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Old 07-26-2012, 03:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Relay help

This is gonna be long so bear with me. The other day I was driving my jeep an all worked well (1980 cj5 with 91 4.0) and I pulled into my parking space an tried to turn the key off. No dice, it was stuck in the on position. No problem I thought, I'll just flip the kill switch (completely disconnects positive side of battery). Well I come back out and the jeep won't fire. It turns over but won't fire. And I notice my fuel pump isn't coming on. In a moment of desperation I decided to bypass my auto shutdown relay and fuel pump relay. Bingo, fuel pump works but still no firing. I end up towing the jeep home. I force the ign switch to turn and it acts normal, just stiff. Still nothing. Well, fast forward to today and I'm trying to rewire the two relays and like a tard I had just cut and twisted the wires. I tried to rewire the relays according to the wiring diagram but don't know where to put the wires on the relay. I've tried every combo I can think of and I still get the same response, no fuel pump and all it does I turn over. First I need to be sure I have the relays right, so what numbers do I put the wires on? Typical relay with 85, 86, 30...just a cheap 5 pin relay. And secondly, wtf else can I check? I've tried everything? I know the relays work as I can make them "click" but I don't think I'm doing it right. Please help before I set the bitch on fire. Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343342421.304830.jpg
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Doesn't it sound more like an ignition switch issue? The one at the base of the column operated by the little rod.
What, us Willys guys ain't smert enuff fer ya!
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Doesn't it sound more like an ignition switch issue? The one at the base of the column operated by the little rod.
What, us Willys guys ain't smert enuff fer ya!
I'm not opposed to it being an ignition switch issue (not tumbler) but until I know I have the relays right I can't really diagnose that. And yes, I almost posted this in the willys forum but it's not a willys so I figured I'd try and get it in the correct section atleast. You are talking to a guy that just went cutting and splicing wires , which is known to be no-no number one. I r tard.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Anybody?
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What about putting the wires back together and work with the fuel pump for starters. Can you run a jump from the battery to the pump, just to see if it kicks on?
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What about putting the wires back together and work with the fuel pump for starters. Can you run a jump from the battery to the pump, just to see if it kicks on?
When I bypassed the solenoid the pump would come on so I know the pump is still good. And I know the relay is good. Since the pump wouldn't come on before I bypassed the solenoid but it worked before the switch froze, I'm fairly certain the switch is no bueno, I am just trying to eliminate the things I know aren't correct, like my relay rewiring. I've wondered if the CPS is bad too but it's new.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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30 is 12 volts in
85 is switched 12 volts
86 is ground
87 is to load aka FP or whatever

The ECM will not energize the ASD/FP relay without a crank signal. The fact that you can bypass the FP relay and make the pump run suggests the ECM is not seeing that crank signal. Or that the ECM is not seeing the 12 volts in crank/run. Check the ECM fuse and the ignition switch adjustment.

Have you checked for spark yet ?
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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30 is 12 volts in
85 is switched 12 volts
86 is ground
87 is to load aka FP or whatever

The ECM will not energize the ASD/FP relay without a crank signal. The fact that you can bypass the FP relay and make the pump run suggests the ECM is not seeing that crank signal. Or that the ECM is not seeing the 12 volts in crank/run. Check the ECM fuse and the ignition switch adjustment.

Have you checked for spark yet ?
Have not checked for spark since I doubt the ASR is wired correctly. That pin info is exactly what I was looking for, thank you for that. As for the ECM, I kinda figured that the ECM was pissy since I was unable to turn the ign switch to the off position and had instead just cut off power via the kill switch. I am unsure if the ecm requires the off position to "reset" or anything. I've got the batt completely disconnected at the moment and hope that will reset the ecm and I can try again with the relays connected correctly.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Have not checked for spark since I doubt the ASR is wired correctly. That pin info is exactly what I was looking for, thank you for that. As for the ECM, I kinda figured that the ECM was pissy since I was unable to turn the ign switch to the off position and had instead just cut off power via the kill switch. I am unsure if the ecm requires the off position to "reset" or anything. I've got the batt completely disconnected at the moment and hope that will reset the ecm and I can try again with the relays connected correctly.
Who are you and what have you done with the REAL Rooney77 ?

The REAL Rooney77`s posts were colorful, vulgar and entertaining to read. Now we get this nice guy shit with a boring rhetoric of etiquette.

Old Rooney77
My ignition switch fucked up and the damn thing would`nt turn off. So I hit the kill switch on the bitch. Now the fucker won`t run. I hacked into the wiring and am now all screwed up on how to hook up the fucking relay. Any of you assholes help me out ?

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Old 07-27-2012, 08:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Who are you and what have you done with the REAL Rooney77 ?

The REAL Rooney77`s posts were colorful, vulgar and entertaining to read. Now we get this nice guy shit with a boring rhetoric of etiquette.

Old Rooney77
My ignition switch fucked up and the damn thing would`nt turn off. So I hit the kill switch on the bitch. Now the fucker won`t run. I hacked into the wiring and am now all screwed up on how to hook up the fucking relay. Any of you assholes help me out ?

My bad.

My hunk of shit cj had the goddamn ign switch fucking freeze. I attempted to unfreeze with my mexican speed wrench and now the piece of shit won't crank. I think the relays went all gay and decided to shit the dick and that may be the problem.

That better.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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My bad.

My hunk of shit cj had the goddamn ign switch fucking freeze. I attempted to unfreeze with my mexican speed wrench and now the piece of shit won't crank. I think the relays went all gay and decided to shit the dick and that may be the problem.

That better.
Whew, I was worried for a while.

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Old 07-27-2012, 11:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Glad I could help.


Now I'm just trying to decipher your info with the diagram. God a fucking hate dicking with wiring.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Here's a better pic.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Ya know the relay has the circuit numbers by the pins. Extrapolate those numbers to the PDC cavities and start probing for ground, 12v etc.

If you get really fucked up I can look at my spare harness and do the hard work for you.
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ya know the relay has the circuit numbers by the pins. Extrapolate those numbers to the PDC cavities and start probing for ground, 12v etc.

If you get really fucked up I can look at my spare harness and do the hard work for you.
I'll be working on it tomorrow morning. I'll keep ya updated. I appreciate the help.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So Rooney, did you fix it ?
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:04 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Nope. This was supposed to be my first "jeep" weekend in a while and those plans got way layed. I had a buddy whose state side decide to come visit. So I'll be trying to fix the jeep after work this week. I'll keep ya updated.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I can take a picture of the bottom of my PDC that shows wire colors/location if that`ll help.

Take cash, credit, paypal or something from the Chest/Butt thread.

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Old 07-30-2012, 06:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I can take a picture of the bottom of my PDC that shows wire colors/location if that`ll help.

Take cash, credit, paypal or something from the Chest/Butt thread.

I'll keep that in mind.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Alright I'm about to pull my fucking hair out. After standing on my head in this heat and replacing the ign switch (electrical not cylinder) there is no change. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with it. I can't get the fuel pump to cycle with the switch. Please please tell me which wire to put where. I'm about 2 seconds from rolling it to the curb and paying the city to haul it off. Here are the actual wires I have:

yellow, orange/green (spliced between both relays), orange/black, pink/yellow (spliced between both relays)

same colors except instead of orange/black there are two green/blacks

Worst part is that I've got the first meeting of my 4wd club tomorrow and I'd like to take the damn thing. I got nominated to reinstate the local chapter. Dammit FML.


edit: Well fucking motherfuck piece of shit goddammit. I got the bright idea to plug my scanner in and see what it says. The scanner would recognize it's an obd1 chrysler then would try to scan and all it would do is scream at me and say the computer wasn't responding. Sounds to me like the ecu bit the dust. Mother fucker.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rooney77 View Post
Alright I'm about to pull my fucking hair out. After standing on my head in this heat and replacing the ign switch (electrical not cylinder) there is no change. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with it. I can't get the fuel pump to cycle with the switch. Please please tell me which wire to put where. I'm about 2 seconds from rolling it to the curb and paying the city to haul it off. Here are the actual wires I have:

yellow, orange/green (spliced between both relays), orange/black, pink/yellow (spliced between both relays)

same colors except instead of orange/black there are two green/blacks

Worst part is that I've got the first meeting of my 4wd club tomorrow and I'd like to take the damn thing. I got nominated to reinstate the local chapter. Dammit FML.


edit: Well fucking motherfuck piece of shit goddammit. I got the bright idea to plug my scanner in and see what it says. The scanner would recognize it's an obd1 chrysler then would try to scan and all it would do is scream at me and say the computer wasn't responding. Sounds to me like the ecu bit the dust. Mother fucker.
Does the CEL come on when you turn the key to on ?

If so you can check for codes. If not then the bulb is burnt out or the ECM has taken a dump.

BTW I have an ECM (XJ) avaliable. Or you can use one from any XJ so long as it doesn't have the factory security system. Maybe a club member has one.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I've got no check engine light. I never wired it up when I did the motor swap. At this point, all I can tell you is that the scanner can't read the ecu. I'm seriously disheartened at this point. I had figued at worst case it was the CPS. But it's seeming it's gonna be the retarded ECU. Dammit, I wish somebody more electrically smart than I lived near by. If my jeep had a heart, I'd punch it in the balls. Dammit.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I've got no check engine light. I never wired it up when I did the motor swap. At this point, all I can tell you is that the scanner can't read the ecu. I'm seriously disheartened at this point. I had figued at worst case it was the CPS. But it's seeming it's gonna be the retarded ECU. Dammit, I wish somebody more electrically smart than I lived near by. If my jeep had a heart, I'd punch it in the balls. Dammit.
If the scanner isn`t reading and you did`nt wire up the CEL then at this point, your fucked.

You could try throwing in a CPS or reading between the terminals on the one you have with an ohm meter to see if it is bad.

Pin 1 to 2 should be around 100 ohms.
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