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Old 01-13-2011, 10:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Starting a 1 Ton TJ Soon?

Hello all,

I've been reading like crazy about this swap and can't find answers to a few questions. I'll start with what I have current and what I am planning:

2004 Jeep TJ
4.0 w/ Kenne Bell Supercharger
NV3550
NP 231
Dana 30 Open Front (Current)
Dana 44 Locked Rear (Current)
33x12.5x15 Muds

What I want to swap in:
1979 Ford HP60
1993 Ford Sterling 10.25
H1 Double Beadlocks
Military Goodyear 37's

The ultimate goal is to keep the Jeep as street friendly as possible while on full width axles, keep the stock type suspension front and rear, to keep my back seat, run it with current 4" lift/1.5" body lift, and most importantly have fun in the process. Obviously, I wheel it otherwise I wouldn't be here. I just enjoy driving it around in the summer with the top off. Also, I don't trailer to the trail head so I need it at least to look street legal at a glance. Finally, the back seat is needed for the car seat as its fun to take the family out too sometimes.

Currently, I have 7" flares on all 4 corners. I bought the Jeep with the current wheel and tire combo so I don't know the exact offset, but they stick out far. All the same, the flares cover the tire. Currently, my total width outside of the tire to outside of the tire is about 74". I want to run the H1 Rims recentered to a 5-5.5" backspacing. This should put about 4" of rim outside the WMS. The 69.25" WMS to WMS HP60 with a large offset rim like the H1 rims should allow me to keep close to the 77-79" total width I am looking for without narrowing the axles. 69.25"+4"+4"=77.25" I realize those numbers are without a tire, but at roughly 78-79" total I will still have good tire coverage with my flares. Sound right?

Ok, anyways here are a few questions running through my head that I can't find the answer to...

1) With the Sterling 10.25 rear and a stock wheelbase, will I have to move my gas tank or swap in a fuel cell? Key part here is a stock wheelbase. I just don't know if the tank will clear the larger diff. Just like everyone else doing this stuff, I'm on a budget and would like to maintain my stock tank. More importantly, with the Supercharger I don't want to mess with fuel delivery too much. If a fuel cell is the answer, then I need to be able to maintain the sending unit and pump I already have as to not mess with the tune.

2) When swapping in the HP Front, will it be 100% required to turn the knuckles back? Like I said, I am going to run both axles full width. I would really like to not have to cut the knuckles off to turn them back to get it at 4-8 degrees, but I also want it to track correctly. I will if I have to. I was honestly hoping I could set the axle up level on the knuckle then turn it to 6 degrees. After that I plan to check my pinion angle and as long as it looks good weld the truss and brackets on. I plan to use the TNT HP60 truss kit, http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scri...idproduct=1559 as its only a little more than most bracket kits out there and I feel like you get a lot more with it.

I know everything I am not saying is 100% ideal for a hardcore 1 ton trail rig like most are building here. 37's on a stock wheel base, stock type suspension (no 4 link), ect. I just want to get it to this point so I can have something to work off later on as money permits. Also, I understand the Military Goodyear rubber is hard and not many people like wheeling them, but for $75.00 a corner it will get me rolling for now.

Sorry in advance if I missed a build that covered most or some of this. I have been reading all over though and couldn't find exact answers to these questions.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I see no need to mess with the front axle asside from modifying it with truss, gears, etc. I havent touched the inner knuckles on mine and dont feel its necessary.

thats about all I can answer as im unfamiluar with both sterling axles and fitting them in a stock wheelbase with a factory tank. I can tell you there is a guy on here (BEAR) who put a 14b in his yj with the factory tank, he had to shave a litttle of the chunk on the top.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I keep reading that the Sterling has a much smaller diff housing than the 14 bolt. People say it has about the same ground clearance as a 14 both that have been cut and welded. If he is running it stock wheelbase with a stock tank and just a little clearance work, then it should be ok.

Anyone else???

Should I repost this in the hardcore section? I am new to pirate, so didn't know where it would be best.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3753 View Post
People say it has about the same ground clearance as a 14 both that have been cut and welded.
are you referring to a shaved 14b?
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Pics of said SC please.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primate60 View Post

are you referring to a shaved 14b?
I am. Specifically, like the one that was cut and welded in the 14 bolt bible which gained about 2" of clearance. Everywhere I have read said that the Sterling axle has about the same clearance as a 14 bolt shaved about 2" without doing anything to it.

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Originally Posted by jpfrk2001 View Post
Pics of said SC please.








Not the greatest pics, but that is me coming up the ledge on that last shot.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Dana HP60 out of a 1979 F-350.




I thought I was a good deal. Everything is tight and in good operational shape. I'll be tearing it down anyways, but for $700.00 it was hard to beat.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I was told that a stretch was required in order to fit the sterling due to the longer pinion. This is coming from a builder who's work, I personaly admire. My thread "mild mannered jeep" outlines a little of the requirements to get a sterling under a jeep. I have a 92 10.25 just waiting to be swapped in, if the funds magically appear.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yeap, that is a good deal for the front axle.

For me, every time Im in the market for a front axle, All I find are the 89 Ford KP models. then when I buy one for around 1100, a 79 comes up for sale in the classifieds a week later.

I bet that jeep is fun to drive.

I know mine is. But Im fighting a lean condition right now under boost conditions.

Looking forward to this thread.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'll definatly check out your build. I'm not 100% sure on the Sterling yet, but it is a definate option for me. I actually want to do the stretch, but just not a huge one. About 5" is all I really wanted so I can keep it fully bodied. Just have to wait and see if I have the money. The SYE I have is one of the Super Shorts, so that should help if the pinion is longer.

The HP60 I just got has 3.54 gears so i will obviously doing a regear. Originally, the guy I got it from thought it had 4.10's but when I went to get it I pulled the cover and it was 3.54's. I started looking at the Sterling axle because I know where there are 3 or 4 of them all with 4.10's. I just figured it would make it easier to complete the swap without having to regear the axles.

Now that I have to regear the front anyways, if I can find a 14 bolt with the 4.56 stock gears, I would jump on it. I might actually have a line on a good 14 bolt with 4.56's and a Detroit for $400.00. It just depends on if I can get it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, 5" should be all you need and there are fuel cells designed to fit behind the rear seat with stock capacity (or is it a little less?). Easy on calling mine a build, lol it's more of a brain storming thread.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3753 View Post
I'll definatly check out your build. I'm not 100% sure on the Sterling yet, but it is a definate option for me. I actually want to do the stretch, but just not a huge one. About 5" is all I really wanted so I can keep it fully bodied. Just have to wait and see if I have the money. The SYE I have is one of the Super Shorts, so that should help if the pinion is longer.

The HP60 I just got has 3.54 gears so i will obviously doing a regear. Originally, the guy I got it from thought it had 4.10's but when I went to get it I pulled the cover and it was 3.54's. I started looking at the Sterling axle because I know where there are 3 or 4 of them all with 4.10's. I just figured it would make it easier to complete the swap without having to regear the axles.

Now that I have to regear the front anyways, if I can find a 14 bolt with the 4.56 stock gears, I would jump on it. I might actually have a line on a good 14 bolt with 4.56's and a Detroit for $400.00. It just depends on if I can get it.


I can pull the 4.10 gears out of my axle if your interesred in used gears for the front


in my opinion you should go with the 14b
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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would one of those genright tanks or something similar work? keeps your factory sending stuff.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:23 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think, someone correct me if I am wrong, that those tanks work with a 5" stretch with stock axles. If you run a 1 ton axle then they say you can only run a 3" stretch.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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They offer whats called an "alien" tank that will allow you 8 inches of stretch with a d60.
Linky
http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo....ductid=GST2006
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Last edited by southernwonton; 01-18-2011 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thank you for the link. That does bring up another question I have been looking into. Is a D60 rear worth it? I will be running 37's. I've heard some say unless you go to 35 spline with it then don't bother. I've decided on running 5.13's now that I have to regear the front from 3.54's anyways, so I am much more open to what rear end to use now.

D60's seem to be easy to get cheap. Is it worth it or should I just stick with the 14 bolt/D70/Sterling 10.25 everyone else is using.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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A lot of people run 60's in the rear but I would only put a 14b or D70hd or u under my rig
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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With the reading I have been doing I was thinking the same. The main reason I decided to swap to 1 tons was insurance to get to the trail, wheel, and drive it home. I feel like going with a 60 in the rear and 37's would just move my worries from the front to the rear axle. I just wanted to see what others thought.

Last edited by Bill3753; 01-18-2011 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I'll let you in on a little secret. There is somebody working on building a third member drop out and bullet proof housing that can use OEM D60 stuff. It can also simply be used in a HP and/or LP configuration by just simply turning the drop out 180 degrees. Chew on that one

Im staying with my 60's front and rear and jumping on a new bandwagon when it rolls into town.

Edit: Here you go:
/forum/general-4x4-discussion/859429-new-axle-sixty9.html
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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when it comes to axles there are all kinds of options especially if you have the money sixty9 being one of my favorites

another option you have is a jana76 - dana60 clearance with (near) Dana 70 strength
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well, I just picked up a new 14 bolt Detroit locker on the classified forum on the cheap. Also found a 14 bolt FF out of a 98 Chevy about an hour from me. I'll be picking it up this weekend. So, got the rear figured out now.

Anyone got a spare set of 5.13's for a 14 bolt? How about a install kit?

Last edited by Bill3753; 01-19-2011 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Update

Ok, so its been a while since I have posted on here but the build is starting to take shape. Its way different then I had originally planned, so here is an update.

Front:
79 Ford HP60 Front Full Width
5.13 Gears w/ Timken Install Kit
Eaton E-Locker
TNT Truss w/ all mounts
Crossover Steering (Tie Rod on the knuckle/Drag Link Over the Knuckle)
Custom Track bar
Rusty's Radius Type Long Arms (Picked up on eBay super cheap)
Spicer U-Joints
Spicer Lock Outs
Stock Axle Shafts 35 spline inner/30 spline outer
New Seals
Probably my own custom creation of a modified/welded stock diff cover
Maybe a little shave/grinding for ground clearance???

Rear:
Corp 14 Bolt (New Style w/ slide off drums)
Disc Brake Conversion
SRW Hubs
5.13 Gears w/ Timken Install Kit
Detroit Locker
3/16" Fabricated Diff Cover designed to shave the bottom bolt of the 14 bolt off
Clayton 4 link 5" Stretch Kit (Lucked into this brand new from a local guy killing his project)

Other Items:
Toyo Open Country MT's 38x14.5x16
Super Short SYE (Already had it, just needed to install and get a CV Shaft)
Genright YJ Corners to cover the TJ filler whole and move it to the rear
Genright Alien 10 Gallon Tank

So, now that everyone is up to date I have a few more questions.

I am getting ready to order wheels soon and I still want to keep as much backspacing as I can. With 38's, can I run 5.5" of backspacing and not have them hitting the frame/anything else when I turn lock to lock? Yes, the axle is full width so it should be fine and I know guys are running H2's on a 60 front without problems hitting the steering and those wheels have about 5.5" of backspacing. I just wanted to know for sure I can clear everything else with 38's before I order the wheels. Its looking like to get a steel 16x10 with a 5.5" backspacing on a 8x6.5 pattern I will need to custom order them, so I just want to be sure before I do. Everything else I find in that size have a 4" or 4.125" backspacing, so I seem to be limited to custom wheels.

Does anyone else know where I can find 16x10 wheels on a 8x6.5 pattern with even a 4.5" backspacing without having them custom made? I figured it wouldn't be hard, but options become next to nothing when you go from 16x8 to 16x10.

Thanks again for the help. The rear is stripped of all the brackets, hubs, and all internals. I should have some pictures up soon of swapping it in.
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Old 02-22-2011, 04:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Anyone? I just want to make 100% sure I have the offset correct before I order these wheels. Still searching, but seem to be striking out. Can I clear 38x14.5x16's when turning lock to lock on a full width HP60 on a TJ with about 4.5" of lift?
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:30 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Anyone? I just want to make 100% sure I have the offset correct before I order these wheels. Still searching, but seem to be striking out. Can I clear 38x14.5x16's when turning lock to lock on a full width HP60 on a TJ with about 4.5" of lift?
http://www.mrt-wheels.com/

These guys can make you what ever you want. Custom off-set, bead locks etc, and their prices are good.
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