not a build thread, but kind of is--just tryin to help others

[csutton7]

ok I'm building my '48, but there's really nothing I'm doing that probably hasn't been done, so this is more of thread to help guys if they decide to go the route I'm taking with a flatty---so I'm giving out info that I've learned/read so far here--pics may or may not come later....so here's how my willys was set up when I bought it:

oh yea I've never attempted such an undertaking as this, so it's been fun and frustrating, especially when I'm doing this 99.9% myself so far in my garage......

1948 cj2a stock drive train except 1971 302 v8, upgraded 11" brakes and upgraded steering(don't even recall what it had in it, but it wasn't stock--steered and stopped great though)---

what it's becoming: 4 link/3 link, 14" coilovers, stretched 12" in door, comp cut(cuz I wanted to 2 yrs ago when we cut it in half), 5.0 bored .030, e303 cam, dished pistons, gt40p heads with 1.7 rockers( USE of 1.7 ROCKERS requires triple checking clearances, so be careful), ported explorer intake, explorer front dress(2" less than mustang), 24lb injectors(changed to 19lb), MAF to match injectors, rjm harness, a9p computer, 160 amp rjm alternator, 65mm throttle body, zf5-42 5 spd tranny, atlas 4 spd 10:1, rear 9" big bearing, disc brakes, spool, 4340 axle shafts, front dana 60 hi-pin, ARB, 4340 shafts, reid knuckles, hi-steer, 39.5" iroks, gmc hydro-boost(ported by VANCO), pinto radiator I think w/ taurus fan, Hollister Road fan relays, Trail Gear full hydro steering with PSC pulley to match serp belt, PSC log style cooler and reservoir, zf5-42 out of a '88 f250, Atlas 4spd(10:1)----probably forgetting something, but you get the idea--I'll add later if I remember something--- 109.5" wb I think is where I may end up---front end yet to be placed.....23.5" belly

frame is 2x4x3/16" stock width 29.5"---nothing new here--but if I'd read more I'd have made it wider--some guys have gone 34" wide---now with that being said, the front end body has tabs that stick down and mount to the outside of the frame when stock and so do the fenders--so this needs to be thought about when going wider---other body mounts are pretty basic, except that after I had the motor and tranny and t-case in I needed to add 3.5" of body lift so that I wouldn't have a mountain range of a tranny hump ----so far this has been kind of a blessing as my rear coilover upper mount doesn't go through the body, but terminates at a 1/4" plate attached to 1.75 tubes right under the fender well and I mean right under(the body sits on the mounts)---later I'll bolt it to the roll cage using another pc of plate and short tube this will make a super stout coilover mount.....

ok with the ford explorer intake you can't stuff the motor back tight to the firewall due to the upper rear intake bolt--I'm about 2" from the firewall( from firewall to center of rear upper intake bolt is 3" and the flange at the cowl/hood is notched to get it this close)---this means you need the front dress off of an explorer----now I'm still waiting for my explorer fan to verify this will work, but help from Lloyd seems to point that it will---a taurus fan will not work unless you stretch the grill or hood 2-3"---or set the engine low--like 7" low so that you can set it back to the firewall so that you can remove that upper rear intake bolt---not an option if you ask me--

now if you get the explorer front dress, you need to get the timing cover, harmonic balancer, all the pulleys(water pump pulleys are non-existent it seems), brackets and pulleys at least---I can't stress this enough, especially the water pump pulley ---the timing pointer will need to be fabricated also--there's some for sale but I've yet to prove they will work for this mod---

the zf5-42 has a 31 spline output and takes a 164 tooth flywheel, so your starter needs to match--and it's 50 oz imbalance also, not the old 302 28 oz imbalance---the flywheel only bolts on one way, so if you're like me and hold it up there only to find it doesn't fit---it does you just have to keep rotating it....

PCV grommet is at the back of the lower intake---

Milodon deep oil pan is 10" deep so this puts you 3" deeper than stock, so don't buy one(don't ask how I know)

don't buy a hi-pressure oil pump---hi-volume is ok, but hi-pressure isn't ---

I'm using modified by me, cj7 pedals with the gmc hydro-boost---now I got lucky here---the nitrogen tank on the h-boost fits perfectly between the valve cover and upper intake with 1/2" clearance---I hadn't thought about this before hand, so I got lucky---I had to cut the cj7 pedal bracket down to 8.75" and added a 1/4" plate and 1.125" spacer back to make up for the throw on the hydro boost and zf5-42 clutch throws--in fact you may have to do some extra clearancing to get it up in there--I had to---- also I had to cut the pedals down so that I could get enough throw---I cut and hacked a few times before I got it--or I hope I got it---forget how much, but maybe 4" was hacked off--will update once I get back with measurements--

Your hydroboost unit needs to be high flowed to work with hydro-assist or full hydraulic steering--Vanco can do this for you or you can buy a unit from him... http://www.vancopbs.com/

headers are a different matter, especially for the gt40p heads--I don't recall everything I've read, but it's in the TOTW: 5.0 thread---I'm using some I had from somewhere--again got lucky that they fit, but I had to do some clearancing for # 6 & #8 plugs...these are stock mustang headers, no issues on passenger side

I used NOVAK motor mounts and I could only get the motor centered with the stock willys frame width....

the ford 9" pinion isn't centered on the axle---I didn't know this and am not sure if there will be u-joint issues or not--doubt there will be except maybe replacing them more often than perfectly centered pinions....

on my rear coilovers I ended up 6.5" to center off the outside of the frame and due to my stretch I had to hack out the wheel well supports, but since my mount is tight to the wheel well I've gained strength there vs losing...

oh yea on the frame I had to notch for the the atlas--like 3/4''---again a wider frame would've prevented this...

well that's about as far as I've gone for now--like I said the front axle still needs to torn into and slapped under the jeep and I've got concerns about front drive shaft and exhaust placement, but until I get the axle set under there I'm just not sure---the front coilover mounts and 3 link should be interesting also, due to the frame width, but again until I get it pushed under and set to ride height I've got no idea what I'm up against....

also I'm not sure what I'm doing for a fuel tank yet--I've got an RCI tank(30"w x 7"h x 17"w), but I'm not sure I'll use it---I've left the rear frame 8" longer than the body right now, so maybe I stretch the rear of the body also or put the fuel tank there and box it in and leave the body alone or cut the frame back and put the tank in the rear or have a custom tank built---will need to figure that out--- oh yea still need to wire it up---

RJM wire harness is the bomb also---

when you use the front dress off an explorer, make sure you ditch the fuel pump eccentric on the camshaft...

I was able to not stretch the hood to make everything work. What I did do is made some angles side plates that would angle the grill, so that the hood would still close on the top of the grill.

You need to pay special attention of where the steering box will mount, so before you cut the front frame rails to length make sure you have enough room to make everything fit. now one more thing---if you are planning on using a saginaw steering gear(may be the different with other steering gears, but all I have is saginaws) with a 3 link front with a frame built like mine(and many others without notches or bends for the axle to clear on full stuff) it looks like you should keep your bumper at least 21" from the center line of the axle---I'm at 17.5" and that's why I'm having these issues-- the front of the steering gear is going to sit tight to my bumper is what it looks like right now---



thanks to Lloyd and MDDimmick also for answering questions and providing info...

hope this helps guys in the future with their flatty builds....chris

[csutton7]

another thing I've encountered is the ford explorer alternator bolt holes are tapered or they seem to be and I couldn't find the bolts--the thread is 3/8 x16, but the hole through the alternator is 1/2" at the top----I ended up getting some steel bushings that were 3/8" hole x 1/2" x 1.25" long ---I had to cut about 1/4" off of one, but the others got sucked home with the 3/8" bolt---

[csutton7]

ok--the explorer mechanical fan won't work--2 things are causing problems-

first it's to close to the radiator--1/8" to a 1/4" clearance and I don't feel good about that clearance...

the other issue is the fan blades will hit the lower radiator outlet, so that pretty much kills me....

so my solution is to slant the grill and use the taurus electric fan---it looks like I can use the top bolts in the grill and then swing the bottom out 3.5"--I'll build spacer to make up the space....this way I won't have to extend the fenders or hood---

[csutton7]

for some reason I can't get the pics to post--so here's a link to a bunch of them--some are repeats, just in case, the first one didn't turn out---hopefully the link works:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6743548...7627671355892/

[1946CJ2]

looks good, keep up the work! I clamped my frame similar to yours also, when I was fabbing it up.

[csutton7]

thanks.....how's your build coming--you know we are both copying rckme52's flatty--I saw that jeep a ton when I had all my 48 parts down at his brother's shop while working on my cj7---

edit--forgot to say I copied your clamping as you're ahead of me on the build......chris

[csutton7]

here's some pics showing the front 3 link I'm building--still not sure about the steering linkage if I go ram assist(which is what I'm hoping for)--it's the next thing I need to figure out along with the coilover mounts, but the panhard mount on the frame is just tacked on---I did adust the upper bar to get the caster adjusted better, so don't hammer me on that--chris

[csutton7]

here's one more pic of the front 3 link--

also some pics of the 2x4x3/16 frame build.....chris

[csutton7]

more pics---engine, showing exhaust clearance, pedals and atlas notch...

[csutton7]

4 link build pics

[csutton7]

some more 4 link and one stretch pic

[csutton7]

stretch patch pics and one showing the taurus fan clearance

[csutton7]

well I was starting on the Reid knuckle install only to get knee-capped cuz I need the spindle studs---the old ones that I removed are toast, in fact I had to cut one off to get the old spindle off----so lesson learned here when buying new knuckles ask what other parts may be needed or are not included----hopefully NAPA will have them tomorrow and I can get them installed tomorrow, then I can scope out what I have to do for steering.....chris

[TSwiss]

Nice build, the fabrication looks great.

I am planning on using a ford explorer front dress as well. Are you planning on getting the harmonic balancer rebuilt, or using it as is?

I have heard of some guys using used balancers, the rubber failing, and the engine coming apart. Usually drag strip guys though.

[csutton7]

tswiss----thanks----

I got the balancer off of ebay and it looked pretty new to be honest, so I slapped it on--torqued to 130 ft lbs if I remember correctly--this torque is different than the mustangs...

chris

[1946CJ2]

Originally Posted by csutton7

thanks.....how's your build coming--you know we are both copying rckme52's flatty--I saw that jeep a ton when I had all my 48 parts down at his brother's shop while working on my cj7---

edit--forgot to say I copied your clamping as you're ahead of me on the build......chris

Rckme52 helped me out alot, he is a great guy. My build has been on hold for a little while. I have been very busy (we sold our house, moved to a rent house, while we where trying to buy a short sale house, then we bought the short sale house, and had to do some repair work and move into it). Moving sucks, but things are slowing down now and after deer season I should be able to start working on it again.

[1946CJ2]

Maybe once we get are builds done, we could all get together on a run. I live up hwy 4 in Murphys, about 30 miles from slick rock area.

[csutton7]

yea for sure we will get together, problem may be though Ron is selling or trying to sell his flatty, so he may not be there---I'm hoping he won't have to sell it, but only time will tell----

well I've hit front 3 link issues---I put the REID knuckles on and the panhard/steering links are going to hit each other---one issue is I have to bend the panhard bracket on the passenger side of axle, so that the tie rod won't hit at full turn---this isn't a biggie and I thought I may have to, but I may have to put a bend in the panhard bar--we shall see

other issue is tie rod hitting panhard bar & bracket on the driver's side when driver's side axle goes into compression---this one is a little more of an issue cuz I'm not sure where I can move it ---I'm going to have to hang the steering box(with some rope or bungies or ???) and see what I am able to do with the panhard, tie rod and drag link if I'm going to have ram assist steering---otherwise it will have to be full hydro----

so tomorrow I will have to stare at things and see what I can do---

I'll post some pics shortly--using bungie cords to simulate drag link and tie rod

[csutton7]

here's the pics, but just showing bungies when knuckles are straight forward--looks like I'll have to take some better pics and close ups showing the issues---black bungie is tie rod and orange is drag link......you can just see the top of the panhard axle bracket in the first pic---second pic you can see the bungies better----

[ROXROES]

I'd move the frame mount back 3-4", then put a small 5-8* bend in the panhard and kit it around the pig and back into the axle.

The tie rods bolt to the bottom of the arm right? So you'll have 1.5" more clearance than what you have with that bungee.

[csutton7]

tie rod can bolt on top or bottom of the high steer arms and I can also bolt it to the stock location, (although that defeats the purpose of the hi-steer)---problem may be with moving the mount back is it may hit the pig on compression---so today if I have time I have to rig up some stuff to get it to compress and stay in position(like panhard was attached) so I can see what I can do or can't do---

one thing I may do is angle the panhard mount more outside instead of 100% vertical off the frame----if I do that and move it back and bend the panhard bar and bend the panhard axle mount that may do it----

also there's notching the frame, but I don't want to do it, but I may have to if all else fails....

80's ford dana 60 mixed with willys frame makes things interesting, also not thinking about turning the knuckles and checking tie rod location doesn't help either.....live and learn.....

[csutton7]

roxroes--are you saying bend the panhard around the front?? after rereading your post I think that's what you mean, thus that may work if I can figure out what to do on the axle mount--you'll see what I mean with the following pics---also your suggestion of mounting tie rod to bottom of high steer may be a winner, but I still need to flex it first before I know...

so I beat the panhard axle mount over and tacked together a tie rod to see what I would need to do---here's some pics of where I stopped tonight--last pic shows 4 3/4" clear from top of tie-rod to bottom of frame--my shock travel is 5" stuff and 9" droop--gonna be close, but I can space it down a little----chris

[ROXROES]

Yes, keep the panhard more parallel to the axle, frame mount inside of the steering, and kick it around the pig.

Similar to this one I did on a 4runner:

[csutton7]

thanks and thanks for the pic--of course I'm opposite of this--frame mount and pig are on both side, but I can still bend it and go around it and I think if I lay the mount out flatter I won't have to notch the frame for full stuff----

my other issue(s) is now the axle mount---I pounded the thing so that it is out of the way, but it still kisses the tie rod ever so lightly(you see it in pic #3 the best in my last post) exactly where I'll have a bolt head(so I need 5/8" more)--basically I bent it over so much that the top hole on the front ear now lines up with the 2nd hole of the rear ear!!!! But, always a frickin' but, I can't bend it(the rear ear) anymore as it is going to be extremely close to the coil-over as it is now and it may be to close(need to work on coilover mount today/this weekend) ---also upon bending the axle mount I'll have to make my own mis-alignment for the heim as the distance between the ears is smaller---but really it's all a moot point as there's no room for the panhard in this location with the tie-rod at high steer----

so now I either put tie rod down at stock location, bend the axle mount back and go from there----seems like this or going full hydro will be my only options---I'll have to stare at it some more to be sure I can't put the panhard somewhere else, but really I don't think I have many options if I want to keep the tie rod up at hi-steer ---

lesson learned(which I just read elsewhere also, of course you always come across how to do things after you're into it and never when you are doing pre-searching)---:::

IS PUT STEERING COMPONENTS ON BEFORE PANHARD PLACEMENT!!!!

[csutton7]

ROXROES--was just looking at your build thread and you are running your ram behind the axle--so if I enough room to clear the hi-pin pig and my upper link arm(may have to move it up one bolt hole at the axle and check full stuff clearance and hope I don't get some crappy anti-dive stuff going on) and buy(don't really want to, but you have to do what you have to do) different hi-steer arms I may be able to run the tie rod behind the axle---so thanks again for providing the pics and providing ideas, going down to look at this right now----chris