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Old 10-18-2011, 04:29 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Just start cutting, it will be fine.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:42 AM   #102 (permalink)
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do your self a favor and get a flanging tool. harbor tools #sku1110. it will flange and punch 3/16 holes for plug welds. that and a long wide jaw vice grip for pulling seams togather will make a nicer job. don't use less than 16ga sheel metal, its to easy to blow holes and make a mess with thinner stuff
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:12 AM   #103 (permalink)
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instead of welding mine I used some 3/4" self tapping screws at 2"-3" centers, that way I can remove it if needed--two reasons--to get at the shifting linkage of the atlas and just in case I change the design(likely not gonna happen, cuz putting in the atlas 4spd hi/lo cable shifter was a major pain that I don't want to revisit any to soon)....
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:20 AM   #104 (permalink)
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do your self a favor and get a flanging tool. harbor tools #sku1110. it will flange and punch 3/16 holes for plug welds. that and a long wide jaw vice grip for pulling seams togather will make a nicer job. don't use less than 16ga sheel metal, its to easy to blow holes and make a mess with thinner stuff
Thanks for the tip, that is a neat little unit. I have a set of flanging pliers around somewhere already.

I have been giving some thought to what I want to do for a tunnel cover. I don't know if I can pull it off, but I kinda want to make something that looks 'stamped' like the stock tunnel. I see this being very difficult however since its going to be a fairly complex part overall. I have a hammer and a wood stump out back. I would probably need to buy a planishing hammer or something too then.

It would be a challenge for sure....
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:37 AM   #105 (permalink)
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i wasn't implying a solid cover. that much damage needs to be pulled back to a workable surface an rebuilt from there. i have a marsh threadsert tool for screws and small bolts, i also have welded square nuts to the back side to bolt covers on. with a his manual trans a removeable cover is manatory for service. screwed floor covers have always looked tacky to me thats why i invested in the tool to do it better. besides i always wind up sliceing the crap out of my hands on the screws. the cover is just flat planes an angles. if it takes 20 small pieces to make a cover it is what it is. as long as its strong and looks rite. you can bend small stuff in the vice, clamped to your welding table or make a small bender to fit in a small shop press. the flanger will make stronger joints. a little bondo, caulking, or bed liner after your done will smooth thing out an hide ruff edges. i have remanufactured many tub floors its not hard. if you f-it up cut it out an do it different
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:43 AM   #106 (permalink)
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I am going to be cutting it a ways back for sure. I would like to replicate an M38 style cover that basically uncovers the entire transmission and t-case.

I will probably be cutting back to the flat surface of the floor in most directions.....
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:47 AM   #107 (permalink)
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your quick. it must be a boring day
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:54 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I get updates on the thread...pirate is up a lot during the day searching for odd questions that pop in my head. Ahhhh...the joys of working in front of a computer It pays the bills though.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:09 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I decided I didn't want to cut the tub so I made a body lift....



Just kidding, this was an easy way to index the tub over the frame while I started trimming out the tunnel. Overall it went pretty good, I still have more work to do. The most problematic area is the firewall over the top of the bellhousing. That is going to work. The area under the fuel pedal needs some modification. Its pretty tight in that area. The body still needs to go down about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch...and the transmission and t-case are going to come up another 1/4". Trimming the firewall out is going to be a pain in the rear I think.



This is where the carb is sitting right now. I just don't know if I am going to be able to get a carb under the hood.



The all-thread body lift worked great to let me lower the body a little bit at a time and keep it indexed over the body. I think that worked out really good for a few bucks in parts. It will also allow me to lift the body up and down a few times without having to use the hoist. It takes a little bit of time to raise the body up or let it down but they where strong enough to let me stand in the tub while I was trimming.



Overall the engine position worked out pretty well. I think I should be able to fit an XJ sized booster on the firewall like I want to. The engine seems to be in a very good position for firewall clearance, other the bellhousing, but I think with the tucked drivetrain its impossible to get away for the issue without moving the motor forward another inch or two. At that point, even with the V6, the radiator will become a problem.

The other area I had an issue with was the rear output clearance with the hat channel on the body. I just don't think an e-brake is going to fit on the back o the transfer case. I will probably change to a short 1310 yoke and get rid of the flange.

I still have a decent amount of trimming to do, but the basic layout is there.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:22 PM   #110 (permalink)
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The air cleaner looks close. Can you fit a dropped base air cleaner?

Something like this.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-2147/
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:30 PM   #111 (permalink)
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That is probably what I am going to try to get the thing running around again. I found some 1.5 and 1.75" drop units at Summit for pretty cheap.

Even the choke horn will be coming pretty dang close.

I just don't know if its going to fit with the existing carb. I may need to do something else that would be more low profile.....what that is I just don't really know yet.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:55 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Have you looked into the low profile air cleaner kits or a low profile intake?

edit: beat me to it
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:39 PM   #113 (permalink)
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One inch body lift pucks?
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:58 AM   #114 (permalink)
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One inch body lift pucks?
No body lift for me. If I am going to make a custom one off frame I just don't see running a body lift on it. With the old willys tubs you loose some of the body mounts if you use a body lift too....the hard mound ones on the sides of the frame on the front half of the chassis.

I will just keep trimming.....
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:10 AM   #115 (permalink)
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i had to go reread to be sure, but you can make a nice small bender and weld or bolt it to the end of your steel table. something about 2'. i used a offset air cleaner base on my carb, the tbi fits in the same place. with the offset you can move it to one side if you need to. i have used hella lites in place of the head lites to dump the buckets for more room for the radiator. my 51 has harley lites in it. i have also notched the buckets to clear more radiator and to push stuff forward. i saw a thread on the hard core section called tube buggy flatty i think had a nice example of floor sheeting. he went a little to high but he did nice work. just ideas like you don't have enuff to think about
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:34 AM   #116 (permalink)
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i had to go reread to be sure, but you can make a nice small bender and weld or bolt it to the end of your steel table. something about 2'. i used a offset air cleaner base on my carb, the tbi fits in the same place. with the offset you can move it to one side if you need to. i have used hella lites in place of the head lites to dump the buckets for more room for the radiator. my 51 has harley lites in it. i have also notched the buckets to clear more radiator and to push stuff forward. i saw a thread on the hard core section called tube buggy flatty i think had a nice example of floor sheeting. he went a little to high but he did nice work. just ideas like you don't have enuff to think about
Thanks for all the ideas. I have been looking to make a simple angle iron sheetmetal brake to help do the tunnel and some other stuff. I need to dig through the scrap bin at work for some short cuts

I have a crazy idea for a carb system that I might try if I get enough time before EJS. Just to get it running I will leave the hood off for now. I can try a drop base, but I fear that the carb horn will be into the hood once the body is in its final home. I might be able to do some simple things like shave the intake or remove the carb adapter if I get time. Worst case I can run the air cleaner out the hood or a carb plenum out the hood with a remote filter. My hood is fairly trashed....so I could see getting a new one down the road.

The radiator I have ( 80s datsun pickup ) works pretty well overall. Its nice and short. Down the road I will look into doing something 'better' but again, if it works now I can get things going again without killing myself on all the small details. I have a twin electric fan unit from a chrysler new yorker ( I think ) that works pretty well and fits very nice around the accessories on the engine.

My main goal with this project is getting the jeep back together enough with the BIG modifications done. I can tackle the smaller stuff after EJS. The big modifications are the new frame, raised engine/trans/t-case, 'highline' conversion, D30 front, bigger tires, full float, disc brakes, etc.

I just keep trying to keep working on stuff....
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:10 PM   #117 (permalink)
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once apon a time someone donated a piece of black polyuerthane 1"x6" by 8' to my junk pile. i have been making my own poly mounts with it. 3/8" thicker than the stocker stuff. mcmaster-carr has lot of different stuff to make your own. makes the difference on closeing the hood or not. couple braces sat 1/2" sq tube added to the hood would let take 3/8" of the center flange out now your talking 3/4" without a body lift puck. i welded the mounts higher on the 51 frame, i don't like body lifts myself.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:16 PM   #118 (permalink)
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I'm not too worried about the carb/hood/air-cleaner thing. There are a lot of different things I can do to address it that doesn't involve a body lift. I just don't like body lifts much at all. I know sometimes they serve a purpose, but I try and stay away as much as I can. On the flat fender frame I think having the hat channels and various other flat sections ride ON the frame really helps keep the flat fender bodies straighter.

I'll get it back together and running around first, then I will worry about stuff like the hood. I feel like I just have a TON to do just to get driving around.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:08 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Holy cow...there is a transmission and transfer case in my Jeep....no really, its more in than under!



I made the new shim for the transmission mount, it is .25" taller than before. It really helped with the clearance between the crossmember and the transfer case, but I could tell it raised everything that is for sure.



Not a lot of room for an air cleaner



I am probably going to have to rework the hat channel that is over the rear output yoke a little bit. It doesn't need much, but it needs something. Please excuse the 70 years of junk.



I don't know if I am going to be able to fit a booster or not? Manual brakes should work if I have to go that way.



Here is a not so good picture of the final clearance under the frame. Its a decent amount for such a small jeep I think. Even on jack stands it seems that there is going to be a LOT of clearance under the chassis, especially for something with a short wheelbase.

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Old 10-20-2011, 01:35 PM   #120 (permalink)
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I need some seats!

Since I have the MB tub without the storage box and i'm pitching the fuel tank from under the seat I REALLY want to lower the seating position and kick back the seats a bit. Its going to be a bit of a go-cart style seating position, something like this.....



I mocked it up in the jeep a while back and it seemed fairly possible....



I am basically trying to get low enough that I can get my big head below the top edge of the shorter MB height windshield so I can run a nice simple low profile cage. My butt is probably only about 2-3" off the floor and my back is about 2-3" from the wheel well. The MB has a nice sloped wheel well by the way. I think its different than the other flat fender tubs? My head in this location can just see the end of the hood. I would guess that the seat back is about 20-25 degrees laid back?

So anyways. When I was at the EJS vendors show this last year I sat in a ton of seats, some where too big, some where too small, but this one seemed just about right....



This is a PRP seat designed for the Rhino side by side. Its basically a 'premier' seat but shorter front to back by 3". I think a smaller seat like this will work much better in the small flat fender cockpit. This seat was also VERY comfortable, ask the lady selling the seats, she had to kick me out a few times.

Anyways. I am thinking a pair of these in the low back version....



I'm checking to see if they can cover them in some Khaki colored 1000 denier Condura nylon. I think that should look kinda like the original military seats did but with a small update. I think olive drab seats with olive drab patina'd paint would be too much olive drab.

Anyone else got any bright ideas?
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:32 PM   #121 (permalink)
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most of the time i have to notch back into the lower rear fender to get some leg room. beards were the lowest seat bottom i have found, most everyone else was 1 to 2 inches higher. in the 42 i tried to order low back beards but they were special order and cost more than the hi backs. check all the specs before you buy. i changed out the beards with mastercraft and wacked my head on the roll bar. ran them 2 years with my head cocked so i could see under the top of the windshield. put corbeaus in and they were the same. beards were 1" narrower to. my 51 used to look like that sand jeep back in the 80's 231/t-10
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:44 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info. That is the kinda stuff that helps.

I'm going to try and NOT notch the wheel well out. I just don't have the room to notch it with the bigger tires and no lift. The tire is pretty much going to take up all the room from the step in the tub to the rear crossmember.

I will know more once I get seats to sit in. My seats are basically going to go right on the floor. I like driving like a scrunched up midget in a go cart anyways. Just about ANYTHING has to be better than the stock seats. That straight up and down back was murder for me.

I basically want to get my head below the short MB height windshield.

Can anyone confirm if the tubs are shaped different on the MB vs a CJ2a and later flat fender? Mine are sloped/angled back a lot more than most it seem like?

I have sat in the PRP rhino seats the most and found then the most comfortable as far as I could tell. At the EJS vendor show I hit up all the seat vendors for like 2 years. I think it was mainly corbeau, mastercraft, and PRP. I can't remember is Beard was there. The PRP seats are pretty affordable for custom covered units too....$250 a seat seems pretty good to me.

According to PRP the seat cushion is 3 3/4" from the bottom of the seat frame static and 1 3/4-2 3/4" from the bottom of the seat frame with someone sitting in the seat. That seems like a low seating height? I don't know how tall the tabs are, but I think I can get the seat pretty dang close to the floor in the 'butt' area....and then tip it back a bit towards the wheel tub.
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:40 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Not really much progress, I ran out of cardboard.



I started mocking up the new tunnel. I tried a few different shapes for the gas pedal area, this one was the best. I think I am going to have to remove the nasty lip of material on the drivers side near the transmission to make a tunnel like I want.

Anyone have a good idea on how much clearance I should leave around everything. I am guessing a little more around the output since it might move the most? Overall I am trying for about 1/2"+ in all areas?

The drivers side of the tunnel next to the transmission is going to end up rather straight up and down I think. That just strikes me as a little odd. I guess in most vehicles you don't sit next to the transmission.....
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:50 AM   #124 (permalink)
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I am happy with 1/8" clearance in a really tight spot. 1/2 seems like a lot especially around the gas pedal area where you will be tight for room anyway.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:01 AM   #125 (permalink)
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I just stopped and picked up a 4x10 sheet of 16 gauge for the tunnel and the other sheet metal projects......rear tub lift, hood, fender, etc.

The general plan is to get a basic shape built in cardboard.....I'm gonna need more cardboard! Then take the floor pan shape from the model and make a full tunnel floor pan out of sheet metal. Somewhere in there I need to build a 36" wide angle iron sheet metal brake. Then bend the main sheet to fit on the floor. I will probably weld in a few nuts or something to help hold in in place so it can't move....

Then I have some 3/16" rod I am going to use to create a wire frame to the same cardboard shape. The rod will be used to define the edges and bends. Then I can take masking tape....lots of masking tape....and cover the wire frame. Then the tape should be able to be cut off the frame fairly cleanly. These tape patterns will let me cut out the sheet metal plates.

I think I can eliminate some of the rod grid by adding bends if I want, or I can just weld in the rods from the bottom on some bends.

Then...using mainly spoons......

I think I will have a tunnel. I think if I build the same shape in cardboard, then with the base plate and wire the shape will be easier to reproduce. I think I am going to cover all of the original stamped tunnel so that the geometric tunnel will better match the rear fender wells. I think that will help things look better....

Its going to be a fun weekend I think
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