not a build thread, but kind of is--just tryin to help others

[wilez5150]

sometimes the moter has to run for a little while for the computer to get aquainted with all its parts. i got way to much cam in mine and it has always had idle issues. burnt 12 new chips chasing the problem without fixing it. learned to live with it, stalls sometimes on the trail but screams like a mashed cat when you stand on it. nice to see it outside, turned out sweet

[MrWillys]

It's been so long I forgot it's injected. You cannot adjust the idle, because it is set in the programming. Moving the throttle blade screw just screws the IAC setting up. Find someone who programs FORD, and have them increase the idle 100 rpm, and modify the flowrate for the 24's.
Sorry, but looking at a Willys grill with AMC parking lights sends chills up my spine. I guess I'm too old!
Not as old as my Tequila buddy though:<)

[csutton7]

mr willys:: aha, you is dishin' me bout the front and I thought it was the rear!!! I bought it with those already attached, so sometime in the future I will look into a proper upgrade--I'm all ears to suggestions, although I can probably get the proper ones from one of the willys vendors on the 'net.....

10-4 on the programmer, had that in mind from the start...just might be awhile before I get it done--I'm to go back to Africa here somewhere between 2-4 weeks from now and work for a few months, so I won't be doing much with the jeep....

wilez5150---well maybe I'll live with it also once I get it timed right, which will be interesting since I had to make a timing pointer and hopefully it's not off to much!!!!

heimaster80--that PSC log style steering cooler may happen sooner vs later, since it looks like I need to change a hose, so during that change out I'll probably swap the TG cooler out for the PSC one.....

[cmaje72]

Do you have one of those MAF sensors that is supposed to fake the ECU out for the larger injectors? If so then you shouldn't need programming changes for that.

Did you do the whole base timing set thing? The ECU is looking for 10 degrees. You get it up to operating temp, pull the little plug near the distributor, and set the timing to 10. Shut it down and put the plug back in. Start it up again. See if it runs better.

For what its worth...my 5.0 is all stock 89. When I start it up for the first time after having the battery out for a while it runs like I have a cam in there. After a couple cycles things settle down and it runs normally again.

[csutton7]

cmaje72--so far timing is set by ear--plan to attempt to set it with the light, when my buddy can help me out as I don't have light any more--need to buy a decent one soon though---other thing is since I have the front dress from an explorer I had to make a timing pointer so that's going to be interesting---but all in all thanks for the update info on the timing procedure---been quite sometime since I've had to time something with a light...

not sure about the MAF, but the guy said it worked with his 'stang before I bought it---I do have a MAF off of a 4.6, that some say will work and other's say it won't and I'm tempted to try it, but I may have to swap in the 19lb injectors---

headed down stairs to see if I can get it to run like it did upon initial start up by playin with the idle.....

[csutton7]

I tinkered with the idle and then with timing(by ear) and it ran a little better, but I decided it was smart to wait for my buddy and his timing light to get it done once. Right now my buddy is going to come over after work and give me a hand with his timing light to dial try and dial it in.

[OakieOffroad85]

Wow Chris that thing looks great pulled out of the garage. Good job on the build. I like that color too.

[csutton7]

Thanks Oakie it sure feels good to drive it, but I need to get the thing to run right.
UPDATE:
I found 2 plug wires burned on the driver's side, which doesn't surprise me cuz of the stock 'stang headears & gt40p heads. You need to do some massaging on the driver's side stang headers(pass side no issues at all) to clear the boots on #5 and #8(I think this is right, somewhere in this build thread I think I have it spelled out), so we had to do some swapping of wires and parts to combat that for now. We got it timed or extremely close to it(using the explorer front cover and not getting a timing pointer and making your own makes it interesting). I got the pointer close when I made it, but it still misses and it runs so rich it isn't funny, so I've decided once the engine cools down to pull the 24lb injectors and put the 19lbers in and hope the MAF I have off a 94 stang will work, if not then I'll have to buy another MAF. Hopefully this will combat the miss and I'm pretty sure the running rich will be taken care of. Of course if I could find a 'puter that was tuned for 24lb stuff that would be the easiest, but even then it'd be a hit and miss, so 19lb stuff it will be.

I also changed out the steering cooler, so that I fit in better with the flatty crowd and wouldn't be made fun of when my back is turned. Really since I had a hose end that wouldn't seal I had to change that so why not do the cooler at the same time---pic below for proof>>>>>

[csutton7]

f4sf-12b579-aa is the # on the MAF I bought yrs ago and like I found out a yr or 2 after I bought it research still points to the fact that this MAF won't work on 5.0 motors from 86-93--so I'm not changing injectors now---I"ll be doing some research to see what the cheapest options are.....

[MrWillys]

I looked it up to be a 94, 95 Thunderbird 3.8, and 4.6. Get the aftermarket one made for 24 lb injectors.

[csutton7]

I have an aftermarket Granatelli one made for 24lb injectors on it right now, but good lord margaret is it running rich and it still misses, just not as bad(at least in the driveway, didn't drive it around to check it but upon giving it throttle it has a little hiccup and then I think it gets so much fuel it starts to miss)---I'm not sure why, so I'm hoping to go to the pick & pull tomorrow and see if I can find one of these:

F2VF-12B579-A1A or an A2A

then I'll come back and swap in the 19lb injectors and new to me MAF and see what happens.....

[csutton7]

forgot to mention that the plug wires that melted were ACCELL 8mm wires for the MSD distributor with 45* boots at the spark-plugs......

[MrWillys]

I know squat about Ford tuning, but I'm a TPI guru. After tuning hundreds of mass air cars I can tell you the biggest improvement when someone puts in a bigger cam is a modified spark table. You need more timing at idle, and less at WOT, and I'd have the knock sensor zero'd out, because of the strange harmonics a big rig like your is capable of.
Can you put on a pair of glasses and tell me the number on the injector? Maybe, 280-150-947?
Call these guys tomorrow:
http://www.dezracing.net/dyno.html
Just a little search, seems Ford guys thinks he's pretty good.

[csutton7]

Mr.Willys----I know the injectors are blue and that's it, I'll get a # when I get one out, but at the point 19lbers are going in, unless someone says--"hey you idiot did you do this??"

It's just funny how just changing injectors and a MAF work for some, but not others, I should've known better that I'd have to get a tune if I wanted to run 24lb stuff, as that's my luck---I also don't want to spend any more $$$ on the motor than I have to at this point, but I know it's inevitable--I probably need to see if I can find a tuner guy here in the area and find out how much it costs to tune, cuz really I'm not happy about having to tear stuff apart at this point....

thanks for the tip, I'll try and call tomorrow....

[csutton7]

Wow, no luck at the pick and pull for a sensor, so then a guy on CL called me back so I went to go get his and of course it didn't have the sensor--talk about luck, bad luck that is, but he did have a JBA adjustable fuel pressure regulator, so I bought that. Maybe I'll put it on maybe I won't, but of course I need to buy a guage to use to adjust it. So I bought a 19lb sensor off of ebay, so now I'll wait for it to show up and do the swap and see what happens. Also bought some new plug wires and those hi-temp boot protectors so hopefully these won't burn up.

Another thing is I bought Summit Racing guages and Tach--the tach doesn't work right, the oil pressure pegs at over 80psi, water temp doesn't work, volt meter doesn't work---now that could be that there's 6 wires to each guage and when trying to tuck them in to place something came unplugged on the ones that don't work, so I've got something else to deal with in the future. But bottom line I'm not impressed at the moment and it's a bitch to get them installed with all the wires and no room to work when installing them. Maybe I'll build a false front to the dash in the future, but right now it's on back, back burner.

[EricsGreen98Tj]

Just read the whole thread and man you do some good work. That sucks about the engine running rich though...I had a 90 F150 with underdrive pulleys, cam, bored 30 over, larger injectors, head port, ect and I HAD to swap to MAF(Trucks were speed density) and everything to get it to idle right and NOT run so rich. My cousin works at a FORD garage so one of his buddy's did something to my computer to get everything to work together.

Have you went over to any of the 5.0 Mustang forums and posted your engine mods and ask them what they think? Some of those guys REALLY know their shit as do some of the guys in the FORD section on here....

[Heimaster80]

Originally Posted by csutton7

Thanks Oakie it sure feels good to drive it, but I need to get the thing to run right.
UPDATE:
I found 2 plug wires burned on the driver's side, which doesn't surprise me cuz of the stock 'stang headears & gt40p heads. You need to do some massaging on the driver's side stang headers(pass side no issues at all) to clear the boots on #5 and #8(I think this is right, somewhere in this build thread I think I have it spelled out), so we had to do some swapping of wires and parts to combat that for now. We got it timed or extremely close to it(using the explorer front cover and not getting a timing pointer and making your own makes it interesting). I got the pointer close when I made it, but it still misses and it runs so rich it isn't funny, so I've decided once the engine cools down to pull the 24lb injectors and put the 19lbers in and hope the MAF I have off a 94 stang will work, if not then I'll have to buy another MAF. Hopefully this will combat the miss and I'm pretty sure the running rich will be taken care of. Of course if I could find a 'puter that was tuned for 24lb stuff that would be the easiest, but even then it'd be a hit and miss, so 19lb stuff it will be.

I also changed out the steering cooler, so that I fit in better with the flatty crowd and wouldn't be made fun of when my back is turned. Really since I had a hose end that wouldn't seal I had to change that so why not do the cooler at the same time---pic below for proof>>>>>

Looks much better! Nice job, sounds like your having fun with the motor! Hang in there.....

~Travis

[csutton7]

well I couldn't have my willy being made fun of could I???!!!??!!!

yea the motor thing is ticking me off, but I've been doing lots of reading today and I think when I did the spark plug gap I gapped them to .054(explorer spec) and then when my buddy came over we changed it to .044(mustang spec) and with gt40p heads it looks like they need to be .054, so tomorrow when I get home guess what I'm doing---man wouldn't that be the kicker if that's what it was, but anyway I'll be set to drop down to 19lb stuff if need be---

[MrWillys]

Record your fuel pressure with Vacuum disconnected, and then increase it 2 lbs with your new fuel pressure regulator. Mass air cars respond well to this increase. Still seek spark map help!

[csutton7]

Eric--thanks for the kudo's--haven't posted on other forums yet, but after I get the spark plugs regapped and see how it runs and then put on the fuel pressure regulator and if I'm still having issues, that's one of my next moves---and of course I need to take MrWilly's advice also on his suggestions.....

[Mieser]

Yup, you get it 'done' and then the real work starts

I know exactly how that goes!

[csutton7]

ok I adjusted spark plugs to .054 and no change--idles better without so much lope, but as soon as you drive a block and half it starts to miss terribly when you give it any throttle at all and here's an odd thing when I pull the trigger on the timing light the engine loads and it's not just a little bit. I've never seen or heard of this happening, so I need to do a search on that---I hook it up at the mega fuse for the alternator since the battery is under the driver's seat...

I put on the adjustable fuel pressure regulator(Bosch unit), but I need to get a guage to adjust it, so tomorrow I'll see if I can get a guage on the way home---

so again here's the set up:
5.0 bored .030 over
9.5/1 compression I think
gt40p heads with 1.7 rockers
Ford "E" cam
cobra/explorer intake ported by tmoss
explorer front dress
EGR deleted and no smog stuff
RJM harness
MSD distributor
65mm BBK throttle body
75mm Granatelli MAF for 24lb injectors
and I think 24lb injectors--only reason I say I think is cuz now I'm doubting everything--I could of sworn they were blue, but they look greenish to me, but maybe it's the fluorscent lighting---I could see some #'s on the top of the injector, but only the last 3--one injector had 269 and another 271, but I don't know what that means---which means some more research

oh the fun continues......forgot to add the vac line to the FPR is teed into the pcv vac line, so I need to see if I have suction there and if not I'll have to rob some parts off of my other intake to get another vac port to run to the FPR....again I'm all ears....

[cmaje72]

Hey,
Sorry I don't get here on a daily basis but it looks like you are making a little progress. I forgot to ask what ECU are you running? A9L?

The common ford 24lb injectors that people use are blue on top. If yours are green or yellow I think those might be the 36lb ones.

Did you by any chance check to see if its throwing any codes?

[csutton7]

cmaje72::::I haven't checked for codes, I need to figure out how to do that --

the injectors are greenish/blue which points to 24lb'ers

I think the computer is a A9L although it may be a A9P---

somehow the night before or yesterday my ARB compressor got turned on and ran all day, so the battery was deader than a roadkill, it's been on the charger since last night, so hopefully it will come back to life, other wise I'll be a ticked off badger if I have to buy a new odyssey---I for the life of me don't see how it could've been on while I was working on it, as it makes enough noise to know that it's on, so I'm totally baffled.

I found this out when I went to turn it on to check the fuel pressure and only the dash lights would come on and nothing more---

I guess I will have to finally make a cover for the switches to keep this from happening in the future...

hopefully the 19lb MAF will come today, so if I can't make it run with the 24lb stuff I'm tearing into and slapping on 19lb stuff to see if it makes a difference---I don't really want to have to pay to have someone tune it or buy the Moates Quarterhorse stuff to tune it, but I will if I must and I'll most likely go with the Moates stuff, but even that will be $500 or so I think, but at least I will have it for future stuff.

[csutton7]

ok I got the adjustable fuel pressure on, but was only able to attempt the adjusting for about a minute as the jeep is in the garage and it fumes me out, plus it was 9:45pm and the jeep is just a tad loud at the moment---

I'm going to leave the guage on, so I can periodically check it. Hopefully I can take it out tomorrow and drive it and see what happens. I did have suction at the vac line, but I wonder if it's enough. I need to find my guage for that and test it to see what it's pulling, but I have no idea where I've stashed it at with all the moving around of stuff in the garage.

My 19lb MAF came so my fall back plan is ready to go. The saga continues......