full independent suspention

[pro_boarder20]

i want fully independent suspention. anyone know about how much it will cost?

[W.O.T.]

one meeeelion dollars.

[jeepinTY]

Shut up, sell your jeep to someone who won't gay it up and go by a damn subaru.

[trkklr77]

**

[crawlin'YJ]

Reported

[pro_boarder20]

im always getting yelled at...

[trkklr77]

you wont see 16 with posts like this.

[pro_boarder20]

sorry im new. i need like help. i need a lesson on whats good and whats bad for a jeep.

[KiGrind]

Putting independent on a Jeep is like sticking your balls in a blender... it has some good things: such as never having kids again. And the rest just blows

[pro_boarder20]

really?? okay thanxs for the information man. yea im new to moding off-road vehicles.

[krdt]

Originally Posted by pro_boarder20

really?? okay thanxs for the information man. yea im new to moding off-road vehicles.

golly, i never would have guessed.

it's perfectly alright to not know something, but don't fall back on your age as some kind of fucking excuse for lacking information. if you don't know about offroad vehicles and modifications, fine, everyone has to start somewhere. age, however, shouldn't have a thing to do with it, and unless you want to be treated like a child, don't expect to get the benefits of "only being a kid". if you don't want to be ridiculed go do some research before you make blind, foolish statements. if an 85 year old comes on here saying he wants independent suspension and racing slicks for rockcrawling he's going to get just as much shit as you... should he reply, "i'm only 85, so my ignorance should be forgiven"?

age doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with anything: intelligence and knowledge aren't dictated by the number of candles on your cake. sure, experience can be gained with age... but it's annoying to see kids hide behind their age instead of just saying, "i'm new at this and i need to learn". when i was 15 i was swapping chevy smallblocks into my cj-7, doing springovers, swapping axles, arguing politics, religion and was as knowledgeable and mature on just about any subject under the sun as someone twice my age. quite frankly i would have loathed to admit my real age and be immediately associated with the preconceptions of idiotic immaturity and lack of intelligence that my peers of the same age exhibited. apparently you want to cloak yourself in those preconceptions rather than defy them... it's safer than having to rely on and be responsible for yourself as an individual. i would have rather cut off my own arm than admit i was 15 and thereby be judged not by my intellect or ability, but my age... much less wallow in it and hide behind it. there are 40 and 50 year old men who know nothing about offroad vehicles and it doesn't correlate in the least to their age. on the same note, there are 40 year old men with the IQs equal to the temperature on a pleasant day. do they say, "take it easy i'm only 40"?

there was a time when i thought an independent suspension was superior just because the name sounded good and i assumed it implied as much, but i researched and learned. i didn't say, "oh, i'm only 12 so forgive my stupidity". that's a weak cop out. it's in essence lowering the expectations people have of you so if you come up short you can say, "well, i told you i was only 15". in closing, learn, research and ask intelligent questions to further that knowledge, don't just hide behind your age as some excuse for why you asked a silly, uninformed question.

[piratebuggy]

There are no dumb questions. And being 15 just means you don't have alot of experience, and asking questions is a good way to learn. There is nothing wrong with asking any question,just be aware that alot of people on this forum are professional smart-asses and do nothing else all day except look for stuff to make fun of. It has the effect of keeping the level of sophistication of the forum up, while still making it appear to be filled with backwoods trailer living hillbillies (no offense to backwoods trailer living hillbillies). And to "krdt" I would say this-if you thought you were so advanced at 15-how advanced do you think you are now? I've most certainly learned alot as I've gotten older-one of those pearls of wisdom -nobody knows everything, some people think they do.

[KiGrind]

Originally Posted by krdt

arguing politics, religion and was as knowledgeable and mature on just about any subject under the sun as someone

So were you one of those kids that hit 15 and "Had life all figured out" and started to think of suicide?


Those kind of kids run around here all the time, all dipshits.

[piratebuggy]

Yeah- I can't believe that someone would actually believe that they were all that impressive at 15. Has it all been downhill from there Einstein-I mean "krdt"?---lol

[krdt]

you must have been too busy jerking off and behaving awkwardly around the opposite sex at 15, eh? for fucksakes we've really backslid these days... a 100 or so years ago a 15 year old might be already married and with a child on the way. well into their own adult life. the point being illustrated, of which you must have both been too average at 15 (likely too average now) to digest, was that age has absolutely _nothing_ to do with it. it's not an excuse for or against... don't use it as such. it's not that a 15 year old isn't just as capable of being mature or intelligent, our standards have just dropped so far we don't bother to look for it or expect it. granted, the current state of public education has much to do with this ever decreasing expectation, but that's a subject for another day. while i might have been the exception for maturity and intelligence of that age, the main point is: that age had not a goddamn thing to do with it. by the way, no, i wasn't one of those "15 year olds who thought they had life all figured out". i was smart enough to know i didn't know nearly enough... i'm still smart enough to know that, sunshine.

[crusty1007]

well no one has really answered his question,
so ill do what i can.

independent suspension is in fact a quality setup (depending on the engineering and fabrication stand point) but to prove my point,most indy cars are independent front and rear. most class 1 score desert buggys are independent front and rear (usually unless other wise noted by "trophy truck" or "truggy". Truggy= half truck half car meaning the motor is still a mid chassis design like a car or buggy but the tranny runs to the front of the vehicle followed by a V-DRIVE (like a boat) and then runs a drive line to the rear straight axle. also class 10 and class 1600 class 9, bla bla

independent suspension does in fact ride smoother (again depending on shock set up car configuration and engineering and fabrication) and this will be proven by lap times(and ur back). look @ a vehicle with straight axle front and rear their lap times are considerably slower in most racing. especially if equipped with leaf packs.

oh and dont mix up independent suspension with a linkage style suspension like on factory TJ jeeps, it will in fact act a little more independent than leaf packs but mostly because of the action the springs take coil verse leafpacks (i beleive but im not an engineer)

the reason people like straight axle is because 1: cost 2: reliability(size) 3: ease of fabricating a good leaf pack or coil setup( not easy but not as difficult as building an a-arm independent buggy and getting all the angles to line up with the CVS and still keeping camber caster bump steer in check)

just to point out a high horsepower 800+ and using lots of wheel travel wich would if on the rocks equal articulation @ some point would need high angle CV's wich run upwards of 1500-2K a piece u need 2 per live axle and if its a 4x4 u will need a grand total of 12K in CVs not including the axles to connect them or the adapter flanges arms heims/uni-balls... bla bla anyways you get the point the cvs are more expensive than 80% of the jack wads jeeps on here.... it can be done though walker evans ( i believe) was in fact running an independent suspended competition rock buggy a while back and was having problems keeping it togeather..?!

any more info if youve got the money check out PORTER RACE cars or KREGER Fabrication, some of the top names in the high speed desert racing, also for more info find contacts on the CORR of road racing website, i know this has nothing to do with rock wagons, but it all in some way cross's over.

[KiGrind]

Originally Posted by krdt

you must have been too busy jerking off and behaving awkwardly around the opposite sex at 15, eh? for fucksakes we've really backslid these days... a 100 or so years ago a 15 year old might be already married and with a child on the way.

We have that now, just no one gets married, and I'm not going to point fingers at the kind of people that do this because it would be very unfair to those who have and are still good people who make damn good livings with what they have.

Its funny because my family has a lot of old people in it that lived in a time were it wasn't uncommen to get married before you were 18, yet none of them talk like this or get on the internet to talk shit.

[Mickey*B]

So, I thought this was the newbie forum - free of flaming??

krdt - Fuck off and go back to jacking off your know it all self and impressing youself, cause your the only one impressed.

[piratebuggy]

Thank you Mickey B-somebody needed to say it. People got married before they were 18 because they only lived to be about 35 average. Oh-but 'krdt' aka Einstein -already knew that-sorry for stating the obvious. Hell for that matter nobody recognized Albert's genius when he was 15. I'll bet he didn't have such an inflated opinion of himself at 15. And as far as my 'average' self-at least I know that everybody learns as they get older. It's the wisdom of age that sets adults apart from youth. Anybody that actually believes they were so above average at that age is a fool.

[piratebuggy]

Quick add-I concur with what 'crusty1007' says. If people will think for a minute here there was a military issue "Jeep" that had independant suspension. From what I've read they work very well off road. As do Hummers (a little on the big side for some things). As does my dunebuggy -all with independant suspension. Actually this 15 year old kid has what alot of people in this forum lack-the ability to think outside the box. Keep thinking up ideas and don't be afraid to bounce them off people.

[krdt]

once again, everyone seems to be missing the twice reiterated point completely. shall we try once more? knowledge, and how it's attained is utterly subjective. of course general knowledge will mostly increase with age, but that doesn't mean age necessarily dictates knowledge. you can have a 12 year old and a 60 year old... the 60 year old never having any exposure to offroading or anything relating to it, and the 12 year old grew up with a fabricator father... should the 60 year old say, "oh, i'm just 60 so give me a break"? no, that would sound ridiculous. such is a clear example of my point that age has very little to do with how much the person knows. especially knowledge about a single subject or hobby.

also, the average life span of people 100 years ago is completely irrespective of the idea being put forth. that 13 and 14 year olds were considered adults to be responsible for themselves and perhaps even their own children is what's to be taken away from the statement. perhaps there are people who still marry at that age, but surely you'd agree the common social idea of "an adult to marry" certainly isn't 15 anymore. it's surely not a general socially accepted practice. today we're lucky if a person is considered an "adult" at 21. we have far too low of expectations of our children today, even to the point of retarding their ability to be self reliant, free thinking individuals.

to the person that said, "anyone that thinks they were above average at that age...", uh, so no one is above average? generally if you _are_ above average, you've got sense enough to know it... but that wasn't even the reason for my statement(s). i guess everyone is the same and only the amount of years you've hung around indicates your knowledge or intelligence. gee, what a boring world that would be.

why do so many have such difficulty with the notion that my post had nothing to do with how "great" i was at 15? in reality it had absolutely nothing to do with me and it's simply demonstrating my point: most of your knowledge and/or ability is governed by intelligence and environment and has very little to do with age. intelligence and maturity are two very different things and yet connected... you might mature with age, but if you're a moron at 15 you'll likely be a moron at 50. for all we might know, the 15 year old might be smarter than all of us on every subject but offroad vehicles.

as an aside, with the information readily available on the internet there is absolutely no reason a 15 year old or someone of _any_ age should be ignorant of a subject or hobby they have interest in, but i'll assume he's just getting to driving age and that he only recently spawned the interest. getting back to repetitively missing the point, i never said him not being informed or having knowledge of something was stupidity or anything of the sort. just don't blame and hide behind your age is the _chief_ fucking point.

[pro_boarder20]

your an ass and get the fuck outta my question. 1 how do you know its even for my dumb questions? 2 if you didnt read earlier IM NEW DUMB ASS. 3 almost every 15 year old is a moron cuz thats what we like to do!! so stay the fuck away from anything i post. oh yea people thanks fro havin my back. im just getting into this and i dont even have my jeep yet. and thanxs for the info i talked to a 4x4er and he gave me the fisics on the fact on everything. so thanxs everyone.

[piratebuggy]

'pro boarder20' is wise beyond his years. Kudos.

[xjbeerwagon]

Originally Posted by krdt

once again, everyone seems to be missing the twice reiterated point completely. shall we try once more? knowledge, and how it's attained is utterly subjective. of course general knowledge will mostly increase with age, but that doesn't mean age necessarily dictates knowledge. you can have a 12 year old and a 60 year old... the 60 year old never having any exposure to offroading or anything relating to it, and the 12 year old grew up with a fabricator father... should the 60 year old say, "oh, i'm just 60 so give me a break"? no, that would sound ridiculous. such is a clear example of my point that age has very little to do with how much the person knows. especially knowledge about a single subject or hobby.

also, the average life span of people 100 years ago is completely irrespective of the idea being put forth. that 13 and 14 year olds were considered adults to be responsible for themselves and perhaps even their own children is what's to be taken away from the statement. perhaps there are people who still marry at that age, but surely you'd agree the common social idea of "an adult to marry" certainly isn't 15 anymore. it's surely not a general socially accepted practice. today we're lucky if a person is considered an "adult" at 21. we have far too low of expectations of our children today, even to the point of retarding their ability to be self reliant, free thinking individuals.

to the person that said, "anyone that thinks they were above average at that age...", uh, so no one is above average? generally if you _are_ above average, you've got sense enough to know it... but that wasn't even the reason for my statement(s). i guess everyone is the same and only the amount of years you've hung around indicates your knowledge or intelligence. gee, what a boring world that would be.

why do so many have such difficulty with the notion that my post had nothing to do with how "great" i was at 15? in reality it had absolutely nothing to do with me and it's simply demonstrating my point: most of your knowledge and/or ability is governed by intelligence and environment and has very little to do with age. intelligence and maturity are two very different things and yet connected... you might mature with age, but if you're a moron at 15 you'll likely be a moron at 50. for all we might know, the 15 year old might be smarter than all of us on every subject but offroad vehicles.

as an aside, with the information readily available on the internet there is absolutely no reason a 15 year old or someone of _any_ age should be ignorant of a subject or hobby they have interest in, but i'll assume he's just getting to driving age and that he only recently spawned the interest. getting back to repetitively missing the point, i never said him not being informed or having knowledge of something was stupidity or anything of the sort. just don't blame and hide behind your age is the _chief_ fucking point.

Blah...blah...blah...

[pro_boarder20]

thanks piratebuggy