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Old 11-20-2011, 06:41 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gtxracer View Post
Couple things I've noticed and wanted to add or change to the build so far:

#1, I want a cage. A full cage, probably fastback style. If I'm able to fab my own 1.5" die, I'll do the design and bends myself. I also want to hit the tub with bedliner before final installation and have frame tie-ins.

#2, I kind of want boatsides using tube like rock mafia did on the "still a jeep" build in hardcore. I won't be making the frame rails straight like he did but it should be possible. My only snag is how I'm going to incorporate rubber/poly body mounts into it but I have some ideas. If anyone has insight into this let me know.

#3 I don't want a spare on the Jeep. I drag my spare to and from the trail every time and I've only needed to use it once when I got swamp shit in my bead. I got beadlocks now, shouldn't be a problem and it will save me 200lbs plus the tube work for a tire carrier. Simple rear bumper with 2" hitch should do the trick.

#4 A high pinion 44 front with dana 30 outers is in the plans right now. I'll need to get new inners from RCV, they quoted me $340 and I'd have my 27 spline inners laying around. I want to see if anyone has some 30 spline inners they want to trade since I'd rather use a real 44 locker or at least be able to use one down the road. Some people will say this is a waste of time and the 30 isn't worth it but if I do this right I can hack off the 30 inner Cs down the road and weld on the dana 60 Cs I have in the shop when I'm ready for tons.

#5 After the hp44 goes in, 37s will go on. I'll run that tire size for a while. Until then, 35 krawlers are where it's at! I'll do everything I can to get some in 37 blues!

Let me know what you guys think.
HP d44 with 30 outers would still leave you with D30 ball joints. Hp d44 with jana 50 kit and d50 ttb knuckles, machined d50 ttb outers to use d44 spindles and brakes but have much stronger outer c's and king pins would be a sick axle that still has massive ground clearance.

Something like Spidr's 509 hybrid axle but with the Hp d44 center section instead of the 9" he used: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...1009725&page=3
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:49 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I want to see what you do for your shifter. I will be doing a similar swap in the future and the shifter clearance, or lack there of, was kinda throwing some codes in my thought process..

My drivetrain post swap will be 2.5L , ax5 BH, Ford NP 435 to 23 spline NP231. I think it will really help on the trails but I'll probably have to go to 35's for on road RPM's since I already have 4.88's....

OH! Im looking into adding a flywheel ring at the same time too....
It will be well documented and very simple, like the one a page back. Keep an eye out

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HP d44 with 30 outers would still leave you with D30 ball joints. Hp d44 with jana 50 kit and d50 ttb knuckles, machined d50 ttb outers to use d44 spindles and brakes but have much stronger outer c's and king pins would be a sick axle that still has massive ground clearance.

Something like Spidr's 509 hybrid axle but with the Hp d44 center section instead of the 9" he used: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...1009725&page=3
D30 balljoints that have yet to fail me...in 2 years. I even used the crappy Auto Zone ones from Duralast, not Spicer. On 35s-37s and the wheeling I do right now, no need for that. Jana 54 kit...for what??? Waste of money until I'm blowing out gears. Guys run 40s on hp44s and blow shafts, not gear sets. I already have BJ 60 inner Cs when I want to go 1 ton outers. Until then, no need to even run 44 stuff.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:38 PM   #78 (permalink)
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D30 balljoints that have yet to fail me...in 2 years. I even used the crappy Auto Zone ones from Duralast, not Spicer. On 35s-37s and the wheeling I do right now, no need for that. Jana 54 kit...for what??? Waste of money until I'm blowing out gears. Guys run 40s on hp44s and blow shafts, not gear sets. I already have BJ 60 inner Cs when I want to go 1 ton outers. Until then, no need to even run 44 stuff.
You haven't blown out the gears on your HP30 yet either, so upgrading to an HP44 center section, plus upgrading your inner axles would only gain you a larger range of gear to run. A hybrid 44/60 woud be a cool end result, that I'm interested in seeing you do since you already have the outers, but since you would have to retube the axles anyways why not add the d60 outers to the killer D30 you're already running for now, and then change the center section if you start grenading gear sets?

On a side note, if you would like to sell the RCV shafts as a complete set PM me with a price, as I was thinking about buying those same axles next month with my Christmas bonus check.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:24 PM   #79 (permalink)
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You haven't blown out the gears on your HP30 yet either, so upgrading to an HP44 center section, plus upgrading your inner axles would only gain you a larger range of gear to run. A hybrid 44/60 woud be a cool end result, that I'm interested in seeing you do since you already have the outers, but since you would have to retube the axles anyways why not add the d60 outers to the killer D30 you're already running for now, and then change the center section if you start grenading gear sets?

On a side note, if you would like to sell the RCV shafts as a complete set PM me with a price, as I was thinking about buying those same axles next month with my Christmas bonus check.
You can't read I'm eventually going to 37 and 40s in the probable future and a hp30 gear set will NOT last forever on krawlers. Big tube 8 lug hp44 would not have to be retubed...and I can't believe you just said put 60 outers on a d30.

edit: 3/4 ton hp44s are 3" OD tubes and all kingpin 60 inner Cs have 3.125 ID...but I have BJ 60 knuckles so I'll have to check on this. Doesn't really matter because if I find a ford HP60 for anything less than $600 I'll probably take it. They pop up from time to time here
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:42 PM   #80 (permalink)
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You can't read I'm eventually going to 37 and 40s in the probable future and a hp30 gear set will NOT last forever on krawlers. Big tube 8 lug hp44 would not have to be retubed...and I can't believe you just said put 60 outers on a d30.
I can read perfectly fine. You stated that you haven't had any ball joint problems so far, so why should you upgrade them, I replied that you haven't had any ring and pinion problems so far, so why should you upgrade those.

I realise the ring and pinion wouldn't live long with 40's, but neither will the ball Joints running D30 outers like you mentioned.

There are a lot of hybrid axle combos I've seen people build on here, but bigger heavier diffs, with tiny outers and knuckle is not the way I normally see anyone do it, so yeah, an HP D30 with 60 outers makes much more sense to me than an HP D44 with D30 outers and ball joints that barely live with 35" tires while you want to run 37" or 40" tires.

Good luck with your build, and I'll make sure not to offer anymore stupid ideas from now on.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:59 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I can read perfectly fine. You stated that you haven't had any ball joint problems so far, so why should you upgrade them, I replied that you haven't had any ring and pinion problems so far, so why should you upgrade those.

I realise the ring and pinion wouldn't live long with 40's, but neither will the ball Joints running D30 outers like you mentioned.

There are a lot of hybrid axle combos I've seen people build on here, but bigger heavier diffs, with tiny outers and knuckle is not the way I normally see anyone do it, so yeah, an HP D30 with 60 outers makes much more sense to me than an HP D44 with D30 outers and ball joints that barely live with 35" tires while you want to run 37" or 40" tires.

Good luck with your build, and I'll make sure not to offer anymore stupid ideas from now on.
Don't get your panties in a wad...

The balljoints are living fine, as I said earlier. This is why I said you couldn't read...

"tiny" outers is a pirate-ism. Run what you need, not what sounds cool on the internet. If I'm not blowing balljoints, why would I go through the asspain of changing my lug pattern and buying new wheels? Not only that, I'd be running a 1 ton axle on thirtyfuckinfives when my polished turd runs it fine. So I'd either be spending money on new wheels AND tires now or buying wheels now and then again when I get bigger rubber. Not smart.

While I get you're trying to help, it's way out of my means and would be a waste of time that I could spend wheeling. hp44 + 30 outers with RCVs = bulletproof axle with a "weak link" being the balljoints. Wanna know when I see balljoints fail? When guys drive on broken u joints or shafts and the two pieces try to pass each other and it pulls the ball out of the socket. Balljoints are pretty easy to replace, if I get tired of doing them I'll glue on the 1 ton outers. Pretty simple really.

Try not to believe all the bullshit here. 1/2 the builds on here are to be cool and hang with the joneses. Harsh reality but it's true. Guys throw all kinds of cash at their rig to make it a KOH car or hardcore trail rig but never even challenged their rig on 1/4 ton axles. I'm not building the shit out of my jeep to stare at it in the garage because it's too fuckin big to take to the trails around here. Build your own and quit yer bitchin at me for doing shit the way i want
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:19 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was bitching at you. I'll check it out as you build it, I'm interested to see how well it works.

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Old 11-23-2011, 08:49 PM   #83 (permalink)
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"tiny" outers is a pirate-ism. Run what you need, not what sounds cool on the internet. If I'm not blowing balljoints, why would I go through the asspain of changing my lug pattern and buying new wheels? Not only that, I'd be running a 1 ton axle on thirtyfuckinfives when my polished turd runs it fine. So I'd either be spending money on new wheels AND tires now or buying wheels now and then again when I get bigger rubber. Not smart.

While I get you're trying to help, it's way out of my means and would be a waste of time that I could spend wheeling. hp44 + 30 outers with RCVs = bulletproof axle with a "weak link" being the balljoints. Wanna know when I see balljoints fail? When guys drive on broken u joints or shafts and the two pieces try to pass each other and it pulls the ball out of the socket. Balljoints are pretty easy to replace, if I get tired of doing them I'll glue on the 1 ton outers. Pretty simple really.
my question is, why even go through the hassle of building this 44/30 hybrid, only to change it out down the road? like youve already said, youre not breaking r&p's nor balljoints ... id stick to your original plan

then, after youve wheeled the living piss out of it on 35's and want a new challenge, you can go to the 44 w/ 60 outers and 37s.

just seems like a big waste of time/money? to me when you could be out wheelin instead of fuckin with it
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:15 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Couple things I've noticed and wanted to add or change to the build so far:

#1, I want a cage. A full cage, probably fastback style. If I'm able to fab my own 1.5" die, I'll do the design and bends myself. I also want to hit the tub with bedliner before final installation and have frame tie-ins.

I'd do 1 3/4". 1.5" is for small buggies, suk's, and exo's IMO. Or at least make the main sections 1 3/4". I wish i never bedlined a damn thing. Paint is cheap and easy to touch up and when the inevitable future mods happen you don't have to grind all that stank ass shit off.

#2, I kind of want boatsides using tube like rock mafia did on the "still a jeep" build in hardcore. I won't be making the frame rails straight like he did but it should be possible. My only snag is how I'm going to incorporate rubber/poly body mounts into it but I have some ideas. If anyone has insight into this let me know.

Boatsides for the win. But i'd hard mount. I didn't notice a damn difference in noise/vibe.

#3 I don't want a spare on the Jeep. I drag my spare to and from the trail every time and I've only needed to use it once when I got swamp shit in my bead. I got beadlocks now, shouldn't be a problem and it will save me 200lbs plus the tube work for a tire carrier. Simple rear bumper with 2" hitch should do the trick.

I got a spare halfway through the season and never used it since the inner airlocks. Only brought it once. I'm thinking for next season of just making a simple little mount that goes to the hitch that i can drop off and leave at camp or may just wait till i trailer the heep.

#4 & #5 A high pinion 44 front with dana 30 outers is in the plans right now. I'll need to get new inners from RCV, they quoted me $340 and I'd have my 27 spline inners laying around. I want to see if anyone has some 30 spline inners they want to trade since I'd rather use a real 44 locker or at least be able to use one down the road. Some people will say this is a waste of time and the 30 isn't worth it but if I do this right I can hack off the 30 inner Cs down the road and weld on the dana 60 Cs I have in the shop when I'm ready for tons.

After the hp44 goes in, 37s will go on. I'll run that tire size for a while. Until then, 35 krawlers are where it's at! I'll do everything I can to get some in 37 blues!

Ghey Why waist all that time and money. A 2 minute search shows a hp kp 60 next door to ya.

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Let me know what you guys think.
Anyway, there's my 2 cents.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:01 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was bitching at you. I'll check it out as you build it, I'm interested to see how well it works.
No worries

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my question is, why even go through the hassle of building this 44/30 hybrid, only to change it out down the road? like youve already said, youre not breaking r&p's nor balljoints ... id stick to your original plan

then, after youve wheeled the living piss out of it on 35's and want a new challenge, you can go to the 44 w/ 60 outers and 37s.

just seems like a big waste of time/money? to me when you could be out wheelin instead of fuckin with it
The only thing that would really change is the outers. This is just the cheapest route for me right now, not necessarily set in stone.

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Anyway, there's my 2 cents.
1.75" would be nice but in order to get the proper CLR you'll need a 4.5 or 5.5. If I can find someone that will let me borrow their die I can try it. Bedliner is worth it to me because of all the crap I throw in the bed and it would be nice to have some grip on the floor too. If the tranny tunnel comes out the way I want it, I shouldn't have to modify it very much in the future. Good eye on the KP60, that's a good deal. I'm away from home unfortunately. Last time there was the same style axle for $600 on one of the local forums and I wasn't there to snatch it

All in all, if I find a cheap hp60, I'd take it. Then again, I never intended for this Jeep to be bigger than 37s and a mild wheeler and trail runner. I want a buggy for the crazy shit
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:24 PM   #86 (permalink)
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FYI I've seen a bunch of failed D30 outers. Not broken balljoints directly, but mangled inner Cs. They're not nearly braced well enough for the leverage on them. They might live with some decent gussets, but Its not a risk I would personally take.
Rubicon 44s are just a d30 with a bigger ring gear and they seem to hold all right, but I've held in my hands a couple of blown gear sets from them, front and rear from an LJ running 36s. If you put some time into it you could make a decently cheap upgrade, and still keep your bolt pattern, but I think you're honestly wasting your time on the 30....Just my .02
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:45 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info spidr. What kind of situations caused the failures?

Rubi 44s are low pinion 44s and I wouldn't waste my time on one. I want a high pinion 44 from a Ford f250 if I were to do this swap. Bracing and gusseting the Cs should make them last a long time. This isn't a comp rig and I have yet to see a grenaded d30 knuckle or inner C. Not gonna throw 1 tons under my rig for 35s and I'm a crawler, not a rock bouncer. I'll be fine but thank you and everyone else for the advice. I'd rather put the big sticks under a buggy with some HP.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:22 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I've seen broken a broken rear gear set as well though, it was a broken pinion. Same rig.

The failures are usually abuse to be fair, but it's not as if they're that uncommon. The upper half of the inner c basically opens up and pulls the balljoints apart. I've seen the same thing out of a d44 once, but it was a very well used rig. On the 30s of seen bent knuckles on rigs running as small as 33s, basically stock drivetrain. Only takes one real good bad bounce and its game over.

If I hadn't of gone the route I did I was toying with the idea of a 44 or 9" center chunk, and put Dodge unit bearing ball joint knuckles on it. 35 spline locker and you could run stock 60 inner and a shortened shaft on the other side, no hubs to fail, and they're basically give away axles. Without the hub in the middle you could run a 1" thick spacer adapter and get it down to your bolt pattern even until you stepped up to a bigger diff in the rear. Just thinking out loud of course, but for the money of messing with the 44, why not build something upgradeable. Your RCVs are likely worth almost what it would cost to put it together.(if you're able and willing to put it together of course)
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:59 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I looked into what you said Spidr, but those axles are kinda rare up here it seems and most dodge 60s go for the same or more than super duty 50/60s. I've seen the Dana 50s go for $150-$300 here complete so if/when I see another one I'll pick it up. They can be easily redrilled to 5 on 5.5 or 8 on 6.5. A super 88 kit in my 8.8 would give it a 5 on 5.5 pattern and can handle 37s. I wouldn't mind running a hp44 chunk and the 50/60 outers if I had the time and all the parts.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:10 PM   #90 (permalink)
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If you see an extra 50 go for that cheap, then let me know. While I have a great lead on all the hard parts for a 44/50/60 hybrid, I still might be interested. It just all depends. For that kind of price I wouldn't mind just having one sitting around.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:25 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Will do, I'll keep my eye out when I get home.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:31 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Drew this the other day, it's my gas tank skid I'll be fabbing. I got tired of trying to find one locally and I think it's dumb to spend $200+ on a skid. The base of this is 10g (1/8") and I'll do most of the bends with my 20t press. The other bends will have to be done on my workbench with clamps. Hopefully only 1 or 2 pieces will actually have to be cut and welded. The bottom will have the dimple from my stock skid grafted into it and will also have 16g plate on it to make the total thickness about 3/16". I'll be using 1/4"-1/2" UHMW for the bottom to help it slide over rocks and stumps. Since I have a 1" body lift I'll tuck the tank up 1 to 1 1/2" and it will also have the dimple for the tank mod. I will probably mold the tank in the stock skid first then finish it in this one. All the big holes are dimple dies, I'll use my 1 3/4" die for most of them and the flat strips are 1/8" strips that will give it a little reinforcement.

If you have any questions let me know, the design came out well considering I'm not in front of the skid right now.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:25 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I'm back, scored a Warn tank skid for 75 bucks so I'm gonna run that instead. It will save me a lot of time instead of fabbing one from scratch.

I also got a anti rock bar and bushings from hurley, just need to fab some arms. Anyone have a good method or some tips on how I should go about this?
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:05 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I got started on the TJ again today. I mainly wanted to finish the crossmember and start on a few smaller side projects I needed if I had time.

First I wanted to know the angle of the frame. For anyone else wondering, it's about 9-10 degrees.


There's a couple different ways to do it but that one helped justify my measurements. I clamped the frame mounts in place then measured between the two outside edges to get the two inner fishmouth distances. If this doesn't make sense let me know and I can explain it further.

Then I cut the first side. Came out rough...lost some of my touch while I was away. Second one came out cleaner (pictured)



It fit pretty well. The gaps aren't perfect but I also don't have a notcher. It still came out good.


Measured more and more and more and more to get a final piece. I'll leave it tacked for now in case I make any changes.


You can see the angle here:


I also experimented with getting the front UCA mount done...but it didn't come out too well. Oh well, good learning I guess!





Need opinions and experience: should I put another bushing on the trans mount to the crossmember? Is it really needed?
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:04 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Picked up the Warn skid, previous owner cut out part of it already to clear his diff. Coincidentally it's the same portion I would have cut out anyway. Crappy pic but whatever-


I drew out the UCA mounts for the rear truss


Cut em out then tacked them together. This is a tip I picked up from Pirate


Started grinding them down


Cleaned them up so they're all the same


Then started drilling holes. I used a 9/16" hole saw since I didn't have a bit. Looks like I'll be buying one anyway because it grenaded after the 2nd hole. Completely smoothed out the hole saw


But the first set came out nice
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:41 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Today I had some time to start on the "new" skid. I had to take off some material in order to maintain clearance with the diff and then add material for the bump. I really hope I get 4-5" with this mod or I'll have to stretch the front more than I wanted. Oh and I got the plasma working a little better.
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:04 PM   #97 (permalink)
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No real reason to run a trans mount isolator when your running them on the frame side. You can if you wish.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:06 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wushaw View Post
No real reason to run a trans mount isolator when your running them on the frame side. You can if you wish.
Thank you for your input. I think I'll run one just in case.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:55 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gtxracer View Post
I have a fantastic girlfriend



Today I had some time to start on the "new" skid. I had to take off some material in order to maintain clearance with the diff and then add material for the bump. I really hope I get 4-5" with this mod or I'll have to stretch the front more than I wanted. Oh and I got the plasma working a little better.
Gotta love Harbor Freight!
Great job on the build thus far!!!

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Old 12-29-2011, 06:29 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Gotta love Harbor Freight!
Great job on the build thus far!!!
Thank you Yeah she knows the secret about HF: it's all cheap!

Picked up some goodies from the local welding and metal supply. Tomorrow I get to continue to work on the jeep. I should have a solid 12 hours tomorrow and saturday to crank out some good shit
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