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Old 06-12-2007, 01:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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TJ Overheating - share your expertise please

Turning to the PBB experts to get ideas on what's going on with my engine coooling, I know it's as basic a problem as there is, but I really trust you guys:

Alright, I'm overheating big time at low speeds (i.e. offroading). It's a 2000 TJ with a 4.0, stock engine. engine sees about 5,000 miles a year total. engine total mileage is 73K. have A/C but don't run it that often and not when wheelin'. primarily a trail rig but runs on the street to get ice cream, etc.

Last year after wheeling, the water pump went bad, overheated on highway hemeraging coolant, had waterpump and thermostat replaced. fine since until .. .

This year, runs fine on freeway, lately overheats when you stop for gas and restart it. Overheats when you try to go wheeling or low speed city driving. Overheated mem. day when drivin' the wife through the park on a liesurely drive. No coolant leak anywhere. usually dialed into the red zone, sometimes pegged the coolant gauge at max. ambient temp is usually 80 degrees outside. had to park jeep during entire last wheelin' trip

also for about the last year and a half, engine will start very rough when restarting it after running it for a while (i.e. restarting when it's warm or hot). Sounds and acts like its carburated (like it's starving for air or fuel). not sure if this is related or different problem from cooling issues.

Solutions
-was going to change out thermostat to 180 degree but guy at Napa said that'll only lead to more problems, should instead pull out condensor and see if debris is fouling that area. regardless he said the problem's somewhere up front and not the thermostat, maybe fan clutch or radiator. I have "washed" out the engine but its been dirty before w/o problems.

-going to take it to my local mechanic on Monday and have them inspect the cooling system and see if they can tell. I'm retarded when it comes to correctly troubleshooting engine systems. I feel like I should bend over everytime a mechanic gets their hands on my rig, but I'm too dumb to know if I'm fixing / doing the right thing.

-does system need improving if I'm primarily going to wheel (yet remain streetable)?

-if you were going to "improve" the system what would you install?
electic fan set-up, if so which one?
heavy duty water pump? worth the hassle?
new radiator? which one?

Last edited by 00SolarTJ; 06-12-2007 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Since you mention hard starting, have your timing checked. It may be retarded when the engine is idling or running at low speed causing it to run hot. Usually a radiator with plugged fins will run cooler at low speed and hotter as rpm/load increases because it can't disipate the additional heat generated. There's my best internet guess.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, from what you described, my guess is that the timing is off OR the radiator fins are plugged. We see this a lot in Florida where several jeeps pass through a water crossing. The first few churn up the mud, and then all the crap in the water clogs the AC condensors of those following. Three at a time had to be limped home running hot after this happened on a trail ride about two and a half years ago.

We unplugged the wiper fluid hoses and used the "pressurized" water from the reservoir to try to blow it out. We emptied several coolers for the cold water in them. I even told the guy who insisted on driving home alone that as it heats up he should pull over and let it cool before continuing. If it got too hot, he should do the "Red Dawn" technique and piss in the radiator. The dumbass believed me and did it right in front of somebody's house!
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Old 06-12-2007, 05:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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After you find the problem, from an old post...
I did some more research and dock me for not posting this new information.
The Haden fan clutch is a replacement for the OEM clutch on a 2000 TJ 4.0L and will only drive the 7 blade fan at a reduced rpm. To get the full benefit of the 7 blade you need to run the OEM part numbered replacement clutch. There is a service bulletin out identifying these two part numbers as a cure for long idle periods, in gear with hot conditions. Yes, there is a noticeable difference in cooling and fan noise when driving in slow, hot conditions, like in town. I can actually hear the fan quite down on the highway after about a mile or so when the engine gets cooler. I got my clutch for $158.
These part numbers are for direct bolt on for 2000 and up TJ’s…
DC Part Number 05066177AA Clutch, Fan Drive $158
DC Part Number 55037650AA Fan, Cooling, 7 blade $36

2001 Jeep Truck Wrangler L6-242 4.0L VIN S SFI

Temperature/Check Gauges Light ON

Engine - High Temperature/Check Gauges Light ON

NUMBER: 07-004-01 REV A

DATE: Dec. 14, 2001
THIS BULLETIN SUPERCEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 07-004-01, DATED JULY 20, 2001.

SUBJECT:
High Engine Temperatures Due To Extended In-Gear Idling In Hot Ambient Temperatures

OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves replacement of the cooling fan and fan drive. Certain 2000 M.Y. Wranglers will also require selectively erasing and reprogramming the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with new software (2000 TJ - Calibration Level Cal15A).

MODELS:
2000 - 2001 (TJ) Wrangler
NOTE : THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO WRANGLERS EQUIPPED WITH A 4.0L (ERH)
ENGINE AND A 32RH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (DGG).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Engine coolant temperatures may rise high enough to cause the Check Gauges light to illuminate, indicating high engine coolant temperature. This condition is likely to happen after extended periods of idling, with the transmission in Drive, the air conditioning on, and with ambient temperatures greater than 35C. (95F.). If the transmission is placed in the Park or Neutral positions, or if the vehicle is driven, then the engine temperatures will decrease.

DIAGNOSIS PROCEDURES:

NOTE : REFER THE CUSTOMER TO THE RESPECTIVE 2000 OR 2001 JEEP
WRANGLER OWNER'S MANUAL AND TO THE SECTION TITLED: WHAT TO DO IN
EMERGENCIES - IF YOUR ENGINE OVERHEATS. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE
PROPER PROCEDURES ARE FOLLOWED TO PREVENT AN ENGINE OVERHEAT
CONDITION.

NOTE :INFORM THE CUSTOMER THAT THE REVISED FAN AND FAN DRIVE WILL
CREATE HIGHER SOUND LEVELS FOR A MINUTE OR SO AFTER A COLD ENGINE
START, AND DURING HIGH ENGINE TEMPERATURE CONDITIONS.
**THE FAN WILL RUN MORE OFTEN BECAUSE THE FAN CLUTCH WILL NOW ENGAGE AT LOWER TEMPERATURES.**

PARTS REQUIRED:
EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:
NOTE :THE MDS2 AND DRB III(R) ARE REQUIRED TO PERFORM PART OF THIS
REPAIR. WHEN USING THE MDS2 AND THE DRB III(R), THE SYSTEM MUST BE
OPERATING AT CIS CD 2064 OR HIGHER.
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. Verify that the cooling system is in good working condition.
2. Verify that the engine coolant mixture contains the proper amount of antifreeze.
3. If the customer complains of the above condition, and the vehicle is a 2000 Wrangler
with PCM software that is earlier (lower or less) than the calibration listed above, perform the complete Repair Procedure.
4. If the customer complains of the above condition, and the vehicle is either a 2001 Wrangler or it is a 2000 Wrangler with PCM software already at calibration level 15A or later, then perform only Step 1 of the Repair Procedure (replace only the fan and fan drive).

Verify the current PCM software calibration level (2000 Wrangler only). If the 2000 Wrangler PCM software calibration level is earlier (less or lower) than 2000 TJ - Calibration Level 15A, then proceed with steps 2 though 4.

NOTE :THE FOLLOWING STEPS ARE REQUIRED BY LAW.
1. Replace the cooling fan and viscous fan drive. Refer to the appropriate Wrangler Service Manual, Section 7 - Cooling Engine, for detailed fan and fan drive removal and installation instructions. The Service Manual procedures may be found on the MDS2.
2. Reprogram the PCM using the MDS2 (Mopar Diagnostic System) and DRBIII(R) (Scan Tool).
3. Type the necessary information on the "Authorized Software Update Label" p/n04669020 (Fig. 1). Attach the label to the PCM and cover the label with the clear plastic overlay.
4. Type the necessary information on the "Authorized Modification Label" p/n 04275086 and attach the label near the VECI label (Fig. 2).

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Old 06-12-2007, 05:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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bulliten mentions an automatic tranny. I've got a 5-spd manual. still a relavant bulliten to my situation?

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Old 06-12-2007, 05:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00SolarTJ View Post
bulliten mentions an automatic tranny. I've got a 5-spd manual. still a relavant bulliten to my situation?
Yep...
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Remove your radiator and WASH it... I had the same problems - tried cleaning out the radiator in the jeep - still had the problem- pulled the radiator and washed it on the drive way and flushed mud out of it for about 30mins, mainly in the corners and areas other than directly in front of the fan.

The driveway wash out solved my overheating problem.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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it could be crap in the radiator.

have you checked your oil for antifreeze in it?

heavy duty water pump - NO, unless you go with a radiator that can handle the greater speed (like an aluminum radiator). otherwise your stock radiator is only so effiicient.

electric fan - NO, most are far less efficient than a mechanical fan.

flush out your radiator or take it in to a radiator shop and have it flushed out.

also, check the overflow tube, it could be clogged.

if that doesn't work, replace thermostat with a normal TJ thermo (your thermo could be bad)

then if that doesn't work look at a radiator. Most guys get them from www.radiatorbarn.com

I have Novak 2 core aluminum - I run cool all the time. I also run a summit flex fan.


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Old 06-14-2007, 10:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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x2 on the fan clutch...
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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fan turns a lot faster hot than cold (engine off, turning by hand ) so I suspect it's the fan clutch. hosed off back of radiator (didn't pull the radiator, just hosed it off installed). that seemed to help. will check oil and tubes and replace fan clutch in next week or so. thanks for info.

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Old 06-22-2007, 03:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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fan clutch installed. easiest thing I've installed in the jeep to date. hasn't overheated yet, but this weekend will be test. thanks to all who helped.

UPDATE: fixed. does not overheat. between that and replacing air filter she runs nice and cool now.

Last edited by 00SolarTJ; 06-23-2007 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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to anyone that stumbles across this thead...the newest prices for the parts mentioned a couple posts ago for the parts:

DC Part Number 05066177AA Clutch, Fan Drive
DC Part Number 55037650AA Fan, Cooling, 7 blade

are

Cluth, Fan Drive $268
Fan, Cooling, 7 blade $67
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00SolarTJ View Post
fan clutch installed. easiest thing I've installed in the jeep to date. hasn't overheated yet, but this weekend will be test. thanks to all who helped.

UPDATE: fixed. does not overheat. between that and replacing air filter she runs nice and cool now.
You did put your shroud back on right.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You mentioned pegging out the needle a time or 2.......have you checked for a possible head gasket leak? Pull the spark plugs and see if any are wet on the electrode end.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Is the system actually building pressure in it? If the rad cap is bad the coolant boiling point is lower in the system. Also Tj's use plastic tanks that crimp to the main radiator body and are sealed with a gasket. I've had leaks with mine and seen a ton of others leak pressure out thru them as well. I ended up hunting around and finding an all metal aftermarket one for a decent price and never had a problem since.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quick question on fan clutch. Should it change speeds? When the motor is hot & cool should you be able to turn it by hand? I just read a few posts that say you should not be able too. I also read a forum that said it should turn free.

I went out in the garage and checked mine. I can turn it free by hand. Is this good or bad?
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Quick question on fan clutch. Should it change speeds? When the motor is hot & cool should you be able to turn it by hand? I just read a few posts that say you should not be able too. I also read a forum that said it should turn free.

I went out in the garage and checked mine. I can turn it free by hand. Is this good or bad?
Cold or hot it should never spin free, you should be able to spin it with some resistance (the hotter it is the more resistance it should have). If you can't move it, its locked up and needs to be replaced...
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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So if I understand correctly as it heats up the clutch begins to lock up to slow/disengage the fan, desiring the fan to work as air flow when sitting still or moving slowly. Is that correct?

Last edited by BIG HENYA; 08-22-2013 at 06:45 AM. Reason: .
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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So if I understand correctly as it heats up the clutch begins to lock up to slow/disengage the fan, desiring the fan to work as air flow when sitting still or moving slowly. Is that correct?
The hotter the fan clutch gets, the less it slips...
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 00SolarTJ View Post
fan clutch installed. easiest thing I've installed in the jeep to date. hasn't overheated yet, but this weekend will be test. thanks to all who helped.

UPDATE: fixed. does not overheat. between that and replacing air filter she runs nice and cool now.
You guys do realize this is a 6 year old thread right?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Talking

Didn't realize there should be an expiration on threads.
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