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Old 01-27-2006, 06:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Concern over Positive Camber on Dana 44

I recently purchased a front axle for my CJ7 from a mail order shop, it is a Dana 44, supposed to be cut to TJ width. The issue I have with it is that it seems to have excess positive camber. The lower portion of the tires angle in closer to one another than the top of the tires. Does anyone have any experience with this issue? Was the axle simply built wrong or is there a in the carriers to adjust slightly how the steering knuckles are oriented? Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give.
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Mine does this too, have not had any problems while driving it. I would also be interested in if this is normal, or something to be corrected. Mine is from a 77 chevy and has been narrowed. The knuckles are from a 73 chevy and it has high steer etc with the 5 lug conversion using ford hubs mounted on the skinny early chevy spindles.
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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They make shims to adjust the camber.
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Old 01-27-2006, 09:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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about the only way for the camber on it to be off would be to bend the housing , if the camber is that noticeable (ie without an allignment machine or at least a tape measure ) you have a problem (probably a bent housing )
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Old 01-27-2006, 10:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't agree it has to be bent. If you're using Chevy parts and putting it on a Jeep. It will have positive camber unless you use camber shims. I had tio use 1/1/2 degree shims to get the camber where it belonged, and nothing was bent.
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Napa sells camber shims for the D44, after I trussed my front axle there was a slight bow in it. Ordered the shims and got is squared away.

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Old 01-28-2006, 06:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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well the tubes are pressed into the housing then the inner c knuckles are pressed onto the tube there isnt much room for it to be off, unless you have an allignment bar to check it how do you know it isnt bent ?
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Old 01-28-2006, 07:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I tend to think that the camber was set up to be the same as it was on the stock axle. That axle was of course much wider and had much more weight on it in stock form than it does now on the jeep. This should have been corrected in the jig so that the camber angle was set properly for the new vehicle, I just don't think that this was done.

I don't think that the housing is bent, the only reason I say that is that I think it would be hard to have it bent equally on both sides (both tires angle the same exact amount). If it was a negative camber issue then I would think that to potentially be the case, I am just not sure how the axle would get bent in a way that would cause positive camber.

Thanks to everyone for the insight and please continue to comment this is very helpful. It sounds like camber shims might be the way I have to go unless the shop agrees to build me a new axle, which is my ultimate hope.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Almost all late model (late 70s and up) D-44 have a caster, camber cam in the top ball joint (pull of the top ball joint nut and look down at it there should be 4 ears next to the ball joint stud) You can get several degrees of caster, camber adjustment from these cams -- You may need to buy a different cam than the one you have in there now to correct it...........
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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That is also very good information to have. It would be great if that was enough to compensate for what I am seeing. Thanks for info.
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If this is going to be used on the street then tire wear would be a concern of course-but for off-road-positive camber can have a good effect on traction.Something about the tire wanting to pulling itself out of a hole .Anyway it depends on the axle design-I've aligned Cherokees by putting shims behind the hub-Fords have an offset bushing in the top balljoint mounting.Anyway I'd leave in some positive camber (within reason) for traction and directional stability issues.
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I cant believe this thread has lasted in "hardcore"
This topic has been covered a million fucking times.


I am beginning to understand why so many of the old skewel guys no longer post.

Take your jeep to an alignment shop and they will fix the problem for you.
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Old 01-28-2006, 11:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueovalyj
Almost all late model (late 70s and up) D-44 have a caster, camber cam in the top ball joint (pull of the top ball joint nut and look down at it there should be 4 ears next to the ball joint stud) You can get several degrees of caster, camber adjustment from these cams -- You may need to buy a different cam than the one you have in there now to correct it...........
Your information is not correct. The caster/camber "cam" your refering to does not allow adjustment of the caster/camber. It is a torque sleeve that adjusts the preload of the ball joints when installing the steering knuckle to the inner axle C. Stock Dana-44 ball joints do not allow for any caster/camber adjustment. That said, they do make ball joints with an eccentric torque sleeve that will adjust like you say, but at the cost of not getting either exactly right. The torque sleeve needs to have 50 ft/lbs of preload, depending on where that 50 lb. point is the eccentric could be in negative camber. IMO the camber shims are the way to go, easy install between the steering knuckle/spindle. The problem described is a pretty common thing that occurs when you mix outer knuckles and housings from different manufacturers (Jeep, Ford, Chevy, Dodge), because they all have different caster/camber specs for their front ends, so one make of knuckle is going to have different specs on another make of housing. Install the camber shims and it will be/look fine.
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Old 01-28-2006, 06:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You're the one with the incorrect information, 4x401cj.

Here's a cut and paste from the Specialty Products website (they do alignment products if you know what those are)

23000
4X4 BUSHING SET (12)

These sleeves will change camber and/or caster from 1/8 degree to 1-1/2 degrees in 1/8 degree increments. Installation requires removal of the upper ball joint stud nut. Break the taper free between the stud and sleeve. Determine the change needed and replace the existing sleeve with the correct one. #4169 spanner socket is required for sleeve removal. Rotate sleeve to fine tune camber/caster adjustment. Available individually and in MasterPaks of 10. One sleeve covers one side of vehicle.

Estimated Installation Time - .5 hr/side
Formerly designated the 7979 Series.
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Old 01-28-2006, 06:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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in a stock axle he is correct the parts your refering to are an aftemarket fix
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Old 01-28-2006, 06:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagburn
You're the one with the incorrect information, 4x401cj.

Here's a cut and paste from the Specialty Products website (they do alignment products if you know what those are)

23000
4X4 BUSHING SET (12)

These sleeves will change camber and/or caster from 1/8 degree to 1-1/2 degrees in 1/8 degree increments. Installation requires removal of the upper ball joint stud nut. Break the taper free between the stud and sleeve. Determine the change needed and replace the existing sleeve with the correct one. #4169 spanner socket is required for sleeve removal. Rotate sleeve to fine tune camber/caster adjustment. Available individually and in MasterPaks of 10. One sleeve covers one side of vehicle.

Estimated Installation Time - .5 hr/side
Formerly designated the 7979 Series.
You should read his post slower. He already said what you posted.

Anyway, I think we all agree that shims are the way to go.
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Old 01-28-2006, 07:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yes-that is what I was referring to as "Ford" type set-up adjustment to the upper ball-joint.The factory actually uses off-set bushings themselves-there is a code on the top of the bushing which tells you the offset.A good alignment shop can set this up fairly accurately,with a little experience and practice it's possible to match up both sides fairly accurately.And to the guy that doesn't think this should be discussed here-if you understand what's going on here it's possible to do alignments yourself at home-just like welding and fabricating and engine building and modifying,why have somebody else do it when you can learn and do it yourself I say.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I dont agree that spindle shims are the way to go -- Ever try to use them on knuckles that have the caliper bracket cast into it --aint gonna work...
Ive used several ball joint cams in my years of alignments and they work great, providing something is not completely bent up......
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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He said they didn't work correctly, which they do. You don't tighten down the adjuster to 50 ft/lbs, you snug it down and back it off 1/4 turn. The nut locks the works down. He also stated the ball joints need to be changed for the adjustment which they do not, the adjuster drops right in.

I've used the shims before- they work fine on axles that don't tilt the spindle relative to the brake brackets, like Ford TTB's do.

Last edited by Slagburn; 01-28-2006 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The guy brings up a good point about brake rotor alignment when using the hub shims.I would only use those when you don't have the option of the upper ball cam.You can get a surprising amount of adjustment from the cams-a couple of degrees can definetly make a big difference.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Definitely want to thank everyone for their insight, you have been incredibly helpful. Sounds as though I have a couple of options.
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Old 01-29-2006, 04:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by joebobgmoney
Definitely want to thank everyone for their insight, you have been incredibly helpful. Sounds as though I have a couple of options.
It's going to depend on what you have for parts for the best way to go.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x401cj
Your information is not correct. The caster/camber "cam" your refering to does not allow adjustment of the caster/camber. It is a torque sleeve that adjusts the preload of the ball joints when installing the steering knuckle to the inner axle C. Stock Dana-44 ball joints do not allow for any caster/camber adjustment. That said, they do make ball joints with an eccentric torque sleeve that will adjust like you say, but at the cost of not getting either exactly right. The torque sleeve needs to have 50 ft/lbs of preload, depending on where that 50 lb. point is the eccentric could be in negative camber. IMO the camber shims are the way to go, easy install between the steering knuckle/spindle. The problem described is a pretty common thing that occurs when you mix outer knuckles and housings from different manufacturers (Jeep, Ford, Chevy, Dodge), because they all have different caster/camber specs for their front ends, so one make of knuckle is going to have different specs on another make of housing. Install the camber shims and it will be/look fine.
this is correct! had pos. camber on my ford hp44 with chevy stuff on the outer knuckles. bought spindle shims made by moog. this is my daily driver. i have no issues with braking or tire wear. the shims work great and are an easy fix. but they are a tad expensive at $20 a shim.
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Old 01-30-2006, 09:15 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cisco
this is correct! had pos. camber on my ford hp44 with chevy stuff on the outer knuckles. bought spindle shims made by moog. this is my daily driver. i have no issues with braking or tire wear. the shims work great and are an easy fix. but they are a tad expensive at $20 a shim.

They make eccentric cams. I have used them and they work well. You can adjust camber AND caster with them.

Your spindle shims only worked because it changed the angle of your caliper stands as well. They will not work if the front does not have spindles or if the caliper mounts to the knuckle (late model cj's, some dodges, etc)

Why is this subject so fucking hard to understand?
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Old 01-30-2006, 09:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by elarsen
Why is this subject so fucking hard to understand?

Thank you, elarsen
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