but I have these coil-overs just sitting there....mocking me....

The rear axle is a full width F150 9".

What is stopping me from cutting the spring perches off the axle and welding on the RA wedges? I can fab up a panhard bar for the rear pretty easy, and then I'd have a 3-link with coil-overs in the rear, same as the front. I'm REALLY happy with how well the front works, so why wouldn't I be happy with the rear? The arms are all getting big heims instead of the stock bushing setup I have now.

Why do I want to do all this? I need to take lift OUT of my Jeep. It is WAY too tall, and I want to bring it back down to earth. I'm going to poke the rear coil-overs through the tub, and I don't even mind poking the fronts up through the hood.

So...tell me why it won't work. I'm about to start taking everything apart, and have the urge to start cutting....

I don't need a bunch of link theory, etc. I KNOW radius arms bind. I just want to know if it would work, and what gotchas I could expect from having that setup in the rear vs. the leafs I have in there now. With the spring-over setup, I don't think I'm going to be able to take as much lift out as I want to, but I know I can with coil-overs.

Unless there's some life-shattering revelation about why it won't work (and yes, I KNOW RA's bind), surgery starts this weekend...

[Joel77]

A three link plus panhard front is SO easy to do, similar to polyperformance/genright do, so I think that is a MUCH better option. You can buy heims from midwest controls (ballistic and gravel maker are distributors) or johnny joints / ballistic flex joints.

[charlieboyd65]

Do it and post the build progress.

[IEATRKS84]

do it. subscribed

[crazybluerider]

I've seen a couple of EB's around here with this setup. It looks like it works good. DO IT and post lots of pics. Hell at worst you'll hate but it sounds like its free so what have you got to lose.

[kirbyiv]

The radius arms binding is the least of your worries as far as geometry is concerned. Your anti-squat will be higher than camel cock, causing the rear end to "lift up" when accelerating forward. RA's in the rear are a whole different ballgame than RA's in the front. Will they work, yes. Will they work well, not likely. If you are wanting to drop the jeep down, there are plenty of other ways to do it successfully.

[afisoldier]

Keep the arms as flat as you possibly can, if you can make them longer....do it.

[wheelerpeeler]

Originally Posted by kirbyiv

the radius arms binding is the least of your worries as far as geometry is concerned. Your anti-squat will be higher than camel cock, causing the rear end to "lift up" when accelerating forward. Ra's in the rear are a whole different ballgame than ra's in the front. Will they work, yes. Will they work well, not likely. If you are wanting to drop the jeep down, there are plenty of other ways to do it successfully.

x2

[Cheepin]

Originally Posted by kirbyiv

The radius arms binding is the least of your worries as far as geometry is concerned. Your anti-squat will be higher than camel cock, causing the rear end to "lift up" when accelerating forward. RA's in the rear are a whole different ballgame than RA's in the front. Will they work, yes. Will they work well, not likely. If you are wanting to drop the jeep down, there are plenty of other ways to do it successfully.

X3: Ever see Pat Gremillion's EB with this set up on the rear years ago?It would just bounce when trying to climb.Watch the Rick Russell Colorado videos Also the Moab Exteme really shows it.

[_peteyg]

ok, so I understand that I may experience some wheel hop. I experience that now with leafs. Couldn't this be tuned, to a degree at least, by the coil-vers? I looked up the Pat Gremillion EB, and he was running just plain coils, from what I could find. That seems to be a somewhat different setup than what I am looking at doing. I think I could more easily tune the suspension frequency this way. I could be wrong (and often am).

Also, what if I keep my ladder bar? It's already there...

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I'm still pretty much thinking of trying it...

The radius arms would be extended, and would go all the way to the skid plate, and would use heims.

Also, the wedges would be closer to the centerline of the axle. Think of it like the reverse of how the wedges are mounted on the front, or more accurately, a mirror. On the front, the wedges are angled so that the arms angle in from the axle ends toward the frame. In the rear, they would angle out from more toward the centerline (not much more, but the arms would angle out to the inside of the frame, where the fronts angle in to the outside of the frame). I guess I have to sit down and draw this out...But setting it up is going to be stupid-easy, and if I don't like it, I can easily go back to leaves, or even add upper links...

Yes, I know there are better solutions out there, but I'm mostly broke, and I don't have those "other solutions" laying around my garage. This I have....The money I could spend on some other suspension design is going instead toward a 35-spline spool and 35-spline Moser axles for the 9". The 38's are too much for the 31-spline axles I have now.

I even considered going to the JY and picking up an empty 9" housing and setting it all up on the floor. If I didn't like it, I could just bolt in the leaf-sprung housing. I guess I need to find out how much the JY housing is.

[LucasFury]

Why are you so against a 4-link? ..It's not that much more than a proper 3-link. Slightly more brain-involved labor, a couple more heims, another length of tube, and you're done.

..If you're "not unhappy" with the leaf setup, just go SUA and hock the coilovers. Really, there is (arguably) no reason to run SOA if you don't need the lift it provides.

You're running 38's already, I'm sure your wheelbase could appreciate a couple more inches. Why not grab a couple junkyard XJ packs, and mix em up with your RE YJ's til you have the lift and ride you want. You'd lose the lift, gain some droop, and grow a couple inches all at the same time.

Don't waste your time and money on a gamble when there's plenty of viable options out there. ..Especially if it could be a safety gamble, which it realistically could be since your rig is going to be working against its self on acceleration. Everyone on this forum is constantly urging each other to do things right the first time, we all know it's hard to sit back and wait for the right way to manifest, but that's just part of the game.

Go with a different option.

[Devil Dog]

ya.. i would personally ditch that eb setup.. think you will get too much wheel hop.. do a 4 link.. they have some cheap joints out now.. and they are so much better than leaf springs..

if you really can't do that.. i would just go back to sua, that would lower you down and be the cheapest solution...

[Hucky]

poor mans 3link, didit on a buddys jeep with 14" airshocks it is durable and flexes great but kinda looks like ass.if you wana go cheap on the front use 1 radius arm on the same side as your pumkin, ditch the rear rubber bushing for a heim , then just a lower link w/heims both ends on the oppisite side.

[_peteyg]

Originally Posted by Hucky

poor mans 3link, didit on a buddys jeep with 14" airshocks it is durable and flexes great but kinda looks like ass.if you wana go cheap on the front use 1 radius arm on the same side as your pumkin, ditch the rear rubber bushing for a heim , then just a lower link w/heims both ends on the oppisite side.

The front isn't an issue. It's working well, and I can tune the height with the C/O.

I am just thinking out loud on the rear. I don't mind experimenting, and sometimes my ideas work out pretty well. Everyone told me I was crazy for putting the Ford suspension up front in my TJ, but it works awesome. I'm really happy with it. The rear is ok, too, but the ride height with the SOA is way the hell up there, and I only think I can take about 1.5" out of it. I need more like 3" My wheelbase is already 99" The front is stretched 4" and the rear is already pushed back 2". I can't go back much further without relocating the gas tank, and that isn't an option as long as I need a rear seat (and I do....kids, ya know...). Sure, I could get the GenRight kit for the tank. I think if I get enough gear jobs over the next 6 months, I could swing it, but I'm working on the Jeep now, not 6 months from now.

We talked about the SUA thing, too, and it IS an option, but I sure do like the way I'm setup now with NOTHING hanging below the axle tube except the U-Bolts. But it is on the table. I'm gonna cut the hell out of my fenders until the tires fit, so I'm not really concerned about how low I go. I think I'd be happier with 4-5" of lift, rather than the 8-9" of lift I have now. I'm spacing myself back out to 81" in track width, too, so it should be WAY more stable.

I looked at a triangulated 4-link, and that has merits as well. I could get away without needing a panhard bar, for one, and it wouldn't be any harder to locate the upper links than it would to locate the mounts for the RA's. I'd have to pay a lot more attention to the design before I started, but that's just a thing. Those lower link mounts sure do hang down, though. Probably not any worse than my front RA mounts on the frame.

But the main reason I'm thinking of this, other than the fact that I have everything i need to do it just laying around, is that I like the simplicity of the RA setup very much. Yes, it has limitations, but they can be handled. In the front, it was stupid-easy to setup, and is working well. I can almost see why it would create hop in the rear, but I'm not quite there yet. I still think it would be easy to setup and run. Best solution? No, but also not the worst solution, I don't think.

We'll see. I haven't done ANYTHING, yet, so right now it's all on the table. Money IS an issue, though, and the Jeep IS coming down, so what finally happens will most likely be a compromise between the best solution and the available solution.

[titleguy]

Originally Posted by _peteyg

I looked at a triangulated 4-link, and that has merits as well. I could get away without needing a panhard bar, for one, and it wouldn't be any harder to locate the upper links than it would to locate the mounts for the RA's. I'd have to pay a lot more attention to the design before I started, but that's just a thing. Those lower link mounts sure do hang down, though. Probably not any worse than my front RA mounts on the frame.

Only if you put them there. You can put the lower links at the certerline of the axle as long as you have enough seperation from the uppers, which is all in how you build your truss. Moving the axle end links up will allow you to move your frame end mounts up and still keep flat arm angles.

[bgredjeep]

Since it isn't going to cost you anything but time I'd say give it a shot.

[kirbyiv]

build new spring hangers for the leaves to drop it down (or even pick up a set of flatter leaves from the junkyard) and use a radius arm to build a traction bar to get rid of the wheel hop

[_peteyg]

Originally Posted by kirbyiv

build new spring hangers for the leaves to drop it down (or even pick up a set of flatter leaves from the junkyard) and use a radius arm to build a traction bar to get rid of the wheel hop

Heh...

I have a Sam's Offroad HD Traction bar iin there now, and it works pretty well. I still get hop, though...it's an interesting idea, using an RA as an anti-wrap device...

I like the idea of flatter leaves, but I'm not sure I can get the required amount of drop. The RE1445 springs suppsedly only give 1.5" of lift in the SOA configuration...it sure seems like I have more, though...

[Devil Dog]

if you want more drop, then make the shackles longer.. even mounting them on top of the frame like my fronts... gives you more drop.. and still keeps the ride ht low.. then french mount the solid mount.. sua doesnt hang down much if you do it right.. you can use bolts or square u bolts to keep the nuts up top of the axle..

[angrychairmen]

sounds like an interesting plan
subscribed

[kirbyiv]

Originally Posted by _peteyg

The RE1445 springs suppsedly only give 1.5" of lift in the SOA configuration...it sure seems like I have more, though...

Im pretty sure they ate 1.5" springs plus the lift from SOA'n it, which will give you around 7 inches total. Get some flat leaves and raise the shackle mounts and spring hangers. You are truely gaining nothing by putting radius arms in the back if you set your leaf springs up correctly

[_peteyg]

Originally Posted by kirbyiv

Im pretty sure they ate 1.5" springs plus the lift from SOA'n it, which will give you around 7 inches total. Get some flat leaves and raise the shackle mounts and spring hangers. You are truely gaining nothing by putting radius arms in the back if you set your leaf springs up correctly

Well yeah, I knew that. I meant, I think the 1.5" springs give more than the 1.5" OVER the 5" I get out of the SOA. (I also have a 1" BL in it with a 1" motor mount lift). I'm keeping the BL, because I'm putting in a flat skid that lifts everything up.

I like the idea of putting the shackle mount over the frame. I've seen Pat's setup, and it works well. I also thought about frenching the spring mounts into the frame, and I'm also thinking that I may have enough room to outboard the spring mounts on the outside of the frame. Then I could REALLY tune the spring height.

hmmmmm....lots to ponder.

I started taking it apart tonight.....The process has begun.

Get this:

The last time I went to the Hammers I thought I broke a rear axle shaft. Turns out I broke the SPOOL. Not a mini-spool either. A full spool for a 9" Stripped all the splines right out of it. Axle shaft was fine, zero damage. The splines weren't even stressed. The spool is junk. Weird.....

All this breakage is what motivated me to go down this road in the first place.

[kirbyiv]

if you're REALLY trying to drop it, you dont need that body lift to keep the flat skid, you just gotta trim a little out of the floor.

[_peteyg]

I'm not really interested in cutting the body for the tranny. Then I have to work out linkage issues, etc. I already have enough on my plate. There are other things I like about the body lift. I use the space between the frame and body to store various things. It's handy. There's a lot of reasons to not take it out.

I'm already leaning away from the RA idea (although I really, really want to do it...). I'll go to the JY this weekend and see if I can source some flat springs.

Tomorrow night I get to take the Detroit out of the front and take it apart to find out how badly it is broken. I can get replacement parts, but first I need to know what exactly broke. Then I need to take the steering apart, and the front RA's need to come out so I can tube them and put heims on 'em.

The list goes on...

But it's still all coming apart this week. It's nice to know I only need a spool for the rear. I'm happy that the Alloy USA 31-spline shafts held up.

[LucasFury]

Originally Posted by _peteyg

There are other things I like about the body lift. I use the space between the frame and body to store various things. It's handy.

..Do tell.